Something new to make life easier
11-25-2011, 07:57 PM
#2
bit of a waste of time don't you think? if people are going to pre goop tyres at home, then a cheaper option would be to buy compound in baulk, and chuck it into a bucket then just leave the tyres in there to soak for as god damn long as you think is neccessary
These are the things that are ruining the hobby..the pedantic, almost obsessive nature some people go to to get more speed.
..and no, it isn't part of the competittion. These sort of things price the average punter out of the game. if the learning curve to become quick in a hobby is so steep, people won't bother to hang around when they realise there are people who go to these lengths and these costs to get an extra tenth.
even the top echelons of racing like f1 have certain parameters in place to keep the slower guys somehow partially in the game. No one likes a two horse race, be it in f1, rc or any other motorsport.
These are the things that are ruining the hobby..the pedantic, almost obsessive nature some people go to to get more speed.
..and no, it isn't part of the competittion. These sort of things price the average punter out of the game. if the learning curve to become quick in a hobby is so steep, people won't bother to hang around when they realise there are people who go to these lengths and these costs to get an extra tenth.
even the top echelons of racing like f1 have certain parameters in place to keep the slower guys somehow partially in the game. No one likes a two horse race, be it in f1, rc or any other motorsport.
11-25-2011, 09:19 PM
#3
Sorry, in my books as dumbest RC device ever, at a time where doping is so controversial, and illegal in so many places, and Cap comes out with that?.
They loose a bit of respect from me for coming out with a device that basically makes it a little easier to cheat more effectively.
They loose a bit of respect from me for coming out with a device that basically makes it a little easier to cheat more effectively.
11-25-2011, 09:25 PM
#4
Tech Adept
Sorry, in my books as dumbest RC device ever, at a time where doping is so controversial, and illegal in so many places, and Cap comes out with that?.
They loose a bit of respect from me for coming out with a device that basically makes it a little easier to cheat more effectively.
They loose a bit of respect from me for coming out with a device that basically makes it a little easier to cheat more effectively.
in the 2011 WC, traction compound is banned
cheater device??
11-26-2011, 12:05 AM
#5
I think additives are now legal in Italy (largest market of onroad nitro racing) and the European federation has just issued a statement allowing the use of additives. In this respect it makes sense for manufacturers to introduce such additive applying assisting devices.
Soaking all your tyres in a bucket of additive will damage the adhesive glue and the tyres will come off the rims during racing.
Soaking all your tyres in a bucket of additive will damage the adhesive glue and the tyres will come off the rims during racing.
11-26-2011, 02:03 AM
#6
I think additives are now legal in Italy (largest market of onroad nitro racing) and the European federation has just issued a statement allowing the use of additives. In this respect it makes sense for manufacturers to introduce such additive applying assisting devices.
Soaking all your tyres in a bucket of additive will damage the adhesive glue and the tyres will come off the rims during racing.
Soaking all your tyres in a bucket of additive will damage the adhesive glue and the tyres will come off the rims during racing.
Will this device get the compound all the way through the foam? If compound throughout the foam is not required or not desired, then isn't it easier to goop the foam with the tyres mounted on the car?
in this case the best option, and cheaper option is to goop, apply tyre warmers then re goop and apply warmers if required.
this device just adds an extra baulky item into the mix, and doesn't do the part that's most important, which is cooking the compound into the foam.
11-26-2011, 02:12 AM
#7
that's what people do currently. Some people soak the foam in the additive. It was mentioned in the traction compound on foams thread a few months ago.
Will this device get the compound all the way through the foam? If compound throughout the foam is not required or not desired, then isn't it easier to goop the foam with the tyres mounted on the car?
in this case the best option, and cheaper option is to goop, apply tyre warmers then re goop and apply warmers if required.
this device just adds an extra baulky item into the mix, and doesn't do the part that's most important, which is cooking the compound into the foam.
Will this device get the compound all the way through the foam? If compound throughout the foam is not required or not desired, then isn't it easier to goop the foam with the tyres mounted on the car?
in this case the best option, and cheaper option is to goop, apply tyre warmers then re goop and apply warmers if required.
this device just adds an extra baulky item into the mix, and doesn't do the part that's most important, which is cooking the compound into the foam.
| + YouTube Video | |
11-26-2011, 02:51 AM
#8
Just got info from tire manufacturer
Tire sauce causes problem with the glue, tire wear is more important and the effects lasts only a few minutes on the track!!
In other words, for normal drivers like me that sucks!!
Tire sauce causes problem with the glue, tire wear is more important and the effects lasts only a few minutes on the track!!
In other words, for normal drivers like me that sucks!!
11-26-2011, 04:28 AM
#9
this machine looks quite silly. can't you just mount the tyres on the car and spin the wheel with a wheel wrench whilst applying the goop...like electric racers do?
for the compound to work properly you need to cook the compound onto the tyre. the heat evaporates the liquid and leaves the oil on and in the foam. it is the oil and the resulting change to the structure of the foam that causes grip, not the wet liquid or humid tyre.
Also, if we are going to say that different compounds of additive are needed for each track (like some people have already reported) then i think the entire issue of "compounds" will become ridiculous.
if people want to use compounds but do not want the problem of chemicals then why don't we just use sun screen lotion? rub it in with the hands, and bake it on with tyre warmers. no harsh chemicals, and it works 95% the same as "high tech" chemicals.
I just find this whole thing silly, costly, and a little obsessive. The hobby turns into bench work more than track time
11-26-2011, 05:41 AM
#10
It doedn't just turn the tyres. It compresses them against each other and the compression is adjustable. This in turn injects the additive further deeper into the foam.
Seriously, give some credit to the manufacturers. They 've thought about it before producing it.
Seriously, give some credit to the manufacturers. They 've thought about it before producing it.
11-26-2011, 06:33 AM
#11
TomB seems to be right, even with this device you steel need to warm your tires ŕ 40°C...
11-26-2011, 06:47 AM
#12
well... you can put additives on the tyres with a brush and them handle then simply by the hands. Yeah it's true that if you have to do a lot of sets and you want to do a good work... in the end your hands will struggle :-P
But the biggest problem is how to dry them. You can do this by a paper but you will take out some additive from the sponge... or....you can do it by warming the wheels.
...so ..I think the only necessary thing to make additive work best are the electric blankets.
..PS:the cost of this Cap Tyre Activator here is around 200€ .... !!!
11-26-2011, 06:55 AM
#13
I've did some extensive testing with tire saucing before the EC-A because I had reasons to believe they might already allow it during the event.
The heating of the tire is more important if you don't want anyone to find out you are using sauce. If it's legal you can just wipe them off before you are going to drive.
It doesn't make a difference in terms of performance.
The saucing has effect right until the last bit of foam left on the rim.
In the beginning I was around 0,5 seconds a lap quicker and in the end 0,2.
Others has tested with sauce as well but didn't came even near the results I achieved.
For normal drivers it could level out the playing field. The sauced tires make so much traction you don't necessarily have to follow the race line, keep it on the black line. Even if you are besides the racing line the car will still turn in and you can hit the accelerator hard without spinning out.
One of the club drivers also tried the set and he became much more consistent because he didn't have to be on the grip line all the time which is just 0,5m wide at my home track.
About the difficulties of applying the sauce, I got the best results when I applied it two weeks in advance. I rubbed it in with my hands and then packed the tires in cling film and stored them in a vacuum box.
11-26-2011, 07:11 AM
#14
I'm sorry but all if that isn't true.
I've did some extensive testing with tire saucing before the EC-A because I had reasons to believe they might already allow it during the event.
The heating of the tire is more important if you don't want anyone to find out you are using sauce. If it's legal you can just wipe them off before you are going to drive.
It doesn't make a difference in terms of performance.
The saucing has effect right until the last bit of foam left on the rim.
In the beginning I was around 0,5 seconds a lap quicker and in the end 0,2.
Others has tested with sauce as well but didn't came even near the results I achieved.
For normal drivers it could level out the playing field. The sauced tires make so much traction you don't necessarily have to follow the race line, keep it on the black line. Even if you are besides the racing line the car will still turn in and you can hit the accelerator hard without spinning out.
One of the club drivers also tried the set and he became much more consistent because he didn't have to be on the grip line all the time which is just 0,5m wide at my home track.
About the difficulties of applying the sauce, I got the best results when I applied it two weeks in advance. I rubbed it in with my hands and then packed the tires in cling film and stored them in a vacuum box.
I've did some extensive testing with tire saucing before the EC-A because I had reasons to believe they might already allow it during the event.
The heating of the tire is more important if you don't want anyone to find out you are using sauce. If it's legal you can just wipe them off before you are going to drive.
It doesn't make a difference in terms of performance.
The saucing has effect right until the last bit of foam left on the rim.
In the beginning I was around 0,5 seconds a lap quicker and in the end 0,2.
Others has tested with sauce as well but didn't came even near the results I achieved.
For normal drivers it could level out the playing field. The sauced tires make so much traction you don't necessarily have to follow the race line, keep it on the black line. Even if you are besides the racing line the car will still turn in and you can hit the accelerator hard without spinning out.
One of the club drivers also tried the set and he became much more consistent because he didn't have to be on the grip line all the time which is just 0,5m wide at my home track.
About the difficulties of applying the sauce, I got the best results when I applied it two weeks in advance. I rubbed it in with my hands and then packed the tires in cling film and stored them in a vacuum box.
the reason tyres perform best when gooped a while before use is because the process of drying out means they grip up more. sure you can run them sort of wet, but a wet or damp tyre won't be as good as a tyre properly prepared and totally dryed out/cured. This is why the cooking process works.
the cooking process also allows the glue ont he foam to re set..if for some reason the foam glue does become soft, when you cook it, or leave it to dry over a week or so this allows the glue between the foam and rim to re set.
does the capricorn device have an adjustment for foams cut on an angle? I hope it does otherwise it means that it will only work with tourer rims cut at zero degrees.
i'm not saying that the product is crap, all i'm saying is it seems silyl and a waste of money. Sure it can be designed very well, but i don't see the point in it when a bottle of goop, a tyre wrench and some pressure applied to the bottle on the tyre does a similar job. Personally i found that oil of winter green mixed with sunscreen lotion and methelated spirits works good as a traction compound. the metho opens up the cells of the foam, lets the compound seep into the foam better and evaporates easily with warmers. it can be applied on the tyre with a bottle with a dabber at the end, and you don't need a silly tool that costs the price of a set of tyre warmers but doesn't cook the compound into the foam.
11-28-2011, 03:05 PM
#15
Tech Apprentice
Sorry, in my books as dumbest RC device ever, at a time where doping is so controversial, and illegal in so many places, and Cap comes out with that?.
They loose a bit of respect from me for coming out with a device that basically makes it a little easier to cheat more effectively.
They loose a bit of respect from me for coming out with a device that basically makes it a little easier to cheat more effectively.
The point is that Capricorn is making this for the Italian competitors, since they allow additives in tires in the Italian Championship since the beggining of the year. Not cheating.
Best regards
Luís