New Efra rules
#391
At the last two A Euros, all the top drivers had a third man that did nothing but manage their tyres.
Saucing them at the right time, with the right stuff at the right temperature.....
THAT's what they want to get rid of, plus the €400 applicators you need nowadays to get the sauce working.
Robert Pietsch used 4 sets of tyres in the final of the Euro A Champs this year.
That's a € 100 flat out just for tyres in a final, if you have to pay for them.
Good stuff, ain't it?
Secondly, you'd have to buy your tyres before tha race anyways, so what's the difference.
Now you even have the luxury to only buy at the track what you really need.
#392
Sorry to disagree, but they are finally getting it, because the idiocy of a few has been killing nitro onroad over here for quite a while.
We had the lowest turnouts in Euro Champs in history last year because of all that tyre saucing crap that nobody, but the Italians wanted.
The only one that crying are the team drivers and they are not important.
Important are the people who pay for their stuff themselves.
We had the lowest turnouts in Euro Champs in history last year because of all that tyre saucing crap that nobody, but the Italians wanted.
The only one that crying are the team drivers and they are not important.
Important are the people who pay for their stuff themselves.
Think before you talk, would you?
At the last two A Euros, all the top drivers had a third man that did nothing but manage their tyres.
Saucing them at the right time, with the right stuff at the right temperature.....
THAT's what they want to get rid of, plus the €400 applicators you need nowadays to get the sauce working.
Robert Pietsch used 4 sets of tyres in the final of the Euro A Champs this year.
That's a € 100 flat out just for tyres in a final, if you have to pay for them.
At the last two A Euros, all the top drivers had a third man that did nothing but manage their tyres.
Saucing them at the right time, with the right stuff at the right temperature.....
THAT's what they want to get rid of, plus the €400 applicators you need nowadays to get the sauce working.
Robert Pietsch used 4 sets of tyres in the final of the Euro A Champs this year.
That's a € 100 flat out just for tyres in a final, if you have to pay for them.
But not all think the same, several drivers think saucing is the only way to keep it simple and the choice of what tire and saucing free.
#393
Let me remind you that saucing is started at the pro's and now you are telling that they do not want it while they were using it in secret for years? Regarding the applicators, they have insane prices and can be made much cheaper.
But not all think the same, several drivers think saucing is the only way to keep it simple and the choice of what tire and saucing free.
But not all think the same, several drivers think saucing is the only way to keep it simple and the choice of what tire and saucing free.
Don't you get it? As soon as everybody uses it, it doesn't give the average racer an advantage. It's just one more thing to worry about and spend money on.
It will still give the pro's an advantage, because they'll always be the first to know what's new and how it works, while the regular guy has to find out by trial and error and pay for it...
#394
I think this is great news, especially the handout tires. Think i have to get a NitroTourer again
/ Roland Strom
/ Roland Strom
#395
I do not like saucing too but if they are the rules I go ahead with it and I have made it as cheap as possible. I do know that the only way to avoid it is a hand out tire and to me personal I doubt it is the right choice although I know it is well used in the electric TC. 1 set of tires per race or 5 sets tires per race is a difference. Not only with the investment on a tight budget but also the amount of the needed 300 sets per race.
And be fair that arround the world saucing in the 1/8 is a known thing and with electrics it is a standard (except last WC).
The problem is that the control tire does need extra hands, hands that are difficult to find today. Not only the hands but also the organisation to get them like who will and can deliver them in the most fair way (not giving it to one supplier who is anxious to deliver them for all races) I can imagine that in large countries with large suppliers like Germany, France and Italy it is easy to make such a deal, in Holland some efford is needed to get them to the track whith the chance they are not on time or not delivered at all.
And be fair that arround the world saucing in the 1/8 is a known thing and with electrics it is a standard (except last WC).
The problem is that the control tire does need extra hands, hands that are difficult to find today. Not only the hands but also the organisation to get them like who will and can deliver them in the most fair way (not giving it to one supplier who is anxious to deliver them for all races) I can imagine that in large countries with large suppliers like Germany, France and Italy it is easy to make such a deal, in Holland some efford is needed to get them to the track whith the chance they are not on time or not delivered at all.
#396
Tech Apprentice
This is what was approved in 03/11/2012 EFRA meeting
1/8 Scale
weight- 2400g
16% nitro
Back to 9mm venturi
5 minutes qualifying (with or without refueling - drivers choice)
Controled tires in EFRA events (GP´s and Euros)
1/10 Scale
Weight - 1650g (after the 1550g aproved last year changed again with efects next year)
5 minutes qualifying (with or without refueling - drivers choice)
Controled tires in EFRA events (GP´s and Euros)
weight- 2400g
16% nitro
Back to 9mm venturi
5 minutes qualifying (with or without refueling - drivers choice)
Controled tires in EFRA events (GP´s and Euros)
1/10 Scale
Weight - 1650g (after the 1550g aproved last year changed again with efects next year)
5 minutes qualifying (with or without refueling - drivers choice)
Controled tires in EFRA events (GP´s and Euros)
#397
#398
Tech Apprentice
This is also in the minute of the EFRA meeting:
France: how about GP ad tires. Treatment is not allowed so a Controlled tire needs to be considered for these races if possible.
#399
Considered...... as was mentioned at the AGM it is difficult to determ the amout of racers on a GP to order tires at the right time. An option mentioned was that the organiser could do something with a local supplier, it seems every one can bring their own tires and the organiser need to check them on treatment.
There is also no rule/option made what to do with rain....
There is also no rule/option made what to do with rain....
#400
Tech Regular
iTrader: (2)
Yes I can and I do and no, that's not what I'm seeing here.
You really seem to love your tyre sauce, don't you?
Don't you get it? As soon as everybody uses it, it doesn't give the average racer an advantage. It's just one more thing to worry about and spend money on.
It will still give the pro's an advantage, because they'll always be the first to know what's new and how it works, while the regular guy has to find out by trial and error and pay for it...
You really seem to love your tyre sauce, don't you?
Don't you get it? As soon as everybody uses it, it doesn't give the average racer an advantage. It's just one more thing to worry about and spend money on.
It will still give the pro's an advantage, because they'll always be the first to know what's new and how it works, while the regular guy has to find out by trial and error and pay for it...
the pro's will always have advantage's that the average racer will not, as for me here in the states i can only hope that foolishness will stay on that side of the pond
Last edited by michael 1; 11-05-2012 at 06:57 AM. Reason: add
#401
The thing is that this tire rule will not solve problems for club races nor for National Championship! I assure you in France I doubt we will have handout tire!
So we will probably still have drivers using sauce, whether it's legal or not!
So we will probably still have drivers using sauce, whether it's legal or not!
#402
Tech Master
iTrader: (2)
Think before you talk, would you?
At the last two A Euros, all the top drivers had a third man that did nothing but manage their tyres.
Saucing them at the right time, with the right stuff at the right temperature.....
THAT's what they want to get rid of, plus the €400 applicators you need nowadays to get the sauce working.
Robert Pietsch used 4 sets of tyres in the final of the Euro A Champs this year.
That's a € 100 flat out just for tyres in a final, if you have to pay for them.
Good stuff, ain't it?
Secondly, you'd have to buy your tyres before tha race anyways, so what's the difference.
Now you even have the luxury to only buy at the track what you really need.
At the last two A Euros, all the top drivers had a third man that did nothing but manage their tyres.
Saucing them at the right time, with the right stuff at the right temperature.....
THAT's what they want to get rid of, plus the €400 applicators you need nowadays to get the sauce working.
Robert Pietsch used 4 sets of tyres in the final of the Euro A Champs this year.
That's a € 100 flat out just for tyres in a final, if you have to pay for them.
Good stuff, ain't it?
Secondly, you'd have to buy your tyres before tha race anyways, so what's the difference.
Now you even have the luxury to only buy at the track what you really need.
At the last two A Euros, all the top drivers had a third man that did nothing but manage their tyres.
Saucing them at the right time, with the right stuff at the right temperature.....
Saucing them at the right time, with the right stuff at the right temperature.....
The fastest driver of the event, Jilles, was pitting at the same table as me.
He applied it 30 minutes in advance, didn't change a thing all week.
Received one type of additive, didn't try another type. Also there were only two types used, MR33 and Capricorn.
For me it also was a lot easier to be competitive, this year I was 0,3 seconds down on the fastest guys compared to 0,8 seconds last year in Ettlingen where we also had a form of handout tires. This was a complete nightmare.
THAT's what they want to get rid of, plus the €400 applicators you need nowadays to get the sauce working.
The guy from the vacuum thing also had a stand at the track. He tried to look very important, mixing various products, but no one visited his stand. It looked quite pathetic.
Robert Pietsch used 4 sets of tyres in the final of the Euro A Champs this year.
That's a € 100 flat out just for tyres in a final, if you have to pay for them.
That's a € 100 flat out just for tyres in a final, if you have to pay for them.
Now you even have the luxury to only buy at the track what you really need.
Also the shores chosen for 1/10 amaze me a bit, all of the current cars work better with a bigger split, 35/40 for example. Also this is much better to even out the wear. Also the big size in qualifying will cause a lot of problems with traction roll in 1/10.
I think the gap between the payed drivers and the privateers will be bigger again in 2013 because of the rules.
I will compete at the EC B 1/10 in Gubbio to try the new rules. If I don't like it I will probably completely quit nitro and fully focus on electric and the ETS series.
#403
Tech Elite
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Landsborough, Queensland, Australia.
Posts: 2,142
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
I think the gap between the payed drivers and the privateers will be bigger again in 2013 because of the rules.
I will compete at the EC B 1/10 in Gubbio to try the new rules. If I don't like it I will probably completely quit nitro and fully focus on electric and the ETS series.
But I actually also have concerns about tire saucing. Didn't Michael Salven say something like that you had to go out with 59mm rear tires in 10th scale to be competitive under the conditions at the Euros in a Youtube interview? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkgeSblOp-Q It was probably only one off, but I wouldn't be too happy with wasting all that foam to stay competitive.
It's a very difficult issue; there is no possible way for EFRA to be right and come up with a solution that won't cause problems or disatisfaction in some way.
Kindest regards,
Lars
#404
Making rules is always a war between 2 or more ways of thinking.....The funny thing is that the majority of the Dutch EFRA drivers were against the control tire so there must be more I think.
The only interesting thing to see is how well the top 30 EFRA ranking will be doing with this setup. Can they really go fast as well or were some of them only fast due (ilegal) tire treatment?
On the other hand if they do not come you will never know but I think the many other sponsors they have could force them to go.
The only interesting thing to see is how well the top 30 EFRA ranking will be doing with this setup. Can they really go fast as well or were some of them only fast due (ilegal) tire treatment?
On the other hand if they do not come you will never know but I think the many other sponsors they have could force them to go.
#405
Are the control tires going to be handed out in the staging area? If not people will still cheat with additives. Some work well 15-30 minutes after application.
I also notice if you do not sauce on a track where some are, you will slide all over the place.
I also notice if you do not sauce on a track where some are, you will slide all over the place.