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Old 04-29-2014, 10:32 PM   #466
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What are your droop settings?
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Old 04-30-2014, 03:13 AM   #467
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What are your droop settings?
4 rear and 0 front

I will also lower the roll center, from the lower hinges I'm on B (A Being the lowest) but for a bumby track it's not recommended to have a low roll center right?
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Old 04-30-2014, 04:14 AM   #468
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4 rear and 0 front

I will also lower the roll center, from the lower hinges I'm on B (A Being the lowest) but for a bumby track it's not recommended to have a low roll center right?
You can try:

  • 1 front and 3 in the rear
  • Raise roll center for front and rear. Use Top inside hole
  • Don't use shims to rear hub or if you don't use try 2mm
  • Rear low roll center user from the bottom hole 1 position up.
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Old 04-30-2014, 04:20 AM   #469
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John C what type of o-ring are you using in the bottom shock cap?
if using the stock x-type replace it for a standard o-ring
The version 1 Big Bore shocks that I have came with the traditional O-rings, plastic collar, and a wire c-clip to hold everything in place. I rebuilt my shocks last night and only managed to build 2 correctly after multiple tries. I've built a quite a number of different shocks in my day and this has to be one of the more difficult ones to get right. I have some Tamiya TRF blue O-rings that I'm going to try tonight.
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Old 04-30-2014, 05:48 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by speed6 View Post
The gasket will have to replaced once opened because of the liquid gasket right, can't i try use high temp grease?

I fasten evenly and i also do a crosswise pattern and also check for any oil inside the holes.

One last thing my car really suffered this weekend, rear was loosing to much grip going off power into a turn especially in the sweeper, tried lowering the rear shocks, increase rear town in, increased rear camber, harder front sway bars, 1 step harder springs up front (track had extremely low grip), Xray and Mugen also suffered but not as much as i did. i ran big bore but i always suspected that the Capricorn car suffers to much on low grip surfaces, lets also say the good things as on high grip the car is extremely nice to drive but i get pissed when i see xray drivers leave the same setup and car is still a bit better than mine after all the adjustment i did. Kindly enlighten me
No, you can just open it and close it again without having to reapply the liquid sealant. It sticks to the O-ring, basically adding material so the O-ring fills up all the gaps between the two halves.

Regarding the setup, if you change all those things and the car's handling doesn't change a lot there is either something wrong mechanically or the base setup simply isn't good.

Personally for very low grip I think the normal shocks are better, 550cst with 3 holes and red springs should always be a good base.
For the big bore shocks I run 450cst with 3x1.0 hole pistons, and 3.4 springs all around. This also works really well, car creates a good amount of grip.
The high # of holes together with thick oil only works with additive or high traction.

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Originally Posted by John.C View Post
I ran my C02 Black Edition (original 2013 version) for the first time this past weekend. Overall, the car performed well and held up great. I managed to Q6 in the amain and had good pace throughout the day. In Q3 and the main I struggled with my new motor and couldn't get the results that I was hoping for. I finished the main but had numerous flameouts which ended any chance of a good finish.

I made the following observations while working on my car.

1) All 4 pivot balls were bent after minor contact with the barrier. We race on a parking lot with a wood board/PVC style barrier system. I'll admit that this system is tough on cars but I really hope that the titanium pivot balls hold up better than the stock steel pivot balls.

2) Very early into the day the shocks developed air bubbles and required a rebuild. I'll need to address this quickly or I'm looking at rebuilding these shocks (version 1 Big Bores) after every run. The problem could be in the bottom end, a combination of using different o-rings and adding spacers to better seal that area may work. Any input and/or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

I'm looking forward to my next outing with this car. Racing nitro on-road is intoxicating, its much more exciting than electric touring.
Like everything else on the car, the pivotballs are designed to be as light as possible. This also makes them a bit more vulnerable to big crashes.
If you want to upgrade to stronger pivotballs I would suggest getting the Xray NT1 ones. These are the strongest you can get, the Capricorn Ti ones are also good but if you bent one of those it's pricey.

New shocks will always develop air within their first run, everything needs to settle, and there might be still some air trapped because of the new build.
I bleed my shocks before every practice day because it's part of my setup routine but most of the time either none has air in it or and sometimes only one of the rear shocks a little bit. During the day I never have to rebuild them.
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Old 04-30-2014, 05:58 PM   #471
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Originally Posted by John.C View Post
The version 1 Big Bore shocks that I have came with the traditional O-rings, plastic collar, and a wire c-clip to hold everything in place. I rebuilt my shocks last night and only managed to build 2 correctly after multiple tries. I've built a quite a number of different shocks in my day and this has to be one of the more difficult ones to get right. I have some Tamiya TRF blue O-rings that I'm going to try tonight.
Completely disassemble the shock and the check the following:

-Take the plastic shaft guide and slide it over the shaft. This should go completely smooth with the least amount of play possible. Sometimes it's a bit too tight causing the shock to bind up. If this the case you can use a 3mm reamer to increase the inner diameter a bit.
-Take the shock shaft assembled with the shock piston and insert it into the shock housing the other way around, shock piston side first. Make sure the piston can move smoothly through the housing without binding. If you feel it binds a little use some 400 and 1000 grit sandpaper to slightly decrease the piston outer diameter.

Most of the time the shock's O-ring assembly fits well, good balance of O-ring compression and smooth movement of the shock shaft.
When I'm sure the two things listed above are ok, I build all the shocks without oil and push them together to find the one which is the smoothest. If there is a noticeable difference between the shocks I will start to sand down the plastic shaft guide to get less O-ring compression on the shocks which have the most amount of stiction.

Tamiya O-rings fit as well.
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Old 04-30-2014, 11:22 PM   #472
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No, you can just open it and close it again without having to reapply the liquid sealant. It sticks to the O-ring, basically adding material so the O-ring fills up all the gaps between the two halves.

Regarding the setup, if you change all those things and the car's handling doesn't change a lot there is either something wrong mechanically or the base setup simply isn't good.

Personally for very low grip I think the normal shocks are better, 550cst with 3 holes and red springs should always be a good base.
For the big bore shocks I run 450cst with 3x1.0 hole pistons, and 3.4 springs all around. This also works really well, car creates a good amount of grip.
The high # of holes together with thick oil only works with additive or high traction.



Like everything else on the car, the pivotballs are designed to be as light as possible. This also makes them a bit more vulnerable to big crashes.
If you want to upgrade to stronger pivotballs I would suggest getting the Xray NT1 ones. These are the strongest you can get, the Capricorn Ti ones are also good but if you bent one of those it's pricey.

New shocks will always develop air within their first run, everything needs to settle, and there might be still some air trapped because of the new build.
I bleed my shocks before every practice day because it's part of my setup routine but most of the time either none has air in it or and sometimes only one of the rear shocks a little bit. During the day I never have to rebuild them.
Thanks DS, on the old shocks I used to run 2 piston hole upfront and 3 hole in the rear using same shock oil and really liked it's feel, since I will be using a 3 hole upfront should I go with a 4 hole or 5 hole in the rear?

Also my big bore weren't so smooth when new and I had to smoothen a bit the piston in one particular shock, but now I noticed that the anodized black color on the inside in a certain section where the piston works the most got polished out to silver on all 4 is this normal?
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Old 05-01-2014, 02:59 AM   #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speed6 View Post
4 rear and 0 front

I will also lower the roll center, from the lower hinges I'm on B (A Being the lowest) but for a bumby track it's not recommended to have a low roll center right?
Speed, your droop settings will vary based on tyre diameters, shock position (angle), stiffness of springs and desired ride height. Droop measurement is not a set value, it's a reference point based on the configuration of your suspension and other variables.
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Old 05-02-2014, 10:37 AM   #474
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I went ahead and disassembled the shocks last night. As I suspected the o-rings were very loose around the shock shaft. I opted for the Tamiya o-rings and the fit is now much better. I went ahead and reamed out the plastic collar with my 3mm reamer. I wouldn't say that they were tight or binding before but they are very free now. The shock piston did 'catch' or 'stick' in the shock cylinder and it required fine sanding with the 1000 grit sand paper to eliminate the irregularities. I contemplated polishing the inner walls of the cylinder but decided to leave that alone for now. I didn't get a chance to put everything back together yet so I can't confirm if these changes have resolved my problems. I'm cautiously optimistic that they will go together well and perform great with no issues. Thanks DS Motorsport for the helpful tips.

On a side note, I've decided to go with the Cap Ti pivot balls for now. If these bend I'll try out the Xray NT1 Steel pivot balls. I'm noticing a trend of adding Xray parts to my nitro TC, which was the same in my electric TC.
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Old 05-02-2014, 07:08 PM   #475
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Quick question... What brand droop gauge is DJ using in his Swaybar and Droop video? @ Capamericarc.com.


Pass you soon...
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:06 AM   #476
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Speed, your droop settings will vary based on tyre diameters, shock position (angle), stiffness of springs and desired ride height. Droop measurement is not a set value, it's a reference point based on the configuration of your suspension and other variables.
I thought droop was mainly effected by ride height.

I do also understand that the stiffness of the spring will effect weight transition but why should tire size effect that?
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:19 AM   #477
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Dear all i'm going back to normal shocks since during the qualifications i'm not finding the right grip even though i really love how the car handles during the main race.

Would like some advise of handling characteristics if using stock setup and ....

All round Red Shocks
Rear RED Shocks - Front Black Shocks
All round Black Shocks

Thanks
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Old 05-06-2014, 01:17 AM   #478
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I thought droop was mainly effected by ride height.

I do also understand that the stiffness of the spring will effect weight transition but why should tire size effect that?
I refer to the actual measurement of droop as being a dynamic reference. If you change your tyre diameters, in order to maintain ride height the bottom arms will be higher or lower, thus the droop "value" will differ.
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Old 05-06-2014, 12:32 PM   #479
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Originally Posted by speed6 View Post
Thanks DS, on the old shocks I used to run 2 piston hole upfront and 3 hole in the rear using same shock oil and really liked it's feel, since I will be using a 3 hole upfront should I go with a 4 hole or 5 hole in the rear?

Also my big bore weren't so smooth when new and I had to smoothen a bit the piston in one particular shock, but now I noticed that the anodized black color on the inside in a certain section where the piston works the most got polished out to silver on all 4 is this normal?
I would start with 3 holes all around, 450cst oil and 3.4 springs all around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speed6 View Post
Dear all i'm going back to normal shocks since during the qualifications i'm not finding the right grip even though i really love how the car handles during the main race.

Would like some advise of handling characteristics if using stock setup and ....

All round Red Shocks
Rear RED Shocks - Front Black Shocks
All round Black Shocks

Thanks
All round red springs should work when traction is low.
Black fronts and red rears will make the car understeer more, less weight transfer to the front. Steering reaction will be quicker
All black springs will have less roll and less traction. Does make the car faster in reaction and when the grip is there it should increase corner speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blis View Post
I refer to the actual measurement of droop as being a dynamic reference. If you change your tyre diameters, in order to maintain ride height the bottom arms will be higher or lower, thus the droop "value" will differ.
Personally I think it's best to set your rideheight on blank rims and set it according to the smoothness of the track. Don't change it according to tire size. This completely changes the car's setup.

These are the settings I run:

Super smooth (Italian track)

0mm front, 0,5mm rear

Normal smooth track

0,5mm front, 1,0mm rear

Bumpy track

1,0mm front, 1,5mm rear

Crazy bumpy track

1,5mm front, 2,0mm rear
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Old 05-06-2014, 03:25 PM   #480
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I would start with 3 holes all around, 450cst oil and 3.4 springs all around.



All round red springs should work when traction is low.
Black fronts and red rears will make the car understeer more, less weight transfer to the front. Steering reaction will be quicker
All black springs will have less roll and less traction. Does make the car faster in reaction and when the grip is there it should increase corner speed.



Personally I think it's best to set your rideheight on blank rims and set it according to the smoothness of the track. Don't change it according to tire size. This completely changes the car's setup.

These are the settings I run:

Super smooth (Italian track)

0mm front, 0,5mm rear

Normal smooth track

0,5mm front, 1,0mm rear

Bumpy track

1,0mm front, 1,5mm rear

Crazy bumpy track

1,5mm front, 2,0mm rear
I use contact and will give the crazy bumby a try, what about droop? Since we are getting higher?
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