Tire Sauce ... To Do or Not To Do
12-09-2011, 11:02 AM
#136
Tech Master
Rick- Toledo is a special place that is able to be run on consistently for a series and or a season. Most tracks are not run on enough here in Florida and other places so the traction takes much longer to come up.
If the traction is high you can still use tire sauce, especially if you started to use it from the get go. I think saucing is more about softening the tire that may be harder and therefore slower in comparison to others with softer shores. I've been at a race where 30 fronts and 32 rears were the tire of choice. I had none so for me to compete I ran 32 fronts and 35 rears with sauce.
I always heard rumors that Lamberto uses 37 rears in his mains which were sauced way in advance so he doesn't need to do a tire change and win the WC!! More grip with less wear and you have a huge advantage.
If the traction is high you can still use tire sauce, especially if you started to use it from the get go. I think saucing is more about softening the tire that may be harder and therefore slower in comparison to others with softer shores. I've been at a race where 30 fronts and 32 rears were the tire of choice. I had none so for me to compete I ran 32 fronts and 35 rears with sauce.
I always heard rumors that Lamberto uses 37 rears in his mains which were sauced way in advance so he doesn't need to do a tire change and win the WC!! More grip with less wear and you have a huge advantage.
12-10-2011, 01:30 AM
#137
The fact that most participants of the EFRA meeting are not native English speakers didn't help either.
I've heard from more that one delegate that they feel they have been mislead and didn't want to vote "pro tire sauce".
It seems that EFRA just wanted to get rid of the responsibility to keep the sport clean.
In English they call it clusterf..k
And we are the one who have to live with it now.
12-10-2011, 03:27 AM
#138
Stefan, true, the poor English speaking Sander and Franky can help to be be unclear enought to the bad understanding English with most people in the room. But I do think most countries do know where they have voted for, if not then the drivers should ask themselfes if they have sended the right person.
As I do see it in Holland it is difficult to get information from the most drivers. They do not care or trust that we vote well. At least (I think) I know I do my best because I am that avarage driver not driving with all the new and lightweight stuff, I am somewhere in between the top and new guys and I know what both do. To be honest, the factory driver can tell me a lot but he is the guy wanting a lot taking a more distance from and adding more costs to the new drivers. For us we have asked the drivers their votes and from all replys we have voted as the majority wants and lucky to say, the majority from holland is voting sensible.
What did supprise me is that for Italy there was a guy from an engine manufacturer speaking for Italy and a guy from a far north country where it seems they all run as toplevel drivers. I can imagine that there are differences between countries but the reactions of whole europe (even from some toplevel drivers) supprises me and it seems some countries did not vote very well.....
As I do see it in Holland it is difficult to get information from the most drivers. They do not care or trust that we vote well. At least (I think) I know I do my best because I am that avarage driver not driving with all the new and lightweight stuff, I am somewhere in between the top and new guys and I know what both do. To be honest, the factory driver can tell me a lot but he is the guy wanting a lot taking a more distance from and adding more costs to the new drivers. For us we have asked the drivers their votes and from all replys we have voted as the majority wants and lucky to say, the majority from holland is voting sensible.
What did supprise me is that for Italy there was a guy from an engine manufacturer speaking for Italy and a guy from a far north country where it seems they all run as toplevel drivers. I can imagine that there are differences between countries but the reactions of whole europe (even from some toplevel drivers) supprises me and it seems some countries did not vote very well.....
12-10-2011, 03:56 AM
#139
far out....VHT or sugar water would fix this stupid mess in a flash.If a track runs 5th scale and the 5th sacalers don't like VHT then the club could limit the use of VHT to official state and national events only.
Sauce menas, just another cost to scare away the new racers and another stupidly tedious tyre prep process to appease the obsessive/ritualistic racers who are already in the hobby aiming for another .5 seconds
problem is that the .5 seconds was aparent only when some people used it, now that everyone will be using it at the top level that .5 improvement won't mean anything because everyone will achieve it....so all this means is that tyre prep will be a silly useless process with no gains. yeah! woohoo!! great win for EFRA
12-10-2011, 04:35 AM
#140
Trust me, a lot of people here are furious about it.
We have cancelled our Euro participation and so have others.
I will see how EFRA is going to handle this un-handleable (is that even a word?) rule and decide what we'll do next year...
12-10-2011, 04:42 AM
#141
cheating
I started in a parking lot track 8or 9 years ago and there was sauce for electric and I used it, and then someone said here is some for the foams in nitro and i felt then that it would be cheating and never used it.
Partially because nobody used it and I didn't want to win with an unfair advantage. And now I still feel its cheating even if they make a law or rule saying its legal.
I will not use it and will be the happier when I beat racers that use it, just will have to set up the car and maybe drive a little better.
Partially because nobody used it and I didn't want to win with an unfair advantage. And now I still feel its cheating even if they make a law or rule saying its legal.
I will not use it and will be the happier when I beat racers that use it, just will have to set up the car and maybe drive a little better.
12-10-2011, 08:45 AM
#143
I was in that room when it all took place. I have a lot of hope in track treatment. But unfortunately in France we have no experience in track treatment.
What's your VHT mix?
What is the best recipe?
What's your VHT mix?
What is the best recipe?
12-10-2011, 10:34 AM
#144
we have ben working on our Secret formula for years....LOL!!..first thing is ,we have come to realize that if it is New Asphalt you cannot use VHT until it ages2 years..the methanol releases the asphalt sealer and makes one hell of a messy track.........so,if it is New asphalt we use either striaght Grape soda or sugar water.....5lb bag of Sugar mixed with 2 gal of hot water....must be hot to melt the sugar
We have tried many ways of mixing Vht...1 gal VHT and 4 gals of Methanol...is were we started and varied from there...
Our best formula to date is.......
1 1/2 gals VHT...2 1/2 gals methanol.....1 gal old nitro fuel....that will make it sticky.....no tire sauce needed.......not even electric....
the Track surface needs to be cleaned,ie,blown off ,swept or pressure washed before appling or you will have rocks or dirt stuck to your track!...LOL!
also,we have noticed on 2 day events if you spray at night the dew in the morning seams to make it stickyer...
I hope this helps you!
Sincerely,Donnie......
We have tried many ways of mixing Vht...1 gal VHT and 4 gals of Methanol...is were we started and varied from there...
Our best formula to date is.......
1 1/2 gals VHT...2 1/2 gals methanol.....1 gal old nitro fuel....that will make it sticky.....no tire sauce needed.......not even electric....
the Track surface needs to be cleaned,ie,blown off ,swept or pressure washed before appling or you will have rocks or dirt stuck to your track!...LOL!
also,we have noticed on 2 day events if you spray at night the dew in the morning seams to make it stickyer...
I hope this helps you!
Sincerely,Donnie......
12-10-2011, 01:23 PM
#145
ok but what's VHT?
Very Hot Track??
Very Hot Track??
12-10-2011, 02:36 PM
#146
Additive
Additive - So much has been written about this....
At the end of the day it has been made legal and in 6 months time it probably wont even be a point of discussion, at least this creates a level playing ground for all drivers going forward.
A lot has been said indicating the use of additive will drive people away from the sport due to the complexity of it all......
Does anyone really think this is true????
Look at the complexity and rediculous costs to enter gas racing these days, sure you can start off in 10th scale, but seriously the complexity of the modern cars nowdays sure out weighs the addititve argument...
The biggest problem I see in the sport at the moment is there is no "feeder class" to gas racing thats cost effective to allow the younger group of racers i.e 16 and under to enter the sport an progress when they are ready....
Me personally I don't see the above being addressed and I think this is a far bigger issue than the use of additive going forward...
At the end of the day it has been made legal and in 6 months time it probably wont even be a point of discussion, at least this creates a level playing ground for all drivers going forward.
A lot has been said indicating the use of additive will drive people away from the sport due to the complexity of it all......
Does anyone really think this is true????
Look at the complexity and rediculous costs to enter gas racing these days, sure you can start off in 10th scale, but seriously the complexity of the modern cars nowdays sure out weighs the addititve argument...
The biggest problem I see in the sport at the moment is there is no "feeder class" to gas racing thats cost effective to allow the younger group of racers i.e 16 and under to enter the sport an progress when they are ready....
Me personally I don't see the above being addressed and I think this is a far bigger issue than the use of additive going forward...
12-10-2011, 03:30 PM
#147
12-10-2011, 04:30 PM
#148
anyway,yes the price has gone up alot over the past couple years.....
But,the "Racers" that run here can never say that there is no Bite.....The mini class usually becomes the Roly,Poly class...traction rolls.. turtles on the roof's!....LOL!!
we have been doing it so long that it is part of our racing operations!....
12-10-2011, 04:38 PM
#149
People have been using it for years.......
Me personally,i will let everyone put down some foam on the track and tire sauce and "Run' mine dry......
when they Beat me i will always say.....its because you use that Tire Sauce!....
12-10-2011, 05:59 PM
#150
Tech Adept
problem is that the .5 seconds was aparent only when some people used it, now that everyone will be using it at the top level that .5 improvement won't mean anything because everyone will achieve it....so all this means is that tyre prep will be a silly useless process with no gains. yeah! woohoo!! great win for EFRA
the saucer will be .5 second faster than the not saucer
it means more money only to be in the bottom of the list with .5 second faster lap time