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Old 03-11-2011, 09:20 AM   #1771
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By changing to the 4X knuckles and arms, you are changing the whole geometry of the front end and the car does not work the same
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:49 AM   #1772
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By changing to the 4X knuckles and arms, you are changing the whole geometry of the front end and the car does not work the same
It works well actually. If you have the parts it's definately worth a try. Nothing to lose. Ran our cars this way at pre world with no problems. As well as alot of track time local.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:07 AM   #1773
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By changing to the 4X knuckles and arms, you are changing the whole geometry of the front end and the car does not work the same

if u do try it dont use the 1mm washer under were the steering tie rod connects to the knuckle.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:46 AM   #1774
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Thanks guys , I just though it was worth a try and wanted to see if anyone had tried it cheers fergo
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Old 03-13-2011, 10:27 AM   #1775
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Is everyone alright at Mugen Japan? Anyone heard anything?
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:43 AM   #1776
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pro futaba is ok there from what i received email
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Old 03-13-2011, 11:45 AM   #1777
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pro futaba is ok there from what i received email
Very glad to hear that. Let's hope all our other Japanese friends are ok.
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Old 03-13-2011, 01:05 PM   #1778
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in response to the front end deal, kamakazi sells a longer front turnbuckle, claming its a must have, this doesnt solve the problem? i know john from j&s for a while now, and he makes kick arzz stuff so for sure id trust anything coming from his way, he puts alot of r&d into everything he does...
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:46 PM   #1779
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Hello everyone, first of all I just would like to give the testing results on the new arm, turnbuckle and steel eyelet Jason Seaton and I tested this weekend at SpeedWorld Raceway and manufactured by J&S, (JOHN).

I know everybody has an opinion on the car with the good points and the bad, positive or negative we all share our ideas with each other and that is whatís cool about this hobby. We all have different driving styles, drive on different styles of tracks with boards or without. But what is most important for all of us is to remember so we donít get frustrated is that these cars are not designed for most of us guy's that hit walls a lot or once in a while, they are race cars and designed to race against other manufactures and most off the time on r/c tracks without boards and the with the best drivers behind the wheel of a transmitter. We all should not forget to give a round of applause to all the manufactures and the most important the little guys that work out of their garage that are spending up front money out of their pocket, time and research to make a few parts better for the car for all of us to have fun. Trust me, these guys make pennies for what they are doing for us.

Jason and I drove the car but Jason drove most of time. I felt since Jason has only driven a gas car 3 times and has already broken 2 or 3 eyelets, he would help with the test and be suited for the job, LMAO. He has never broken a camber link or arm.

We run on a small track at high speed most of the time. Our track is a board track made of trex decking. Itís 15 times heavier than wood and does not move very easily. Itís 185 x 64 with 15ft wide lanes and pretty much full punch off all the corners and when you hit it hurts the car more than 50% percent of the time.

We ran 13 tanks of fuel today and hundreds of laps testing.

Test 1: ran the car with steel heim ONLY. We hit the wall 2 times pretty hard at an angle and nothing broke but bent a front dog bone. We also popped out the ring from the lower cup that holds the ball in the heim together, it is a press fit from the factory.

Solution and fix: Any other time we could say I bet the plastic Mugen heim would of broke since Jason has broken them at our track before, but none of us really can say that it would of broke. I say the heim worked awesome and did its job.

I then brought the car to the pits and took the press cup from the lower part of the ball that came off on the heim and then did the same on the opposite arm; (l&r) and threw them away then screwed the heim joint back down on the cone washer and upper cup and ran without the lower cups. Nothing changed on the car and the nut helped the ball stay in its proper position in the upper cup heim and work the same without binding.

Test 2: put the complete J&S manufactured upper arm, Lunsford 3mm turnbuckle and prototype lift kit that I made as close as possible to the stock Mugen angle of the arm with its heim, within 4 thousands. We ran about 7 straight tanks hoping that Jason would hit the wall, LMAO. Jason finally slapped the wall after about 8 minutes and nothing broke and a little rub mark on the rim where the nut sits.

Jason said he can hear me down below say please hit the wall jokingly. Jason finally hit the wall at the end of the straightaway full punch and in an angle and guarantee that should have broken a front end part. So Jason drove the car back to the pits and said something is wrong and I said well I could ask for a better hit than that one and laughed. I guess it was all in his mind that something broke and nothing did, except the rim. The rim cracked were the wheel was jammed into the upper arm.

Solution and fix: Again I could not have ask for any better wall hits than the car felt or what I had seen, LMAO. The parts that we used work awesome and did their job. We are working on a better fixture that is going too hold the heim down so stay tuned.

Keep in mind that Jason is a very good friend of mine and I hope none of you are thinking that I have made fun of him in anyway. Heís new to the sport and who is better to ask to help test parts than someone new to the hobby that I can have fun with why he is driving and I can dare him to do something and he does it, lol.. Jason has trust me so when I asked him to punch the sweeper he said o.k plus he knows I will give him parts if needed, he just did make around the sweeper that time I asked, lol. But it was a great test on the front end. Jason slapped the out side wall at 3/4 punch, he lifted a little before he hit.

Thank to my friend Jason Seaton for all your help and laughter today and Thank you John for the parts you sent to me to test for you and help with.

Personal and Final thoughts:
I really like the arms guys; they are lazer cut nicely and a little stiffer than stock Mugen ones which is fine by me. I also love the arms because you can use a turnbuckle wrench to move camber around quickly. The turnbuckle is Lunsford 3mm which is the best material on the market and nicely made also. I personally do not think a thicker turnbuckle is needed. We want some things to break when needed, but in this case we would like the front end just a little stronger for us guys that hit the wall a little more than normal. The heim work perfect as planned, we just need a little work on the heim cup and we are working on a new fixture tomorrow that holds everything together. Like I said earlier it will be trick and nicely made by J&S.

Today's Damage: cracked rim, a bent dog bone, a heim cup came apart, body damaged, but NO BROKEN part what we were testing forÖÖ.

I am sure some one will break a part when you get these kits from J&S, but I honestly will say they are stronger for what we are looking for but not strong enough to do other damege to the car.

Thanks Billy

Last edited by YLLIB; 03-13-2011 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 03-13-2011, 07:31 PM   #1780
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Billy,Thanks for the report ,also thank you Jason for doing the testing.I am not saying this is the cure all for everyone.This seemed to be the one problem that everyone complained about.I have a couple more Ideas for the front end thats going to make it even better.Thanks Bill and Jason for your help.I have the first batch of arms in the shop now ,I am just waiting on turnbuckles.JOHN MULLEN J&S Racing.
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Old 03-13-2011, 09:02 PM   #1781
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Nice post, good to see the dedication in refining the parts. I have one questions, now that there is nothing breaking except for say a rim, what stops the impact causing say the chassis to bend on impact. Being that the car has aluminum bulkheads fixed directly to the chassis. The plastic arms are design to absorb the impact and breaking is part of the job. Check the chassis, pull everything off the chassis and check for straightness. I am sure the chassis has a tweak in it.

I would have tough that replacing a few dollar item would have been cheaper then replacing the chassis.
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Old 03-14-2011, 01:22 AM   #1782
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Nice job Billy and John mullen. Can't wait to get the arms up here to try them.
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Old 03-14-2011, 02:43 AM   #1783
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Nice post, good to see the dedication in refining the parts. I have one questions, now that there is nothing breaking except for say a rim, what stops the impact causing say the chassis to bend on impact. Being that the car has aluminum bulkheads fixed directly to the chassis. The plastic arms are design to absorb the impact and breaking is part of the job. Check the chassis, pull everything off the chassis and check for straightness. I am sure the chassis has a tweak in it.

I would have tough that replacing a few dollar item would have been cheaper then replacing the chassis.
u are right about cheaper to replace the arms and small stuff, but the point u are missing is well to me anyway is finishing the race, the way the stock setup is its way to easy to break weather its tapping a board or just being tapped alittle by another car, so to me i want to finish a main and if the cars front end holds up and finishes the race ill take the trade off of a bent chasis or bulkhead cause thats not going to cause me not to finish,,,
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Old 03-14-2011, 03:32 AM   #1784
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I just want to let everyone know,you don't have to run my aluminum ball ends.These arms are made to run the stock mugen ball ends if you wish.That way you have the stock ends with the lunsford turnbuckle.And with my arm you can easily adjust your camber without drilling a hole in your new turnbuckle.Again I can't thank bill and jason enough for taking time to do the testing for me.Our local track is still frozen.JOHN
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Old 03-14-2011, 07:18 AM   #1785
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I will check the chassis today since I am off and Jason gets out of college at 10:30. But honestly, I really think that these parts are stronger than stock like I mentioned but not to strong that it's going to damage other parts on the car, it's just going to hold up better. Ralph is right, I rather finish the race than break and be out, but I also uderstand your point about chassis damage and other things.

Thanks guys
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