V-ONE RRR WC vs. MTX-4
01-15-2010, 05:49 AM
#16
You have a point and you are right my bad
01-15-2010, 05:58 AM
#17
You are right and you have a point, but a chassis can be faster than another chassis. 
01-15-2010, 06:51 AM
#18
Hoboshop,
This is more than just the chassis. The pics show that there is little variation in their design between brands. It is more about how efficient the drivetrain is from one brand to the next. With everything else being the same (engine, clutch, clutchbell/spur gears, etc), the car with the better drive ratio will be faster. This is why in electric touring, it is hard to beat the Xray car (has the lowest internal ratio at 1.7 whereas everyone else are in the low 2s).
This is more than just the chassis. The pics show that there is little variation in their design between brands. It is more about how efficient the drivetrain is from one brand to the next. With everything else being the same (engine, clutch, clutchbell/spur gears, etc), the car with the better drive ratio will be faster. This is why in electric touring, it is hard to beat the Xray car (has the lowest internal ratio at 1.7 whereas everyone else are in the low 2s).
01-15-2010, 09:13 AM
#19
Post a picture, I would love to see it too since I have driven all of the other cars except the g4 series. If you have square overview shots we should start looking at upper deck designs as well to learn where the flex is in each car.
lil-bump, if you missed my point I will simplify it for you. For every "revolutionary" change each manufacturer promises, they end up basically copying someone else except for a few. This isn't a 'VS' thread, so I am not taking any sides and don't drive any of the cars involved at the moment but I have driven all of them mentioned except the g4.
I half expected either the Losi or Xray offroad cars to have belt drive or something really revolutionary when they had their spy shots released but again.. just a copy with minor improvements. Or perhaps shaft drive for a nitro sedan, something.. I know its a copy of electric and there is really only one way to get the power from the mid bulkhead to the front but there has to be some ingenuity somewhere?
lil-bump, if you missed my point I will simplify it for you. For every "revolutionary" change each manufacturer promises, they end up basically copying someone else except for a few. This isn't a 'VS' thread, so I am not taking any sides and don't drive any of the cars involved at the moment but I have driven all of them mentioned except the g4.
I half expected either the Losi or Xray offroad cars to have belt drive or something really revolutionary when they had their spy shots released but again.. just a copy with minor improvements. Or perhaps shaft drive for a nitro sedan, something.. I know its a copy of electric and there is really only one way to get the power from the mid bulkhead to the front but there has to be some ingenuity somewhere?
01-15-2010, 09:57 AM
#20
I think the reason for all cars looking alike is the fact that designing an RC car is quite simple and straightforward. With all the modern cad and simulation programs pretty much everyone with an engineering degree and a copy of race car vehicle dynamics (by Milliken recommend it to everyone who wants to know the true principles of race car setup) could design an RC car.
And because it all is relatively simple, everyone starts to draw the same conclusions and the computer analyzing will show, for instance which is the best chassis design for a certain amount of flex and certain handling characteristics. Because of CNC-machining getting cheaper (China) you will see more complicated designs and more aluminum, but the basic geometry will stay pretty much the same.
Furthermore you could easily spot that the RC cars generations.
The old generation of 720, MTX-4, v-one blabla
and NT1. The next generation was started by the 733 and followed by the Velox V10. The Capricorn is somewhat between both generations, I would call it an evolved NT1.
Regarding Question 1:
You will see some small differences, like different springrates and antirollbars. But the basic setup would be very much alike, at least this is my experience with identical 1:1 racecars.
The small difference are mainly because of driver preference, some prefer a little understeer, some a little oversteer.
And because it all is relatively simple, everyone starts to draw the same conclusions and the computer analyzing will show, for instance which is the best chassis design for a certain amount of flex and certain handling characteristics. Because of CNC-machining getting cheaper (China) you will see more complicated designs and more aluminum, but the basic geometry will stay pretty much the same.
Furthermore you could easily spot that the RC cars generations.
The old generation of 720, MTX-4, v-one blabla
and NT1. The next generation was started by the 733 and followed by the Velox V10. The Capricorn is somewhat between both generations, I would call it an evolved NT1.Regarding Question 1:
You will see some small differences, like different springrates and antirollbars. But the basic setup would be very much alike, at least this is my experience with identical 1:1 racecars.
The small difference are mainly because of driver preference, some prefer a little understeer, some a little oversteer.
01-15-2010, 01:52 PM
#22
Post a picture, I would love to see it too since I have driven all of the other cars except the g4 series. If you have square overview shots we should start looking at upper deck designs as well to learn where the flex is in each car.
lil-bump, if you missed my point I will simplify it for you. For every "revolutionary" change each manufacturer promises, they end up basically copying someone else except for a few. This isn't a 'VS' thread, so I am not taking any sides and don't drive any of the cars involved at the moment but I have driven all of them mentioned except the g4.
I half expected either the Losi or Xray offroad cars to have belt drive or something really revolutionary when they had their spy shots released but again.. just a copy with minor improvements. Or perhaps shaft drive for a nitro sedan, something.. I know its a copy of electric and there is really only one way to get the power from the mid bulkhead to the front but there has to be some ingenuity somewhere?
lil-bump, if you missed my point I will simplify it for you. For every "revolutionary" change each manufacturer promises, they end up basically copying someone else except for a few. This isn't a 'VS' thread, so I am not taking any sides and don't drive any of the cars involved at the moment but I have driven all of them mentioned except the g4.
I half expected either the Losi or Xray offroad cars to have belt drive or something really revolutionary when they had their spy shots released but again.. just a copy with minor improvements. Or perhaps shaft drive for a nitro sedan, something.. I know its a copy of electric and there is really only one way to get the power from the mid bulkhead to the front but there has to be some ingenuity somewhere?
I'm about as sharp as a bowling ball
01-15-2010, 02:34 PM
#23
I think the reason for all cars looking alike is the fact that designing an RC car is quite simple and straightforward. With all the modern cad and simulation programs pretty much everyone with an engineering degree and a copy of race car vehicle dynamics (by Milliken recommend it to everyone who wants to know the true principles of race car setup) could design an RC car.
And because it all is relatively simple, everyone starts to draw the same conclusions and the computer analyzing will show, for instance which is the best chassis design for a certain amount of flex and certain handling characteristics. Because of CNC-machining getting cheaper (China) you will see more complicated designs and more aluminum, but the basic geometry will stay pretty much the same.
Furthermore you could easily spot that the RC cars generations.
The old generation of 720, MTX-4, v-one blabla and NT1. The next generation was started by the 733 and followed by the Velox V10. The Capricorn is somewhat between both generations, I would call it an evolved NT1.
Regarding Question 1:
You will see some small differences, like different springrates and antirollbars. But the basic setup would be very much alike, at least this is my experience with identical 1:1 racecars.
The small difference are mainly because of driver preference, some prefer a little understeer, some a little oversteer.
And because it all is relatively simple, everyone starts to draw the same conclusions and the computer analyzing will show, for instance which is the best chassis design for a certain amount of flex and certain handling characteristics. Because of CNC-machining getting cheaper (China) you will see more complicated designs and more aluminum, but the basic geometry will stay pretty much the same.
Furthermore you could easily spot that the RC cars generations.
The old generation of 720, MTX-4, v-one blabla
and NT1. The next generation was started by the 733 and followed by the Velox V10. The Capricorn is somewhat between both generations, I would call it an evolved NT1.Regarding Question 1:
You will see some small differences, like different springrates and antirollbars. But the basic setup would be very much alike, at least this is my experience with identical 1:1 racecars.
The small difference are mainly because of driver preference, some prefer a little understeer, some a little oversteer.
I watched Serpent first hand testing new plastics for the 733 that they believed were dramatically better than their original set although one team driver believes that the original plastics have their moment to shine and he is storing them until that moment. Perhaps more durable or perhaps faster, I am not sure of their exact findings.
01-16-2010, 01:17 AM
#24
They my look similar but they don't perform the same! Get over it the kyosho and the xray are better cars then the mugen. I can show you laptimes of drivers who use to drive the mtx4r and are now faster with the 733,vonerrr evo2 wc,nt1. The mtx4r is great car had one 2years ago with all the hopups made for the car but I was alot faster with the vonerrr evo2 wc last year. This year I am going to run the nt1 ec to see how I like it. I don't go off of what other people say about motors, and cars, I buy them a test them out my self. So stop these stupid mtx4r vs the world threads the car is outdated. By the way the only reason why the mtx4r won the 2006 worlds is because Andrea rossi broke Chris toso car when he was up by over 2 laps on the entire field. And it still took him the whole race to reel Chris in even through he was driveing with a broken front suspension. Kyosho tqed at every 10 scale world chamionship and either won or had two cars on the podium. Enough said!!!!!
When Robert Pietsch drags his bone stock MTX4-R to one of our regionals, he usually puts at least a lap on all of those newer cars out there.
I have actually overheard strong supporters of brand X or Y considering to buy a Mugen, since Robert can't be that much faster
Yes, the MTX4 is an old car, but when you UNDERSTAND it, it's still very competitive.
I'm not saying I do, but there's certainly people out there who do.
01-16-2010, 02:29 AM
#25
01-16-2010, 02:44 AM
#26
Slapped Together History of Rear Camber Links
Move convergence ...
I can't begin to tell you what a pain it was to create this. This is the best I could do given the limited images and dates available on the internet. If something is wrong, please let me know so I can fix it.
Move convergence ...
I can't begin to tell you what a pain it was to create this. This is the best I could do given the limited images and dates available on the internet. If something is wrong, please let me know so I can fix it.
Last edited by rmdhawaii; 01-16-2010 at 03:02 AM.
01-16-2010, 02:51 AM
#27
I actually think that mugen always was upgraded when others brands had upgrades as optionals....Seems the easier car 1/10 atm....
But i have to notice that xray makes the different cause indifferent the set up you use simply it works!!
But i have to notice that xray makes the different cause indifferent the set up you use simply it works!!
01-16-2010, 02:52 AM
#28
Question:
Yes or No? Since everyone isn't converging to the same design independently and at the same time, as you map changes over time, does innovation give the first company to implement a change a competitive advantage over the other cars until the other companies implement a similar design change?
Yes or No? Since everyone isn't converging to the same design independently and at the same time, as you map changes over time, does innovation give the first company to implement a change a competitive advantage over the other cars until the other companies implement a similar design change?
Last edited by rmdhawaii; 01-16-2010 at 03:09 AM.
01-16-2010, 07:50 AM
#29
Question:
Yes or No? Since everyone isn't converging to the same design independently and at the same time, as you map changes over time, does innovation give the first company to implement a change a competitive advantage over the other cars until the other companies implement a similar design change?
Yes or No? Since everyone isn't converging to the same design independently and at the same time, as you map changes over time, does innovation give the first company to implement a change a competitive advantage over the other cars until the other companies implement a similar design change?
I race formula ford, spec miata and 125cc shifter light and I can tell you that there are guys out there that spend 10x the normal budget on their cars and yes they are a tiny bit better but a driver is more important at the grass roots level but a pro driver and a 10x budget car is hard to beat.
01-16-2010, 08:14 AM
#30
Do you guys prefer driving with 3mm or 4mm chassis ?
Can you feel the handling differences ?
Can you feel the handling differences ?