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Old 06-07-2010, 09:27 PM   #91
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Old 06-07-2010, 11:35 PM   #92
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What setup did you run on your Razor in the end, and what gave you the steering you wanted?

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Old 06-09-2010, 11:42 AM   #93
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The steering achieved I beleive was more from the whole setup rather than particular change. I was quite surprised at the steering the car had and even had a friend comment that the car "has plenty of steering". That was also good to hear because sometimes you make a late turn and think the steering was bad on the car and it was really me being slow and late on entry.

The car to me seems very sensitive to caster. Caster can help in giving you steering but to much makes the car slow and wide in the middle of the turn. I have found somewhere around 8 to 10 degrees of caster works best for me. I am running 1.5 degrees toe out and again for me this works. I tried 2 degress and did not like it and 1.0 degree didn't seem correct so went back to 1.5. Caster is 2.0 to 2.5 depending on feel. I do run run the RC adjustment with the lower hole in trying to raise the RC a bit. I did run with the full size of the upper A arm and left the front lower A arm in the stock position. I ran 50cst oil in shocks Serpent's Blue shock which is 5.8 - 33.0 lb. Shock placement was middle hole I beleive or the second from the lower in case there are 4 holes...lol...

The rear is where I think the car really got better and the handling and steering all got good for me. I have 3mm spacer on the upper arm. I ran 3.5 degrees caster. I have Serpent's red spring which is 4.1 - 23.5 lb. with 45cst oil in shock. Just for note, I did have 4.0 degree caster and that was too much after looking at the coning of the tires. I also ran 3.0 degrees caster and found only slight coning. I went to 3.5 degrees and coning was good and handling was good. I did not run the rear this soft earlier in the heats. But a friend suggested this change and it made a huge difference in the way the car settled down in the rear and the car as a whole.

Tires I ran were 66mm front and 72.5mm rear. The car handled well with smaller tires as long as the split remained the same. Ride height was 5.0mm front and 6mm rear. I also ran 6 front and 7 rear. The car had a different feel but still handled okay. So I just stuck to this. Droop front is +1mm and rear +7mm.

Now I did like my prototype steering I had previously because the steering was quicker and more precise. However I felt the Edam Razor was a fast good handling car. On power coming out of turn the car was excellent. 90 degree turns the car was good. I think there is room for improvement don't get me wrong. However, the car was fast and fun to drive and very competitive with others even using all stock parts.

I hope this helps. If there are USA guys that need Serpent rim tires for their 1/8th cars please see my website. TMA Motorsports is now the exclusive USA distributor for GQ Racing Foam Tires and I am stocking 35 and 37 shores of GQ tires with serpent rims.

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Old 06-22-2010, 07:52 AM   #94
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Hello to all .
I want to spend some lidle words on the EDAM Razor . We run the Razor for one Year and I have to say that the basics of the car are very good ...BUT its not allready a perfect race car . Christopher Biernat here in germany is a very fast driver who finished second this weekend in switzerland with his 966.

He told me the same problems about to much clearence between the parts and a very soft chassis that after one race lost its shape without having a crash .
The fuel Tank caused us problems with our engines . The same engines from the last season in the Edam Cars are now much faster in the Serpent ...or better witrh the serpent fuel tank .

How I said . Its not a bad car from the basics ...but not ready to be a Champ .

There is a lot to do but Edam I think is hangig back and make only lidle progress in getting this car ready to be on top .

We can also say that the Edam is a very fast car but after some hours of use the performance is not the same as the performance from a new builded up car .

We modified a lot of parts and the car works very well in Cassino on the European Championship last year . But Christopher got several problems with his radio and so he couldnīt show the real potencial of his Edam Razor .

The Ideas are not bad from Edam and my girlfriend will start with the Razor too in two month . But I know what I have to mod to get the razor to a top race car .

What I dont like on the Edam is :
-the excessive play between pins and nylons .
-the chassis-plate is from less quality and I recomend to use from the start on the tuning-plate . The car works very smooth . With the original Kit-Plate the traction works very hard because the distance between the 25 pulley and the 18 pulley is a lidle to large .
- the front rollbar . After a good mod. I was able to aline the rollbar perfectly.
-fixing the damper on the rear train with shims to get them alined for a free work .
-the fuel tank . Only Engines that gets fuel can be fast engines .
maybe Edam have to test some other less resistant filters ......
than it dont takes the regular fuel quantity of 125cc.


What I like on the Edam is :
- its potencial
-its handling . Very precise in steering and fast like other cars when fitted perfectly .
-Not critical in Setup . It responds on all setup changes very good
-A nice car with Mugen Wheels .....it seems a Mugen but the price is less


I dont want to critisize the Edam Razor . But I think that we have to be honest and tell the truth about the cars .

Its a perfect car for those who wants to start racing . Its a Race Car ofcourse ...But for the Top Positions the Edam Factory have to work a lidle bit more . And Edam have to understand the market and react quicker .

I dont know how is the situation here in germany at the moment .But I wanted a OS2 Kit for my Razor and till today I cant get it .

This is bad because you cant fit the Mugen rims on the Razor . It didnīt work well .
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Old 06-22-2010, 01:14 PM   #95
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Hello
What Problems with fuel-tank did you have? I was running the Razor for complete last year, and never had Problems with full-tank. It closes perfekt, the volume was tested on german championship with exactly 125ccm and my Engine was ever good on fuel.
I wrote some times ago, that the middle layshaft (?) should be liftet in front about 2mm, rear with 1mm spacer. Then the long belt is running with perfekt tension.
'With the wearout i never had a Problem. Dog-bones in rear, driveshafts in front, belts and pinions were lasting very very long. For example, dogbones in rear of the 966 were drilled about 45 degrees after 5 Liters of fuel.
And, there were no play between arms and axles, the quality of the car was excelent. Nothing was goin strong or with to much play. I liked the Razor very much, the only Problem i never could fix so as i want, was the understeer.
And the speed. In Hobbycup, where the Novarossi N21 5T is the engine you have to run, the razor was realy quick, not one mile slower than another car with same engine.
What i think what mistake Edam makes: They look for worlds with their edam Spirit in 1:10 Scale. This season is near the End, and the overhauled Razor is not seen or promoted, whether Edam gives any Informations about it.

And, there is no conversion-kit for OS2 Rims. But here in this forum, there is a post wich subscribes to change the car for os2 rims:
Born an a Champion Pursuit SPT1!!!
Have a look on this, and you can use OS2 Rims.

What i cant understand is your critic about the chasis plate. I hade some heavy crashes, but my chasis plate (the older one for 5 AAA-Cells) is absolutely straigt. If i put in on a glas plate, there is no distance anywhere to the glas, its flat on.

Please dont misunderstand me. I changed to Serpent 966 too, because the car is out of the box easier for me to drive, i can handle the car better with my driving style. But for hobbyracers and people with smaller money-bag, the Razor is the perfect racing car because low wearout, good quality of plastics and steel. The only Problem is to find perfect setup with enough gripp in front and hold on the harmony of the car.

Stephan

Edit:
the situation in Germany is OK. RC-Tyres.de is since some weeks the new german distributor and Eckard is driving the Razor on Races himself. As his shop we germans can get all parts so as before when LMI was the distributor.
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Old 06-22-2010, 01:58 PM   #96
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Hello Stephan. Sorry I have not written back to you but this summer I am trying to race as much as possible and vacation with the wife as much as possible also. Trying for that balance so I keep her happy!!!! I know you understand this !!!! lol

I have no fuel tank problems and no plastic problems either. However Stephan you are right about Edam. They are putting all their eggs in the Spirit basket. I don't for see the new 1/8th car coming for some time and all we are going to get is new hubs for the OS2 wheels so we can run all the same tires as others.

When I spoke with Rene he found that the OS2 hubs didn't really knock off any time off his lap times but made the car handle and feel better. If the hubs did knock off time it would be like a tenth. However everything helps and if the car feels better when driving that is a nice advantage.

I made the conversion with Serpent 966 hubs and 966 parts to complete the conversion. I have not yet run the car with the conversion since I am using up the GQ tires with Serpent wheels I presently have in stock.

The Razor of course is not at it's best and not a champ at the present time. What is truly funny I feel that the Razor was the closest car to make a name for Edam rather than the Spirit. Although their newer option parts have made the Spirit car stiffer and other parts over came some problems they had in the past. The car has excellent potential without question. My thought is only that the Razor has some very sound qualities and with a few changes would be a fun competitor for other brands.

Changing some geometry here and there and with a sound base car, the Razor for me has been a very smooth easy to run car. Everything in my car moves very smoothly and with very little resistance as most top cars. I have it powered by a Muran Modified Novarossi and the car does fly! I hope Edam does keep their attention to this car and help it move to the top.
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Old 06-22-2010, 02:43 PM   #97
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Hello

OK . Maybe you have a reworked version of the Razor . I can say that on our Razor there was play between the wishbone and the pin of about 0,2-0,3 mm. And this for my flavour is too much to get a good performing car that works in the damper and not between pin and nylon . Wishbones and all suspension parts have to work smooth and free with less play possible . In this case the suspension works perfectly in the damper .

Our Chassis was flat in the beginning and after a race it was torsioned .

In no way flat ! But how I said ...maybe we got a fault series of the Razor and maybe there was some modification on some parts . I dont know .
The problem with the Fuel-Tank we got was that the engine runs a lidlebit lean .
The problems was not so bad on short tracks with a lot of corners , but on very fast tracks . We go around 5 and half minutes with a fuel-tank . With a Serpent Tank the same engine runs out of fuel after only 4 and half minutes with better performance. We practice 1:8th over 25 years and we got a lot of experiences with this scale . I do no critic on the Razor . I only tell our experiences with this car . I also said that for my opinion the Razor is not a bad car . But we got the evidences that not all is so perfect how you explained . The tension of the side belt "ON OUR CARS "was to strong . With the tuning chassis the problem disapeared because the midle shaft support was positioned perfectly .On the Kit chassis it wasnīt so .
Anyway .
When we go on the track our cars are tuned perfectly and to get a good performing Razor you have to work a lidle bit and only if you fix the problems that for sure are not so much , you get a well performing race machine . But to go fast and be competitive you have to choose something else .

There is no OS2 conversion Kit ??? Nice . One year ago someone from Edam told me that it will be available shortly .....ONE YEAR AGO !!!!

Soon the Serpent rims will disapear . What kind of wheels you will use in future ????

For me the Razor remain a good car for those who wants to have fun and start racing in competitions . I mean that for me Edam is not so serious for those racers who wants to get a state of the art race car. There are no news and the evolution is concerned on the spirit .

The razor is now more than 2 years old . I got my first car from SPM in Italy ...and the actual version looks the same .
On the Toy fair they show a prototype from the Razor evolution ....Where is it ?

In a few words ...a good car but only a good car till now
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Old 06-22-2010, 03:36 PM   #98
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Hello
sorry for misunderstanding. Iīm german and my english is not so good. I think, i misunderstud something a little bit. I never want to attack you or to say, that you will lie, never! Please excuse me, if you feel so.
The Razor is not a new car, i know too. It was selled as Protech VRX8 some years ago, and as pursuit PT1 it is offered this time, i think in south amerika. (with changes for OS2 Rims)
Maybe, when get the VRX, Edam seems to have done work on the car. I know some Edam-Drivers here in Germany, and noone hat Problems with fuel-tank. I think, in yours was a failure from manufacturer.
In my Post, i wrote, for a good long belt tension, the middle bracket should be mounted on spacers, 2mm in front, 1mm in rear. So it will get a little camber to rear and long belt is not so strong.
I got my Razor at beginning of last year, and Chasis is the T6 7075 Alu, i think it is same Material as used at Serpent and other cars.
I have the relation between the razor from last year and a Serpent 966 from this year. In Razor, i have after 15 Liters of fuel first pinions, first ballbearings, first clutch and other else. The inserts in front brackets are strong in place, and pins for upper and lower arms are going smooth but without play. Only sometimes they were damaged after hit a wall. Only crashes need part-changing. Excuse me, the pins from bones and drive-shafts i changed after 10 Liters, they had flat-spots. The wearout from Serpent is much more. If touching smooth the pit-wall, upper caps of shokabsorbers are breaking, and they you cant buy simple. Only with complete Repairset for more than 25 euro. When i crashed the Edam and upper eye was broken, i bought new, 4pieces/3 Euro. And the Edam shoks are until now without any leak. A negativ point is for me the play between balls and eyes where the shoks are mounted.
For OS2-rims, in front is no problem, in rear (sure, that is poor) you can use Mugen Blocks and axles and pivot-balls.
Please, dont misunderstand me. Iīm in 13th Year of racing, and i dont wanna tell, that Edam Razor for me is the fastest car. After change to Serpent, i was 0.5 Sec faster per round out of box. But the car is better as it seems.
And one thing, that is a big mistake in my eyes: Edam gives no setup-guide for the razor. A good setup-guide and setup-booklet would help al lot for getting better speed with razor, specially for new users.
If Edam will make some changes, they will be closer to the top-cars. To be on top, that is a hard fight for every 1/10 of a second. But, is every hobby-driver able to squeeze out the last tenth of a second from a better car to be faster as with a razor?
If the point arrives me, that i have to stop race and only driving for fun, i will change back to edam, because its better for my money
greetings from Germany
Stephan
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Old 06-23-2010, 10:17 AM   #99
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Hello Stephan

I got no problem with you . We are all Racers and I think everybody is free to tell his own experiences . There is nothing to excuse.
Alles in Ordnung Stephan .

I told you that my Girlfriend will start running with the Razor because I find that the Razor is the best solution for start and getting better .
I find its poor that a such good potencial didnīt find evolution . The Razor is a very good car and I recomend you to set the Razor as soft as possible on the damper . I dont know whats your driving style . If you go with gas through the corners , set your Razor very soft . I did a setup on my Razor that was similar like the MRX4 setup . I found it works very well .
Can you tell me .....
Do I have to change the wishbones too for the OS2 on the Razor ? If I want to adapt the MRX4 pieces ???
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Old 06-23-2010, 11:22 AM   #100
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Just for clairification, Edam is not making the molds for the new OS2 Hubs for the Razor. I don't know how long it will take before they will have them. However as I expressed from what I learned, the only advantage for the OS2 hubs is to be able to find tires to use on the Razor. I do know finding Serpent wheel tires is more difficult as time goes on. Being a GQ Racing Tire distributor, I can tell you that GQ still makes the tires on the Serpent wheels. Good to know for Edam Racers and Serpent owners that have not made the conversion. The wheels come in GQ's bright orange and look very nice on the cars. So until Edam comes out with the OS2 conversion, which hopefully will be soon, purchasing Serpent wheel tires is still an option.
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Old 06-23-2010, 02:39 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TM America View Post
...........However as I expressed from what I learned, the only advantage for the OS2 hubs is to be able to find tires to use on the Razor. .
If im right, OS2 has two things other than the OS1:
~3mm offset (?) at rear tires. (Using OS2 on Razor, the track width is 6mm more i think) and the Pins are in dia a little more.

My drivestyle:
I prefer, to go hard on brake before the corner, roling in corner to curbs and then with hard acceleration on middle of the corner out. This is fast, but it is a little more difficult and makes place for mistakes. But therefore, the car has to have a good gripp in front every time. And i was to silly to bring the Razor to that point, that he was making exactly what i want. And, for good high-speed in fast curves, i allways had to pull down my rear gurney-flip. Sometimes, i was driving without. This was not helpfull for a good stability on brake when speed was going down.
I remember at my first drive with the Edam, that he will have a hard understeering. Last year when car was new, i made my "standard-setup" and was braking in a new enige. Therefore i was driving first fuel without a body. No other car was so "glued with the rear" as the Razor. I could go through corners, as i have a body with spoiler on the car.
Believe me, i tried a lot, but i didnt had the time to try out all. I tried springs from serpent from yellow over red, blue till grey, toe-in, toe-out, much camber, less camber, smaller and more trackwidth. At my home track, i was going with short wheelbase, less castor, 1 degree toe in in rear, a totally stupid setup. When i was turning in, the car "jumped" into the corner with beginning oversteer, but then it changed to understeer and at that point i was on hard acceleration for a little "power-oversteer". It was ~good to control, but there was place for mistakes. Good for qualification where i was beating a Serpent, but in final i made to much mistakes when missing the point where i had to give gas And when i didnīt know what can help, i made rear tires 5 shore harder than front
The Razor hase a good Base, but he needs more gripp in front and some more setup-functions. The easiest would be, to turn the front inserts in brackets for upper arm-pins for 90° and short the upper arms ~2mm.

Will you hear a laughing thing? With very very small work, it is possible to mount Edam inserts and Pins and front upper arms in a Serpent 966
The inserts are needed because Serpent hast 3mm Pins and Edam uses 3,5mm Pins. But the upper arms are nearly the same, exept the little crank at outisde the serpent arms, where the arms from edam are straight.
The Problem, edam has is, that they are now not a top car wich is selled much. And on On-Road, it is hard to earn money. Changes are expensive, and i think they think to much for the Spirit and the Worlds to provide a top-edam car. I hope, that they dont mis the train in 1:8. The biggest Ace in the hole for Edam is the price, and i hope, that with the next generation of Razor it doesnīt change.
Greetings
Stephan
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:42 PM   #102
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It is very simple to convert the Edam to run with OS2 rims. Just change the rear upright and axial to mugan one. As the Mugan upright is "thinner" the rear track will not change. Now you can run OS2 rims without any issue. You can even use the stock Edam drive shaft and rear body mount.
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:07 AM   #103
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The info I have received this week is that the Edam parts to convert to be able to use OS2 wheels will be available within a month or two.They realise drivers want this so are making the parts as upgrades for those who want them.
Fortunately here in the UK OS1 wheels are easily available as Enneti still make them for me without a problem.
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Old 06-28-2010, 01:44 PM   #104
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In one of my earlier replies I said I used Serpent for my conversion. I had sepent wheels on my mind and made the wrong statement. I used Mugen for my conversion. It is an inexpensive conversion and the allows racers to use any tire manufacturer of their choice. Of course I recommend GQ Racing Tires. For those racers in the USA, it would be good for you to look at our GQ Tire thread. It may prove to be an excellent opportunity for you.

In Stephen's reply he mentioned he used 2mm spacers in the front of the middle bracket and 1mm in the rear to give camber toward the rear. I tried that and it did not perform well for me. It left me to have to lower the belt tensioner to low on the middle to keep from throwing the belt. I do however have 1mm spacers on all four points. The rising of this middle bracket made the front move belts and pulleys move very smoothly. I did fabricate a belt tensioner for the front belt. The belt is long and without having an eccentric to adjust the belt so it would become taut, I was afraid I would be having problems of stripping the belt under racing conditions. My belt tensioner holder screws to the top plate and has been working great and I have not ever had any front belt problems. However if Edam is going to have so much space between pulleys and has to use longer belts, an eccentric should be a part of the front bulkheads in the future.
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Old 09-05-2010, 03:57 PM   #105
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No news about Edam? Seems to bee extremely Quiet about.
I checked out some things on my Razor, and i think, it may help.
Are there any News about the Razor 2?
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