Decline in the 1/10th Nitro Sedan scene??
12-19-2009, 12:32 AM
#46
Interesting observation. Parking lot tracks are a lot of work too - and not everyone wants to help setup. [ Note: There should be a parking lot track rule that says that no one works on their car until the track is setup. 
] Everyone that stays until the end usually helps tear things down and put things away. Having racers clean up after themselves can also be an issue. I always walk the parking lot as things are shutting down to pick up all the small little bits and pieces that people tend to "leave behind" - glow plugs, small pieces of lexan, cut plastic ties, tire shore stickers - traces of evidence that the owner of the parking lot goes out of his way to find. 
] Everyone that stays until the end usually helps tear things down and put things away. Having racers clean up after themselves can also be an issue. I always walk the parking lot as things are shutting down to pick up all the small little bits and pieces that people tend to "leave behind" - glow plugs, small pieces of lexan, cut plastic ties, tire shore stickers - traces of evidence that the owner of the parking lot goes out of his way to find. I just remembered of a track in Connecticut called TARMAC Raceway. They catered to the Tamiya TL-01, Mini, and F103 Tamiya chassis. It's a really awesome track and have some restrictions such box stock chassis only with a certain MAH rating limit. It's a permanent track that could be configured at least 3 different ways and a pit lane although the track was mainly for electrics. There are a lot of newbies who find nitro too much of a hassle although my personal take on it is their lack of patience LOL
. I'd offer the Kyosho TF-5 Ready Set. It looks to be a really sturdy car and it comes with a nice Novak ESC. All that it is required to run are AAs for the transmitter and NIMH packs. The upper links are adjustable as well as the shocks which have a nice flashy red cap. Best body style and tire combo which would be nice for an advanced class as well as entry. The Associated RTR comes with nice gear as well. I'd push for sales of those two. The HPI Sprint 2 Sport, Ofna JL, and Thunder Tiger are also other great choices too for those who want to save a few more bucks. These all would be in say an RTR "run what ya got shoot out" however cars would be inspected to make sure it is factory equipment and not swapped armatures or so. New comers will enjoy the body styles available as we all know most of them go by the body style to determine who will win the race (i.e. the Lamborghini body will be faster than the Mustang body). I'm feeling a nice permanent track layout with payed marshals, on site food, power, and LOTS of trash bins to make sure people USE them. There would be pit "marshals" to make sure things are kept in check such as making sure people aren't doing things they shouldn't be doing and prevent rioting.
12-19-2009, 01:31 AM
#47
12-19-2009, 02:57 AM
#48
Several people have mentioned that more time needs to be spent with new racers - but if you think about it, haven't some of these new racers already been set up for failure before they get to the track?
Spectators see guys racing, get all excited about doing it themselves and drive to the nearest hobby store with a wallet full of money. They buy an RTR or assemble a kit, and then show up at the track ready to have some fun. Now you tell me, what does this new racer know about firing up a Nitro car and racing it around a track? I know a few people that quit nitro R/C before or after their first day at the track.
If every RTR and kit came with 40 hours of instructional DVD, life would be so much better for everyone and would raise the hobby/sport to a whole new level. Granted, the person may never watch the DVD, but then that's their own fault. At least everyone knows the information is available, right under their noses.
"You obviously didn't watch the DVD that came with the car." 
As I see it, the R/C industry isn't doing enough to educate it's customers about how to use it's products. The Hudy setup book is great on theory, but how does that translate to information that someone new can use on the track? If every pro racer put out a 10-15min video every month on how to solve common tuning and setup problems, we would have an entire library of material for people to learn from - before and after their first race day. But we all know that something like this will never happen. (Okay, if someone is putting out videos, please let me know so I can watch them.
)
So when we talk about why it's so hard for new racers, let's think about the real reason why it's so hard for them. Is it because we're not going out of the way to help them - or is it because they really didn't know what they were getting themselves into? Is it because the new racer's expectations are out of whack with reality? Is it because the R/C industry isn't concerned about the information vacuum associated with their products? Do they even acknowledge that a vacuum exists?
When I started racing, I read as much as I could in books, magazines and Web sites - but that reading only gave me theory, not practical experience. And the manufacturer's Web sites? They didn't have jack. It wasn't until I started having problems - and forced to do research - and ask questions here (thank God I found this place) - that I was able to really get smart about all of this. And I still have plenty to learn! The guys at the track were helpful when I asked, but like dnitro pointed out, everyone was busy with their own challenges. I created NitroKB to make it easier to find answers to common questions, but that's just a start point for people to figure out what they need to do based on their own unique situation.
My newest information crusade is to help new racers learn more about getting into R/C - a section that was definitely missing from my Web site before. My hope, is that it will educate people about what they are getting themselves into, the challenges they are about to face and help set the right expectations for them to enjoy R/C racing.
Anyway.. Just some miscellaneous rambling like usual.
This is my last post in this thread. Promise!
Spectators see guys racing, get all excited about doing it themselves and drive to the nearest hobby store with a wallet full of money. They buy an RTR or assemble a kit, and then show up at the track ready to have some fun. Now you tell me, what does this new racer know about firing up a Nitro car and racing it around a track? I know a few people that quit nitro R/C before or after their first day at the track.
If every RTR and kit came with 40 hours of instructional DVD, life would be so much better for everyone and would raise the hobby/sport to a whole new level. Granted, the person may never watch the DVD, but then that's their own fault. At least everyone knows the information is available, right under their noses.
"You obviously didn't watch the DVD that came with the car." As I see it, the R/C industry isn't doing enough to educate it's customers about how to use it's products. The Hudy setup book is great on theory, but how does that translate to information that someone new can use on the track? If every pro racer put out a 10-15min video every month on how to solve common tuning and setup problems, we would have an entire library of material for people to learn from - before and after their first race day. But we all know that something like this will never happen. (Okay, if someone is putting out videos, please let me know so I can watch them.
) So when we talk about why it's so hard for new racers, let's think about the real reason why it's so hard for them. Is it because we're not going out of the way to help them - or is it because they really didn't know what they were getting themselves into? Is it because the new racer's expectations are out of whack with reality? Is it because the R/C industry isn't concerned about the information vacuum associated with their products? Do they even acknowledge that a vacuum exists?
When I started racing, I read as much as I could in books, magazines and Web sites - but that reading only gave me theory, not practical experience. And the manufacturer's Web sites? They didn't have jack. It wasn't until I started having problems - and forced to do research - and ask questions here (thank God I found this place) - that I was able to really get smart about all of this. And I still have plenty to learn! The guys at the track were helpful when I asked, but like dnitro pointed out, everyone was busy with their own challenges. I created NitroKB to make it easier to find answers to common questions, but that's just a start point for people to figure out what they need to do based on their own unique situation.
My newest information crusade is to help new racers learn more about getting into R/C - a section that was definitely missing from my Web site before. My hope, is that it will educate people about what they are getting themselves into, the challenges they are about to face and help set the right expectations for them to enjoy R/C racing.
Anyway.. Just some miscellaneous rambling like usual.
This is my last post in this thread. Promise!
Last edited by rmdhawaii; 12-19-2009 at 03:08 AM.
12-19-2009, 03:40 AM
#49
As I see it, the R/C industry isn't doing enough to educate it's customers about how to use it's products. The Hudy setup book is great on theory, but how does that translate to information that someone new can use on the track? If every pro racer put out a 10-15min video every month on how to solve common tuning and setup problems, we would have an entire library of material for people to learn from - before and after their first race day. But we all know that something like this will never happen. (Okay, if someone is putting out videos, please let me know so I can watch them.
) So when we talk about why it's so hard for new racers, let's think about the real reason why it's so hard for them. Is it because we're not going out of the way to help them - or is it because they really didn't know what they were getting themselves into? Is it because the new racer's expectations are out of whack with reality? Is it because the R/C industry isn't concerned about the information vacuum associated with their products? Do they even acknowledge that a vacuum exists?
- where must I start to tune, which aluminium parts?
- I want adjustabel turnbuckles, how to set?
- I want an anti rollbar, how to fit it and what will it do?
These kind of questions tells me they do not know what needs to be bettered to the car but they want it all to think it will be better. A Tamiya TT01 will stay a TT01 don't matter how much aluminium and tuning is on it. It will never be a winner but hey, it looks good!
And that is whats count on the parking lot, it must look awesome and it must go realy fast.
Going to a track for the first time they do not need these adjustable "things", it is more importand to learn driving the track with what they have so they learn controling the mind and fingers is more important than having an adjustabel camber.
The only thing where the factories must focus on is the right information how to run in and tune the nitro engine so even a 6 year old kid can learn it.
12-19-2009, 07:09 AM
#50
Roelof/RMD - True. It'd be nice if things came with more instructions for troubleshooting and a CD. The CD won't help if they don't have internet though and believe me there are people out there who never had it LOL.
I'm trying to remember which race track had a "test and tune" day where people could come out, get tips and tune their rides before jumping in to race.
I'm trying to remember which race track had a "test and tune" day where people could come out, get tips and tune their rides before jumping in to race.
12-19-2009, 07:33 AM
#51
It is a hobby, and this hobby unfortunately, does not fit for anyone....
12-19-2009, 08:33 AM
#52
To continue on Roloef's thought, another problem in RC is the need for instant gratification. How many times have you seen threads on here like "Which car do I get for 2010?" or "What's the fastest engine out there?" I literally have to stop myself from posting DO YOUR OWN DAMN HOMEWORK!!!
This is one of the reasons I've always tried fighting for an inexpensive level class. If someone comes up and says they want to race, you can point them to this class, tell them it's cheaper and easier to run, but you won't be as fast as the high end racers. This class is where you get the skills you need for racing, and when you're ready and if you want, you can move up to the faster full race classes. Somewhere along the way this concept was destroyed.
This is one of the reasons I've always tried fighting for an inexpensive level class. If someone comes up and says they want to race, you can point them to this class, tell them it's cheaper and easier to run, but you won't be as fast as the high end racers. This class is where you get the skills you need for racing, and when you're ready and if you want, you can move up to the faster full race classes. Somewhere along the way this concept was destroyed.
12-19-2009, 08:48 AM
#53
To RC, or not to RC... There's no question!
This is like a catch 22. The newbs are eager to learn and eager to share new information and knowledge. The better their skills get, the more they need to concentrate on tuning and may not be as helpful to other newbs. They get better and better, then get sponsorship. This seems to be the attitude of a lot of sponsored racer. They don't have time to help a beginner tune their car because they are expected to work on their own to perform well for the sponsors. Don't get me wrong, there are great guys out there who do share their knowledge with the beginners. But most of them are so focused on their cars, that they don't even come up to breath air. I'm wasn't even good and I am guilty of the above.
I was heavily into racing a few years ago but since local track closed, I ventured into rc planes. Then I realized how relatively cheaper it is to fly planes than to race. A full race car and necessary equipment, tools, spares, and tires will cost $1500 to $2000 plus maintenance, track fees, fuel. I got a nice radio and 7 park flyer sized planes with that kind of money, complete with servos and power systems (enough planes to make a hanger out of my garage). As much as I love to go back, the cost of racing is going to keep me from doing so.
I was heavily into racing a few years ago but since local track closed, I ventured into rc planes. Then I realized how relatively cheaper it is to fly planes than to race. A full race car and necessary equipment, tools, spares, and tires will cost $1500 to $2000 plus maintenance, track fees, fuel. I got a nice radio and 7 park flyer sized planes with that kind of money, complete with servos and power systems (enough planes to make a hanger out of my garage). As much as I love to go back, the cost of racing is going to keep me from doing so.
What really makes the difference for newcomers is when the "pros" dont have their obligations to sponsors weighing heavily on their performance. They are all like minded people and often demonstrate a completely different persona when they come into the garages and see the beginnings of their sport in others.
We are fortunate to have a mix of PRO's and amateurs at our club, in addition the committee is run by 20year+ veterans who are mature and wise and regardless of their decisions at any point in time, as I experience the sport more and more I realise they have a good grasp of the bigger picture and long term aspects of how RC racing is best administered and manages.
To give a good example of what lifts the sport is when the Pro's come out to "play with" the newcomers and draft them with causing damage and set a good tone of racing "WITH" not racing "AGAINST" others on track. The spectators enjoyed the close racing regardless of whether the PRO is taking it easy and the newcomer is on the edge of their skill or machine. Its all about spectacle we put on show and if we demonstrate quality driving ethics, close racing, the spectators (mums and friends, visitors and newcomers) enjoy what they see on track and promote the fact that it's worth the $$.
Lets not take away the RACING and RACE FACE : ON time where the top runner AWE the crowd with the power, speed, traction and precision driving skills. I clearly recall a Mother inlaw stating, I thought my son inlaw played with toy cars. Having one of the top runners set a track record on the laps with an awesome display, she replied to me saying, "now I realise that this isnt just a toy, it's an awesome feat of skill and engineering.. Im truely amazed!"
If we slowly introduce the two sides of our sport to newcomers and emphasise strongly that it's a matter of time and the most important thing to maintain is self satisfaction regardless of overall position, there'll be racing on track that's well worth the $$ at all levels of heats. Remove the "Im better than you", remind the newcomers that there's an AWEFULL lot to learn and no one can part with all that information in a matter of hours or days.
It's like computing, I cant teach anyone anything unless they really know what it is they want to learn.
Xmas cheers, festive spirits, VIVA RC!!
h
12-20-2009, 09:48 AM
#55
Perfex 27Mhz
Wrong channel, there's only heartache and trouble awaiting you at the end of a straight and likely to need lots of front end parts too. Has RCtech DB index gone south on us again?
12-20-2009, 10:04 AM
#56
The more I read the thread, and the more I looked at our club, I think Nitro 1/10 has been picking up! There has been a noticeble decline in the Stock 17.5BL/27T Touring Car. I think all those new fancy speedo's have really hurt our local club racing.
We also run Pro10 which has been popular, (imho) because the cars are so over powered that it doesnt matter if you have latest tech, or the oldest. You still cant get the power down to the ground, so the field is extremely tight and balanced.
Nitro 1/10 has been picking up as the local rules have been steady, and you dont need the have the lastest greatest. Normally the guys that can drive, AND tune properly end up at the front after our 20min A main.
Shawn.
We also run Pro10 which has been popular, (imho) because the cars are so over powered that it doesnt matter if you have latest tech, or the oldest. You still cant get the power down to the ground, so the field is extremely tight and balanced.
Nitro 1/10 has been picking up as the local rules have been steady, and you dont need the have the lastest greatest. Normally the guys that can drive, AND tune properly end up at the front after our 20min A main.
Shawn.
12-20-2009, 10:05 AM
#57
I guess it's also because people. 10yrs ago people more welling to spend time learning something they don't know. Not anymore...
All the new people I saw who is able to stay in RC recently, are all:
1. welling to learn stuff which take long time to learn
2. have friend to help him
3. have LHS support as well
Internet shop is a bad thing for newbie since it offer no help for newbie. LHS is critical thing for newbie's survival, especially to newbie who has no friend to guide.
All the new people I saw who is able to stay in RC recently, are all:
1. welling to learn stuff which take long time to learn
2. have friend to help him
3. have LHS support as well
Internet shop is a bad thing for newbie since it offer no help for newbie. LHS is critical thing for newbie's survival, especially to newbie who has no friend to guide.
12-20-2009, 10:59 AM
#58
I guess it's also because people. 10yrs ago people more welling to spend time learning something they don't know. Not anymore...
All the new people I saw who is able to stay in RC recently, are all:
1. welling to learn stuff which take long time to learn
2. have friend to help him
3. have LHS support as well
Internet shop is a bad thing for newbie since it offer no help for newbie. LHS is critical thing for newbie's survival, especially to newbie who has no friend to guide.
All the new people I saw who is able to stay in RC recently, are all:
1. welling to learn stuff which take long time to learn
2. have friend to help him
3. have LHS support as well
Internet shop is a bad thing for newbie since it offer no help for newbie. LHS is critical thing for newbie's survival, especially to newbie who has no friend to guide.
The starter only wants a RTR kit and as cheap as possible. They come into brands like Smartech, Reely, Acme etc. and do not mind the quality, support and spareparts, the only thing is that they can drive a RC car for a lousy 200 dollars or less and mostly that means buying garbage at some cheap (Asian) internet store specialized in gadgets.
As with every beginner the first engine will not have a long life and for sure those cheap Asian made garbage although with a good handeling people can have a long time fun with it. Sadly most starters have not and they always blame the product and not their own lack of knowledge and because of that they have created an image that these bad experiences goes for all RC cars.
12-20-2009, 07:26 PM
#60
Yeah, I'm kind of interested in the first comment myself.......And what is an RCTECH DB index? (because I KNOW you ain't talkin' on HarD.....)