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Old 04-11-2012, 09:38 PM   #1441
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The diff is not a problem. My partner in the shop says he can make those, basically reproduce the Delta ball diff. However, with that said, we brainstormed a bit and had a few ideas.

Looks to me like there are two ways of going about this. One, we find someone (or I take it upon myself sometime later) to reproduce parts as needed...find a company that can make gears and get those made in quantity, and so forth. Or...

We're tossing around the idea of making a new pan using parts existing in the market today. I'm inclined to go that route since I figure I can buy off ebay or other places most of what I'd need for about 150 bucks to make a rolling pan. I'd go with an SG or Delta setup in front, but in back I'd go with a reversed Kyosho GT type setup with no suspension, keeping the ladder bars, just making them fixed and retaining the top adjuster for camber and such. Since pans and servo trays don't cost me diddly so long as they're aluminum, I'm just having to look at a single speed, metal gear type that would be pretty easy to work on and have very low center of gravity. Going the route I'm thinking and using sources I've come up with over the past six months, I could produce a car that should run well on a budget of 400 bucks, which would include car, engine, exhaust, radio gear, body, and probably enough foam to run a full year. It'd be durable and still should be fast as well. We've got some ideas I'd like to talk about with some of you guys trackside (29th will be my first appearance) and I may have preliminary drawings by then.

What I'm contemplating is doing the legwork and building the first prototype probably over next winter. If all goes well, I could either produce the cars as needed for a customer, or I could put together directions where an actual hobbyist (someone who enjoys building things with their own hands) could do it themselves.

What are your thoughts?
.very good ideas........but, hows about trying to build a car that uses readily avaiable front end parts......such as knucles/axles from a modern day 4WD car like Motonica did?..........would ease the pain of finding replacements.....they could be had from current 4WD racers already at the track....also, are you meaning to build a straight axle car or a car with adjustable rear toe also like a Motonica?....as much as i love my straight axle cars,.......the rear toe definately helps as far as traction issues......also modern day rear end parts could also be utilized.......400.00 price point would be great...
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:12 AM   #1442
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.very good ideas........but, hows about trying to build a car that uses readily avaiable front end parts......such as knucles/axles from a modern day 4WD car like Motonica did?..........would ease the pain of finding replacements.....they could be had from current 4WD racers already at the track....also, are you meaning to build a straight axle car or a car with adjustable rear toe also like a Motonica?....as much as i love my straight axle cars,.......the rear toe definately helps as far as traction issues......also modern day rear end parts could also be utilized.......400.00 price point would be great...
My thoughts exactly. I can build it as a straight axle or a diff, but either way it'll have the adjustable rear toe in the design I'm contemplating. Frankly, I'd rather keep the dogbones and diff to keep price down, rather than go with straight axle or split axle/one way bearings for diff effect. Keep in mind I'm still talking a car that will pass tech as per 1/8 pan class and take a variety of bodies, which means that todays bodies could be run on it well. For the front end, my preference would be Delta style, for durability and to keep cost down, but if someone loaned me a front end set up off a Motonica, for instance, I could punch a pan as a template and then ppl could make that as they see fit. I also considered the Delta front end because in all the time I ran one, I never broke a part and I'm not sure if it's even possible to break a part (and I lost radio control and ran rull till boogie into the end of the backstraight once, went thru the board, over the curb and into the parking lot without breaking a front end part.) I'm really keen on using the KISS principle here, where the newbie can run it without fear of constant breakage, but a pro has room to grow and make setup changes for performance. Nothing against 4wd..but with this economy, a lot of ppl can't afford to show up to the track with toys that cost more than what they drove to the track in.
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:24 PM   #1443
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My thoughts exactly. I can build it as a straight axle or a diff, but either way it'll have the adjustable rear toe in the design I'm contemplating. Frankly, I'd rather keep the dogbones and diff to keep price down, rather than go with straight axle or split axle/one way bearings for diff effect. Keep in mind I'm still talking a car that will pass tech as per 1/8 pan class and take a variety of bodies, which means that todays bodies could be run on it well. For the front end, my preference would be Delta style, for durability and to keep cost down, but if someone loaned me a front end set up off a Motonica, for instance, I could punch a pan as a template and then ppl could make that as they see fit. I also considered the Delta front end because in all the time I ran one, I never broke a part and I'm not sure if it's even possible to break a part (and I lost radio control and ran rull till boogie into the end of the backstraight once, went thru the board, over the curb and into the parking lot without breaking a front end part.) I'm really keen on using the KISS principle here, where the newbie can run it without fear of constant breakage, but a pro has room to grow and make setup changes for performance. Nothing against 4wd..but with this economy, a lot of ppl can't afford to show up to the track with toys that cost more than what they drove to the track in.
as of now my idea is my own front using modern steering parts onmy own uprights with a montonica rear assembly and my own radio tray. seems we are all very similar in idea. i was just building for fun cannot manufacture any quantity
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:38 PM   #1444
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as of now my idea is my own front using modern steering parts onmy own uprights with a montonica rear assembly and my own radio tray. seems we are all very similar in idea. i was just building for fun cannot manufacture any quantity
We're all limited by something. I personally think the Delta is the best platform (no chance I'm biased, right.) I know I can't improve on that..may as well claim to improve on a Van Gogh. However, it looks like we've all got ideas how to come up with something new based on what is availible, which I REALLY like. I still want to come up with something bulletproof for newbies, because learning how to drive is a real pain, and if your car can't take the hits, you don't get much time driving, and it chases off a lot of ppl I'm sure who either get frustrated or feel like they are dumping money down the drain. I think the rules as they stand for pan class are excellent, general dimensions and such, which gives ppl room for some creativity, gives the hobby room for new ideas, and lets ppl do their own thing without being shoehorned into "buy this or else." It's not about winning (at least for some,) it's about fun and experimenting. I wonder if that isn't how racing started out..and I wonder if that isn't what the hobby needs to return to, but I'm willing to help anyone with their project, and between all of us, I expect we could come up with a very respectable, affordable platform to race with. I have plenty of examples to steal (pardon, gain inspiration) from in the shop, I have two Super J's, two Super Eagles, a P2, P4, a few SG's (diff and straight,) and a very old Thorp belt drive, my buddy has a Kyosho GT2 that we vastly improved on, and I get good ideas from all of them. I suspect everyone here is much the same in that regard, because every car has some aspect of it that really stands out, but no car is perfect in every detail, but I really like the ideas we're talking about on here....
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:13 AM   #1445
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We're all limited by something. I personally think the Delta is the best platform (no chance I'm biased, right.) I know I can't improve on that..may as well claim to improve on a Van Gogh. However, it looks like we've all got ideas how to come up with something new based on what is availible, which I REALLY like. I still want to come up with something bulletproof for newbies, because learning how to drive is a real pain, and if your car can't take the hits, you don't get much time driving, and it chases off a lot of ppl I'm sure who either get frustrated or feel like they are dumping money down the drain. I think the rules as they stand for pan class are excellent, general dimensions and such, which gives ppl room for some creativity, gives the hobby room for new ideas, and lets ppl do their own thing without being shoehorned into "buy this or else." It's not about winning (at least for some,) it's about fun and experimenting. I wonder if that isn't how racing started out..and I wonder if that isn't what the hobby needs to return to, but I'm willing to help anyone with their project, and between all of us, I expect we could come up with a very respectable, affordable platform to race with. I have plenty of examples to steal (pardon, gain inspiration) from in the shop, I have two Super J's, two Super Eagles, a P2, P4, a few SG's (diff and straight,) and a very old Thorp belt drive, my buddy has a Kyosho GT2 that we vastly improved on, and I get good ideas from all of them. I suspect everyone here is much the same in that regard, because every car has some aspect of it that really stands out, but no car is perfect in every detail, but I really like the ideas we're talking about on here....
just need a weather control device
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:20 AM   #1446
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I'm going old school today. I've cut rings, and I'm in the process of gluing the rings (thanx Ned.) I'm starting with two sets of rears for a SuperJ, which I've already taken the rims down to the nylon. More to follow...wish me luck.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:03 PM   #1447
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I'm going old school today. I've cut rings, and I'm in the process of gluing the rings (thanx Ned.) I'm starting with two sets of rears for a SuperJ, which I've already taken the rims down to the nylon. More to follow...wish me luck.
...inquiring minds want to now.....wheres the foam come from???
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:19 PM   #1448
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...inquiring minds want to now.....wheres the foam come from???
Enquiring minds don't get to know till I test it and make sure it's good lest someone else order some up and be unhappy (lol.) Plus I'm not entirely satisfied with this batch, they are a tad soft, so I have two other samples headed this way and should know more by next Thursday. I'm wanting at a minimum 35, 40 and 50 shore or close to it and I have a tech guy at a company working with me on this. If I'd gotten my rear end moving faster on it I wouldn't be down to crunch time like I am now but between work in the shop and infirmities, I'm moving slow. Just as soon as I have a good handle on it, I will spread the word asap.
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:20 PM   #1449
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Enquiring minds don't get to know till I test it and make sure it's good lest someone else order some up and be unhappy (lol.) Plus I'm not entirely satisfied with this batch, they are a tad soft, so I have two other samples headed this way and should know more by next Thursday. I'm wanting at a minimum 35, 40 and 50 shore or close to it and I have a tech guy at a company working with me on this. If I'd gotten my rear end moving faster on it I wouldn't be down to crunch time like I am now but between work in the shop and infirmities, I'm moving slow. Just as soon as I have a good handle on it, I will spread the word asap.
.i can handle disappointment............we're all big boys here...where's the freakin' foam coming from?.........i'm praying Grainger...i get a discount from them...........
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:43 PM   #1450
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.i can handle disappointment............we're all big boys here...where's the freakin' foam coming from?.........i'm praying Grainger...i get a discount from them...........
Grainger is too expensive. I don't know how many companies I've talked to thus far wanting upwards of anywhere from 10 to 20 bucks a square foot. The stuff I currently have runs me less than 90 for 3 x 8 foot, but I figure the shore on it somewhere about 30 and that is just too soft...it'll work fantastic on pan in a qualifier but I don't know how it'd handle a main, so I'm trying other alternatives. I want to get the price so ridiculously low that everyone will want to go this route.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:30 PM   #1451
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Grainger is too expensive. I don't know how many companies I've talked to thus far wanting upwards of anywhere from 10 to 20 bucks a square foot. The stuff I currently have runs me less than 90 for 3 x 8 foot, but I figure the shore on it somewhere about 30 and that is just too soft...it'll work fantastic on pan in a qualifier but I don't know how it'd handle a main, so I'm trying other alternatives. I want to get the price so ridiculously low that everyone will want to go this route.
....i think 30 shore would be fine for our pans....the Toledo track isnt highly abrasive compared to other tracks ( from what i hear)...and 4WD will kill 30 shore in short order..but you just cant lay the power in a pan like 4WD.......32-35 would probably be ideal but if 30 shore can be had for next to nothin.....count me in............i think i currently have 35's on my 300 and they seem to last a LONG time.........
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:40 PM   #1452
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....i think 30 shore would be fine for our pans....the Toledo track isnt highly abrasive compared to other tracks ( from what i hear)...and 4WD will kill 30 shore in short order..but you just cant lay the power in a pan like 4WD.......32-35 would probably be ideal but if 30 shore can be had for next to nothin.....count me in............i think i currently have 35's on my 300 and they seem to last a LONG time.........
If nothing else, these things should grip like hell on 2wd, I figure traction would be the least of the issues. I first started this tire thing because I plan to run 4wd this year as well...and the price of tires is just silly...and you can't buy just the foam....and I figured there has to be another way. Like I said, I'm not sure about making a main with these, but if I made combo sets with a stiffer outer ring, they'd be perfect, and I need the stiffer stuff for 4wd anyhow. I'm hoping the new samples turn out good AND don't cost an arm and a leg. I told the sales rep that if this stuff works out, there'd be plenty of ppl would like to buy the stuff as well, so I have hopes it'll work out. One way or another, I will find a supplier for decent foam at a decent price, I won't settle for more than 2 bucks my cost per tire.
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:41 AM   #1453
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I'm going old school today. I've cut rings, and I'm in the process of gluing the rings (thanx Ned.) I'm starting with two sets of rears for a SuperJ, which I've already taken the rims down to the nylon. More to follow...wish me luck.
Good luck on the tire project! Keep us posted on how it works out!
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:55 AM   #1454
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I getting ready to go out to the Toledo track for T&T! Have my DXF, P8C , and RC 300 Davis/Schmaltz ready to go! (I think!) HAsn't rained all moring at Lon Sr.s house so should be dry, 80F but windy. Main objective is to see if I can get the engines running and go from there!!

Phil, I'm kinda a re-nubie on 1/8 but best I can tell is 4wd guys run about 35 rear and 32 fronts and on the Classic Pans 35 rear and a bit harder fronts, may 37or 40. I think harder would probably not work well. I can run "modern Wheels on my RC 300 D/S and will try the same as Classic to start, 35/37. My guess is 30 to 32 might be good for rears blut might bounce too much and I'd like to try around 40 fronts....

By the way, had a great time "helping" at the Toledo Weak Signals show Friday and yesterday! The club guys did a great job getting a booth set up on very short notice and we had lots of people stopping by to talk and expect to have some check out the racing and maybe join in!

Good Job, Guys!!!
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Old 04-15-2012, 12:22 PM   #1455
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, I'm not sure about making a main with these, but if I made combo sets with a stiffer outer ring, they'd be perfect, and I need the stiffer stuff for 4wd anyhow. I'm hoping the new samples turn out good AND don't cost an arm and a leg. I told the sales rep that if this stuff works out, there'd be plenty of ppl would like to buy the stuff as well, so I have hopes it'll work out. One way or another, I will find a supplier for decent foam at a decent price, I won't settle for more than 2 bucks my cost per tire.
..that just may be the ticket....harder outer ring and softer inside..........2 bux per tire for my pan would be sweet.........then i only have to get killed on tires for the 4wd
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