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Old 04-10-2012, 02:36 PM   #1426
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Dennis, Lon II and Lon,
Sorry I stuck my nose where it didn't belong. I'm old school, there were always written/published rules for classes when I was involved in running the One-Eighth Racers and the Mid-West Series. (I know, ancient history! LOL) I am simply not used to a run-what-ya-brung, anything goes class! I understand Lon's idea of a "FUN" class, but also know "FUN" has different meanings for different people....

PLEASE do not take this as a complaint, I was merely trying to fill in blanks as I thought they had been discussed. I'm too old and feeble to worry about being competitive and living 400 miles from the nearest 1/8 gas racing, it is not like I can be a weekly participant anyway.

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NOt a problem. If we find someone has an unfair advantage we will just take them behind the camper and flog them until they quit!

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Old 04-10-2012, 08:02 PM   #1427
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NOt a problem. If we find someone has an unfair advantage we will just take them behind the camper and flog them until they quit!

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Old 04-10-2012, 08:07 PM   #1428
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Originally Posted by aarcobra View Post
Dennis, Lon II and Lon,
Sorry I stuck my nose where it didn't belong. I'm old school, there were always written/published rules for classes when I was involved in running the One-Eighth Racers and the Mid-West Series. (I know, ancient history! LOL) I am simply not used to a run-what-ya-brung, anything goes class! I understand Lon's idea of a "FUN" class, but also know "FUN" has different meanings for different people....

PLEASE do not take this as a complaint, I was merely trying to fill in blanks as I thought they had been discussed. I'm too old and feeble to worry about being competitive and living 400 miles from the nearest 1/8 gas racing, it is not like I can be a weekly participant anyway.

Good Luck,
Ned
I may not be as old...probably more feeble...and not to worry, I'd figure you guys with the newer stuff are supposed to have the advantage anyhow...but hope runs deep as does stubborness. I just figured that 2wd is 2wd, whether direct or belt, both still fall under the ROAR guidelines and same specs. I'm hoping to do well, but my main goal is to have fun while the body and wallet permit, and one more day in the sun for a product that used to set the pace but is no longer in production. I will, however, out of deference to you as a former Toledo president, leave the revolving turret and flamethrower off the car, I'll disable the smoke bombs and oil slick...and what the hell, I'll even take off those pointy things I put on the wheels like in Ben Hur. And I should get a beer for this....

Phil
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:45 PM   #1429
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I may not be as old...probably more feeble...and not to worry, I'd figure you guys with the newer stuff are supposed to have the advantage anyhow...but hope runs deep as does stubborness. I just figured that 2wd is 2wd, whether direct or belt, both still fall under the ROAR guidelines and same specs. I'm hoping to do well, but my main goal is to have fun while the body and wallet permit, and one more day in the sun for a product that used to set the pace but is no longer in production. I will, however, out of deference to you as a former Toledo president, leave the revolving turret and flamethrower off the car, I'll disable the smoke bombs and oil slick...and what the hell, I'll even take off those pointy things I put on the wheels like in Ben Hur. And I should get a beer for this....

Phil
Thanks Phil! Since you are leaving your stuff off, I will too! I was working on electronic countermeasures type stuff, but was having trouble with it knocking my radio off too!! ;-

Ned
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:42 AM   #1430
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The pan car class is growing but by no means can it be called strong enough to be chassing off fellow pan cars because it came from the wrong decade.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:32 AM   #1431
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Default Nah, no probs here

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The pan car class is growing but by no means can it be called strong enough to be chassing off fellow pan cars because it came from the wrong decade.
Out of deference to Ned, he's probably doing like I am, running off 30 yr old memories. Running the Toledo club back in the day was probably...interesting. Upwards of a hundred drivers show up for a Midwest race, and 90-95 of them are no problem, they pay their money, get thru tech and all is well. But then you get the few that are underweight, running a questionable body, odd exhaust, and then proceed to argue every single point tho they've never read the rules (and in some cases probably didn't know rules existed in the first place.) I've seen ppl argue that because their car came with a 150 cc tank, tho the rules say it's supposed to max at 125, that they should be allowed to run it regardless, and a guy showed up once with I think a Serpent suspension car (and there were no other such cars at the time) and insisted on being allowed to race it (which he did, but if he wasn't such a bad driver we'd have DQ'd him because he was driving over the dots and we'd get hung up on the things with our pans.) Superstock used to require a .202 bore for the carb, and some guys would "lose" theirs, or it'd be just a hair over, and so forth. So in a way Ned does have a point, as their is a difference between direct drive and belt, and given how ungainly ROARs rules are in 10th scale, for instance, he made a gut call given his experience in having to do so...quite understandable. On the flip side, I'm happy I'm allowed to run, and should it turn out I've any unfair advantage of any sort, I'll be happy to make changes as required. Thanx all for your patience.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:05 AM   #1432
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Out of deference to Ned, he's probably doing like I am, running off 30 yr old memories. Running the Toledo club back in the day was probably...interesting. Upwards of a hundred drivers show up for a Midwest race, and 90-95 of them are no problem, they pay their money, get thru tech and all is well. But then you get the few that are underweight, running a questionable body, odd exhaust, and then proceed to argue every single point tho they've never read the rules (and in some cases probably didn't know rules existed in the first place.) I've seen ppl argue that because their car came with a 150 cc tank, tho the rules say it's supposed to max at 125, that they should be allowed to run it regardless, and a guy showed up once with I think a Serpent suspension car (and there were no other such cars at the time) and insisted on being allowed to race it (which he did, but if he wasn't such a bad driver we'd have DQ'd him because he was driving over the dots and we'd get hung up on the things with our pans.) Superstock used to require a .202 bore for the carb, and some guys would "lose" theirs, or it'd be just a hair over, and so forth. So in a way Ned does have a point, as their is a difference between direct drive and belt, and given how ungainly ROARs rules are in 10th scale, for instance, he made a gut call given his experience in having to do so...quite understandable. On the flip side, I'm happy I'm allowed to run, and should it turn out I've any unfair advantage of any sort, I'll be happy to make changes as required. Thanx all for your patience.
Thanks Phil, you make good points and I certainly remember those kinds of things happening!

As I mentioned in past posts, my involvement in the pan class resurgence started with conversations after Lon's Classic Pan seal failed to take hold. Joe Patrick and Matt Taylor, were messing with VIntage Pans at the first club race last year. Lon got involved and the brain-storming sessions (Lots of brain farts involved!) Got around to the difficulties in finding tires, clutch parts, etc. and the Classic option looked more practical.......

Again, my first intention and preference, is to have a Vintage pan car class, not the Classic class. I was convinced, and I believe rightly so, that for the Pan class to have a chance Classic was the way to go. I bought one, don't really like the idea of basically being "forced" to run the same car as everybody else, but without Garen and Motonica, we would not even be having this discussion!! (Now I have a DFX, looks cool, but if something breaks I will have to either make it or shelve it!!! ;-))

As far as running Vintage and Classic together, I mistakenly got the impression that the Classics were what the class was intended for and pans would be allowed as an exhibition class...I was mistaken...sorry 'bout that.

I quess only time will tell what works!

Ned
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:09 AM   #1433
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The pan car class is growing but by no means can it be called strong enough to be chassing off fellow pan cars because it came from the wrong decade.
Well that is a refreshing change of attitude from the guy who set-up the Toledo F1 Class=either buy an a Tamiya Spec Car or stay HOME!!!

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Old 04-11-2012, 11:26 AM   #1434
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Well that is a refreshing change of attitude from the guy who set-up the Toledo F1 Class=either buy an a Tamiya Spec Car or stay HOME!!!

I was incharge of that class so I made the rules in a way that I thought would bring the most guys to the track. I think at one race we had 15 entries so I'd call it a good choice. The racing was very close and a ton of fun since no one had a edge on anyone else. However I am not in charge of this pan car class and I got the feeling you guys all want the run what you brung type class and really just want to see great numbers of cars on the track at the same time no matter how fair the racing is. I hope it works out for you guys. I do plan on having Lon III run a car this year just so you old guys have a kid to fear still. lol
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:33 AM   #1435
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Again, my first intention and preference, is to have a Vintage pan car class, not the Classic class. I was convinced, and I believe rightly so, that for the Pan class to have a chance Classic was the way to go. I bought one, don't really like the idea of basically being "forced" to run the same car as everybody else, but without Garen and Motonica, we would not even be having this discussion!! (Now I have a DFX, looks cool, but if something breaks I will have to either make it or shelve it!!! ;-))

As far as running Vintage and Classic together, I mistakenly got the impression that the Classics were what the class was intended for and pans would be allowed as an exhibition class...I was mistaken...sorry 'bout that.

I quess only time will tell what works!

Ned
......with the vintage cars being so old...the guys that want to run pan pretty much have no choice other than to run a modern "pan".......and im fine with that.........lets not overcomplicate the class....that usually turns into a class killer.....If someone could produce a cheap straight axle diff. pan car...i bet they colud sell them if they were cheap enough....hell, i'd buy a 2nd car and let anyone who wanted to race it at the track race it for free......If i can finish any place other than dead last ( like i do in open) with a vintage car...it's a good day.....we have to keep the PROS II and ZUCH out.........
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:17 PM   #1436
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That was my next solution, Joe! I may have issues with the next set of tires I use!

What are your plans for the next two weekends? I hope to run the electrics now that that's a go. I think the 15th is an official "test and tune" day at the Mall track are you going to make it down? I plan to go to the Model Engineering show on the 21st as early as possible and then back to the Mall to race electric as much as I can, then practice gas. And of course race on the 22nd!!!! yahoo!
planning on all club events, will try the model show will let you know. see some posts about other cars, please bring'm out and have fun in our low stress class!!
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:23 PM   #1437
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......with the vintage cars being so old...the guys that want to run pan pretty much have no choice other than to run a modern "pan".......and im fine with that.........lets not overcomplicate the class....that usually turns into a class killer.....If someone could produce a cheap straight axle diff. pan car...i bet they colud sell them if they were cheap enough....hell, i'd buy a 2nd car and let anyone who wanted to race it at the track race it for free......If i can finish any place other than dead last ( like i do in open) with a vintage car...it's a good day.....we have to keep the PROS II and ZUCH out.........
the freakin diff is whats holding the project back
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:07 PM   #1438
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the freakin diff is whats holding the project back
.that is true....i have an idea that you could probably make a reality on the lathe to fix the problem.........man i need some machinery.........we'll hash it 1st race day
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:18 PM   #1439
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http://www.goldenyearsrc.com/
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:24 PM   #1440
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the freakin diff is whats holding the project back
The diff is not a problem. My partner in the shop says he can make those, basically reproduce the Delta ball diff. However, with that said, we brainstormed a bit and had a few ideas.

Looks to me like there are two ways of going about this. One, we find someone (or I take it upon myself sometime later) to reproduce parts as needed...find a company that can make gears and get those made in quantity, and so forth. Or...

We're tossing around the idea of making a new pan using parts existing in the market today. I'm inclined to go that route since I figure I can buy off ebay or other places most of what I'd need for about 150 bucks to make a rolling pan. I'd go with an SG or Delta setup in front, but in back I'd go with a reversed Kyosho GT type setup with no suspension, keeping the ladder bars, just making them fixed and retaining the top adjuster for camber and such. Since pans and servo trays don't cost me diddly so long as they're aluminum, I'm just having to look at a single speed, metal gear type that would be pretty easy to work on and have very low center of gravity. Going the route I'm thinking and using sources I've come up with over the past six months, I could produce a car that should run well on a budget of 400 bucks, which would include car, engine, exhaust, radio gear, body, and probably enough foam to run a full year. It'd be durable and still should be fast as well. We've got some ideas I'd like to talk about with some of you guys trackside (29th will be my first appearance) and I may have preliminary drawings by then.

What I'm contemplating is doing the legwork and building the first prototype probably over next winter. If all goes well, I could either produce the cars as needed for a customer, or I could put together directions where an actual hobbyist (someone who enjoys building things with their own hands) could do it themselves.

What are your thoughts?
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