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Old 11-26-2011, 09:27 PM   #1066
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Is it just me or does anyone else notice, When it's quiet, Matt's not around!
...............turkey and boose make me sleeeeepy..........
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Old 11-27-2011, 01:43 PM   #1067
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...............turkey and boose make me sleeeeepy..........
ok, so whats the latest project
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Old 12-01-2011, 11:38 AM   #1068
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As an old 1/8th scale guy im just looking at this class with a slight bit of skepticism.. I think a simpler more cost effective class for beginners/intermediates/sportsman is always a good idea in racing but in actuality it is very difficult to do. The problem seems to always be that racers that dont belong in the entry level/Sportsman type classes get involved and the class ends up morphing into another $$$$pecialty class.

Maybe this class isnt supposed to be that??
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:04 PM   #1069
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As an old 1/8th scale guy im just looking at this class with a slight bit of skepticism.. I think a simpler more cost effective class for beginners/intermediates/sportsman is always a good idea in racing but in actuality it is very difficult to do. The problem seems to always be that racers that dont belong in the entry level/Sportsman type classes get involved and the class ends up morphing into another $$$$pecialty class.

Maybe this class isnt supposed to be that??
so far most of our entrants are sportsman type , scratch builders or if they are high end looking for fun. lots of input from the older guys, so far so good
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:09 PM   #1070
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As an old 1/8th scale guy im just looking at this class with a slight bit of skepticism.. I think a simpler more cost effective class for beginners/intermediates/sportsman is always a good idea in racing but in actuality it is very difficult to do. The problem seems to always be that racers that dont belong in the entry level/Sportsman type classes get involved and the class ends up morphing into another $$$$pecialty class.

Maybe this class isnt supposed to be that??
I think your point is a valid one and one I believe should be considered when making rules and discussing this class. It certainly is intended to be more cost effective, and attract beginners and sportsman types. We want to have rules that control costs as much as possible (3 port engines, selling for under $250) but the chassis are kinda high, (IMHO).
Some of us oldtimers would like to run sedan bodies (older ones, if possible ;-)), but they are about twice the price of the current super-aero bodies, so that's a bummer...
As far as people who "don't belong" getting involved, I would like to think that was me back in the '70's and '80's running SUper Stock. But with good rules and good sportsmanship (maybe hard to find today ) Beginners and Sportsman racers can run together and have good competition. Sometimes unfortunately, you just have to accept that guys who "don't belong" will probably beat you. Somtimes because they are an enough better driver that although the cars are as equal as possible, and somtimes maybe because they spend more or for another reason.
I think our attitude is that we want to race something different and have FUN! So far so good. I think next summer will be even better!!

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Old 12-01-2011, 01:21 PM   #1071
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Nice to hear.. it does look interesting. Im a fan of "pan" style cars and my idea of this would be quite a bit simpler but i can also see making the cars with parts that will cross over to the 4 wheel drives for when you decide to move up
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Old 12-01-2011, 01:38 PM   #1072
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I think your point is a valid one and one I believe should be considered when making rules and discussing this class. It certainly is intended to be more cost effective, and attract beginners and sportsman types. We want to have rules that control costs as much as possible (3 port engines, selling for under $250) but the chassis are kinda high, (IMHO).
Some of us oldtimers would like to run sedan bodies (older ones, if possible ;-)), but they are about twice the price of the current super-aero bodies, so that's a bummer...
As far as people who "don't belong" getting involved, I would like to think that was me back in the '70's and '80's running SUper Stock. But with good rules and good sportsmanship (maybe hard to find today ) Beginners and Sportsman racers can run together and have good competition. Sometimes unfortunately, you just have to accept that guys who "don't belong" will probably beat you. Somtimes because they are an enough better driver that although the cars are as equal as possible, and somtimes maybe because they spend more or for another reason.
I think our attitude is that we want to race something different and have FUN! So far so good. I think next summer will be even better!!

Ned
Well, actually the rules should be centered around driver skill and not the car so much imo. Setting up the class so that you MUST move up with your skill level would be a good way to enforce a "true" Beginner/Intermediate class. So many "Wins" will move you out of the beginner class into the next level. Same with the Intermediate/Sportsman. Its sad to think some really good drivers want to sandbag with a bunch of rookies just to win a trophy. Sorry, not trying to derail the thread.. honestly really looking at the 2wd thing.
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Old 12-01-2011, 02:46 PM   #1073
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Well, actually the rules should be centered around driver skill and not the car so much imo. Setting up the class so that you MUST move up with your skill level would be a good way to enforce a "true" Beginner/Intermediate class. So many "Wins" will move you out of the beginner class into the next level. Same with the Intermediate/Sportsman. Its sad to think some really good drivers want to sandbag with a bunch of rookies just to win a trophy. Sorry, not trying to derail the thread.. honestly really looking at the 2wd thing.
But I'm sure there are some VERY GOOD drivers out there who are looking at this thread and considering this type of car. They are tired of the constant wrenching and cubic dollars that the modern day 4WD beasts require.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:51 PM   #1074
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But I'm sure there are some VERY GOOD drivers out there who are looking at this thread and considering this type of car. They are tired of the constant wrenching and cubic dollars that the modern day 4WD beasts require.
You are dead on right. We run the pan cars and find it fun because they are so crude and close making them a breath of fresh air. I don't see the need to make a rule to keep fast people out of the fun. Anyone who truly is fast in 4wd is just going to be stopping in for a break in the pan car class and not live and die by it. I have run a pan car and by no means is it so I can win. I'm pretty sure I have not even won a pan car race for that matter.
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:53 PM   #1075
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Nice to hear.. it does look interesting. Im a fan of "pan" style cars and my idea of this would be quite a bit simpler but i can also see making the cars with parts that will cross over to the 4 wheel drives for when you decide to move up
Not sure what you mean by "my idea of this would be quite a bit simpler"? But unfortunately only a very few manufacturers make cars that will "crossover" to 4wd and they are not the "popular" ones. THey may be the best of the best but it's doubtful many guys going from Pan to 4wd will opt for "upgrading" just to use a very few parts. The wheels/tires. and radio will transfer and the motor would probably be better for most guys but few will run 4wd with a "slow" 3 port!
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:04 PM   #1076
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Well, actually the rules should be centered around driver skill and not the car so much imo. Setting up the class so that you MUST move up with your skill level would be a good way to enforce a "true" Beginner/Intermediate class. So many "Wins" will move you out of the beginner class into the next level. Same with the Intermediate/Sportsman. Its sad to think some really good drivers want to sandbag with a bunch of rookies just to win a trophy. Sorry, not trying to derail the thread.. honestly really looking at the 2wd thing.
You must be from the "old school" too! I started racing in 1970/71 and back in the day, driver classes worked well. Unfortunately they are much harder to use today. In the Midwest Series and many other "surviving" 1/8 scale gas clubs and series, there is not even enough car count to run Masters and Open classes seperately all the time. If you only let true beginners run together you likely will have only a few or possibly none at many races. Adding an "intermeadiate" class just adds another heat with only a few drivers. Most racers would rather run in a race with 8 to 10 cars and beat a few than win in a two car heat......
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:19 PM   #1077
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You are dead on right. We run the pan cars and find it fun because they are so crude and close making them a breath of fresh air. I don't see the need to make a rule to keep fast people out of the fun. Anyone who truly is fast in 4wd is just going to be stopping in for a break in the pan car class and not live and die by it. I have run a pan car and by no means is it so I can win. I'm pretty sure I have not even won a pan car race for that matter.
Das is certainly a very good driver, finishing at or near the top of the "A" consistantly. Racers of his caliber (about a .44 Mag work on 4wd's constantly between races and just throw the 2wd pan on the track and race! The more the merrier, I say!

To me that is the real point-when there are enough enteries in the Pan class or any class, skill levels sort themselves out. Das will likely beat me by a lap or more in a five minute heat (in any car). If there are 8 to 10 cars, I might come in the top half, if there are two heats, I may even win once in a while!
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:16 PM   #1078
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Originally Posted by 8thscaleOG View Post
As an old 1/8th scale guy im just looking at this class with a slight bit of skepticism.. I think a simpler more cost effective class for beginners/intermediates/sportsman is always a good idea in racing but in actuality it is very difficult to do. The problem seems to always be that racers that dont belong in the entry level/Sportsman type classes get involved and the class ends up morphing into another $$$$pecialty class.

Maybe this class isnt supposed to be that??
..the thing that would keep this class from becoming a $$$$$$$$$$pecialty class is many of the guys that will run this ALREADY run a high maintenance WFO 4WD car......In my eyes it would be damn near impossible to run a 4WD car AND another high maintenance car and keep both going to optimum performance.........i just want more track time with a simple fun car......that looks REAL.........
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Last edited by Taylorm; 12-02-2011 at 09:17 PM. Reason: i cant type
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:21 PM   #1079
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Well, actually the rules should be centered around driver skill and not the car so much imo. Setting up the class so that you MUST move up with your skill level would be a good way to enforce a "true" Beginner/Intermediate class. So many "Wins" will move you out of the beginner class into the next level. Same with the Intermediate/Sportsman. Its sad to think some really good drivers want to sandbag with a bunch of rookies just to win a trophy. Sorry, not trying to derail the thread.. honestly really looking at the 2wd thing.
......dont think the "good" drivers want to sandbag to win a trophy.........they just want more wheel time like everyone.........without DOUBLING the work involved to run another high strung rocketship.......
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Old 12-03-2011, 11:22 AM   #1080
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......dont think the "good" drivers want to sandbag to win a trophy.........they just want more wheel time like everyone.........without DOUBLING the work involved to run another high strung rocketship.......
the high end guys seem too be having a good time, a nice diversion from the high intensity of open class. and we get too follow and learn some things. i'm all for the more realistic idea
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