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Old 07-23-2011, 09:11 PM   #481
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hey ned if you are in toledo early next week and have a passport i'm off wed-fri come on over
no-one wants to go to Canada you fool......
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Old 07-24-2011, 09:53 AM   #482
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no-one wants to go to Canada you fool......
i know too quiet and safe
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Old 07-24-2011, 03:10 PM   #483
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i know too quiet and safe
i like quiet..........want me to ship my kids to Canada.............
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Old 07-24-2011, 03:29 PM   #484
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hey ned if you are in toledo early next week and have a passport i'm off wed-fri come on over
If I need a passport to get in, what's it take to get out? ; )

Really, I would like to come up to bench race and see your projects, but no tickie, no washie.... I should have gotten a passport when my wife told me to. I thought I just kept me from going to Ireland with her, didn't know it would keep me from messing with RC cars!!!

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Old 07-24-2011, 03:32 PM   #485
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http://www.sdp-si.com/
Ned, this place has tons of beltts/pulleys gears...........
Thanks Matt, I have gotten stuff from SDP since thelate 60's or early 70's! What couldn't you make with all that neat stuff?!?!

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Old 07-24-2011, 04:07 PM   #486
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i am wondering about this issue too. it could be argued that modern engines are great because they are easily found and not expensive, rare, vintage, OR hard to work. If people are looking for a friendly entry into 1/8, i dont think old engines are good. i for one dont have the skills to tune those engines and am a bit intimidated by the idea of running vintage k&b or other stuff. Folks like Rick Davis and other experts will kill the amateurs in this department.

Jason-Thanks for joining in! I don't really know what's what, especially since I live in South Carolina and there's no real 1/8 scale on-road racing within a couple of hundered miles at all, let alone "vintage". But since I'm vintage and started racing in the vintage year of 1971, I'm in!!! ; )
I understand your comments and tend to agree on the motors, but I would like the option of messing with older motors just for fun
.

Are we discussing two classes? I know the vintage 1/12 thread discusses the difference between vintage and vintage open (or something like that). The difference is whether or not ALL equipment needs to be old stuff, or if some can be modern.

I agree with what has been said earlier: if we are going to get this off the ground, everything should be aloud. If the class is a pure vintage class it will be expensive and difficult.

Personally, I don't think there is enough interest for two "classes". Maybe someday. Have not read the 1/12 thread but sounds interesting too! Also agree a mix of equipment is best to get participation. I just got a "sort of" Associated 200 for $56 off eBay! I also recently got a P8C for $250. To me those are reasonable prices, I wouldn't touch a P8C for "Street Price" ($500 ?). Got three very serviceable 4wd's for less than $250 average with tons of parts. And you're always assured (as much as you can be ; )) that there will be similar cars to race with.

THE MAIN QUESTION MAY BE THIS: IS THIS GROUP TRYING TO START VINTAGE DEMONSTRATION RACING OF OLD CARS OR IS IT TRYING TO REINVIGORATE THE DYING ONROAD COMMUNITY?

I think both of these goals are great, but first and foremost I feel strongly that the future of onroad racing is in question, and the best thing we could possibly do is to start a 1/8 2wd onroad class that is affordable, fun, accessible, competitive, AND NOT INTIMIDATING TO NEW PEOPLE AND YOUNG PEOPLE.
Here's where we may disagree a bit... But I agree completely that you have identified the BEST thing that could be DONE, but WE can't DO it... IMHO
Again I'm not sure what the "group" is trying to do, but I'm of the opinion that the reinvigoration of 1/8 scale gas on-road is more than I want to attempt! To me the price of the cars and the avalibility of places to run them are the big problems which cannot be easily overcome. I know Lon totally disagrees with this and believes you can run a 2 wd modern pan car way cheaper than a 4wd car. I have three 4wd's, 2 Evolvas and a Shepard and A TON of parts for about the price of a new pan car. Although I have a number of motors, the most I paid was undere $200 which is the same as a 3port buggy motor. I think Hobby King needs to come out with a "Modern-Vintage" Associated 300BD for $200 Kit or $400 RTR before the price of a 1/8th gas car would get any "nubie" notice. ; )


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Old 07-24-2011, 04:41 PM   #487
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I think this is getting silly! The fact of the matter is, the old pan cars have already done their part to move 1/8th on road racing to where it is today. Unless someone does a remake of one of them, their job is done. A few custom built up dated cars aren't going to make a big difference. These are treasures that can be enjoyed still if there is a 2wd place to run them.

Unless someone does a remake of one of them, 2wd will never get to where we would like to see it! My Opinion.

The modern pan has to be the back bone of any new 2wd effort. There are two that I know of available in the USA. There are more in Europe, we need them over here.

You are correct that a modern pan car is necessary but I do not consider that a phone number only dealer with no web presence (that I have been able to find) "available". Also cars which are 60% as complex, 75% as expensive with parts costing the same as 4wd parts, miss the point too.

Today in Toledo, or any where close by, there is no place to run these cars. The GT guys were up to the challenge I threw out when I asked if I could run a pan car with them. It was a plane non-turbo 3 port motor, P8C Motonica with a GT body. That car looked good with the bigger GT and is where you should look for now. Ricks RC 300 put on a great show, I loved it!, but running the sportscar body did not look right racing GT cars. I suggest that at this time any pan car should run a GT body to play with the other GTs.

I know the old GT bodies are hard to find and the Motonica isn't cheap, but to get things going, you have to look good on the track to create the interest. When we have enough pans to carry their own program, we build on that and do what ever we went. For now, prepare to race GTs.
I agree GT bodies on pan cars would be ideal, but from what I can find out the number and variety of 1/8 scale GT bodies are very limited and kinda expensive ($50 min). As far as looking right-Le Mans seems to run this exact mix. Find me some more variety, at $30... don't really want to see 10 Motonica GT bodies in an IROC class!
Does your comment on preparing to race GT's mean this week and next week or next year or ????


For what it cost to set a top notch 4wd car on the track for the first time, might be the same as running a top notch pan car a full season.

What about guys like me that can't afford to or want to go "top notch"?????

Ned (PITA)
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Old 07-25-2011, 02:58 PM   #488
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Just like to say that I brought my P8C to the Contrlfreakz track in Connecticut (site of this years ROAR Onroad Nitro Nationals) to run in one of their scheduled races. I knew I'd be in with the 4wd guys and get clobbered but wanted to give it try anyway.Rain showers in the late morning and through the afternoon cancelled the race , I was able to get out on the track twice and put some laps on the car. What amazed me was the amount of interest the car generated while out on the track and in the paddock area. More people than I expected wanted to talk about the car and this "new"class of european 1/8 scale.Maybe progress is being made!!
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Old 07-25-2011, 05:10 PM   #489
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If I need a passport to get in, what's it take to get out? ; )

Really, I would like to come up to bench race and see your projects, but no tickie, no washie.... I should have gotten a passport when my wife told me to. I thought I just kept me from going to Ireland with her, didn't know it would keep me from messing with RC cars!!!

Ned
too bad my wife is working just me and the loyal shop dog, last oct. when i was reserching too come back too rc i found the montonica. thought this looks great!. then found out no one ran one .then along comes matt and lon . i should have stuck with my gut feeling and got the pan the 966 is fun but a bit much for me. so once its sold there will be a new pan on the block. too hard too get rear end parts too scratch build a car
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:32 PM   #490
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too bad my wife is working just me and the loyal shop dog, last oct. when i was reserching too come back too rc i found the montonica. thought this looks great!. then found out no one ran one .then along comes matt and lon . i should have stuck with my gut feeling and got the pan the 966 is fun but a bit much for me. so once its sold there will be a new pan on the block. too hard too get rear end parts too scratch build a car
Gee I wish I could come and see your dog! I like dogs but my wife knows I won't take care of one, so I can't have one.....

You guys are in a bit different place on the pan cars than I am. With NO 1/8 scale around here, I feel I have to have a 4wd to run in Florida, Toledo, the MWS (Cinci mainly) and maybe elsewhere if a race pops up. If you can get 3 or 4 more pan guys and/or keep running with the GT's you can afford to get rid of 4wd for 2wd/pan. I never intended to get a pan and get rid of the 4wd.

I hope to build up some retro (great name) pan cars and mess around. I need to find bodies more suitable for a more reasonable price. As far as "rear end parts" to what specifically are you refering?" I just got an Associated ball dif rear axle and think I can duplicate that ok. I want to makle my own pod and front axle set-up at some point.

I hope you continue to mess with the home brew special, bring the parts you have if/when you come to Toledo the 31st and 7th, I'd like to check them out. Maybe if we get done early enough we could get somethling to eat and bench race a bit!

Ned
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:52 PM   #491
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I have spent enough time trying to explain my thoughts on this subject! When in Rome, do as the Romans. If the GT guys are sharing their track time with us for now, shouldn't we play along?
COST!! We didn't get into this hobby to save money! Most people are ready to lay out some cash to get into anything, even RC cars. Is it a good idea to tell the could be RC racer to look on E-bay? Finding these new cars isn't easy be cause there is no market for them right now, so we might have to help to create that market! It might take some time.
Any 2wd pan car offers a cheaper and easier racing program then a 4wd car (no matter the price). It could be a good first step into our hobby for the new guy, is enough fun that anyone should be able to play. Low tech enough that if you choose to run something less then top notch, you'll be in the hunt just the same.
So I have nothing more to add, talk is cheap! Let's RACE!!
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Old 07-26-2011, 02:36 AM   #492
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Originally Posted by Das 1/8th Mopar View Post
I have spent enough time trying to explain my thoughts on this subject! When in Rome, do as the Romans. If the GT guys are sharing their track time with us for now, shouldn't we play along?
COST!! We didn't get into this hobby to save money! Most people are ready to lay out some cash to get into anything, even RC cars. Is it a good idea to tell the could be RC racer to look on E-bay? Finding these new cars isn't easy be cause there is no market for them right now, so we might have to help to create that market! It might take some time.
Any 2wd pan car offers a cheaper and easier racing program then a 4wd car (no matter the price). It could be a good first step into our hobby for the new guy, is enough fun that anyone should be able to play. Low tech enough that if you choose to run something less then top notch, you'll be in the hunt just the same.
So I have nothing more to add, talk is cheap! Let's RACE!!
Ned has that effect on people on the forums. lol Ned gets the deal of a life time on 4wd cars and then post on here that anyone could get the same deal and save a bunch of money by going 4wd open racing VS a pan car. Ask Jon how cheap his cheap Sheephearder has been. lol
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Old 07-26-2011, 10:51 AM   #493
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canAm bodies are better because downforce will have the car work better. For beginners and advanced drivers, the car will be easier to drive and will be faster. In the short term it would be nice to race with gt group, but long term it would establish pan as a gt thing and that is not the goal.
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Old 07-26-2011, 11:23 AM   #494
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Glad you guys are using up bandwidth and entertaining yourselves with this discussion but if the intention of 2wd pan cars is the next great entry class you are kidding yourselves - how many entry or controlled cost classes have gone by the wayside - 2wd both 1/10th and 1/8th , super stock class , motor controls in 1/10th sedan to name a few. If an inexpensive class were what people wanted 1/8th 2wd suspension class would still be around , it was easy on motors , a lot easier on tires than 4wd let alone the fact you could run them to the rims without having to worry about overdrive and they will handle less than perfect track conditions much better than any pan car ever will whatever the vintage.
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Old 07-26-2011, 03:47 PM   #495
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Gee I wish I could come and see your dog! I like dogs but my wife knows I won't take care of one, so I can't have one.....

You guys are in a bit different place on the pan cars than I am. With NO 1/8 scale around here, I feel I have to have a 4wd to run in Florida, Toledo, the MWS (Cinci mainly) and maybe elsewhere if a race pops up. If you can get 3 or 4 more pan guys and/or keep running with the GT's you can afford to get rid of 4wd for 2wd/pan. I never intended to get a pan and get rid of the 4wd.

I hope to build up some retro (great name) pan cars and mess around. I need to find bodies more suitable for a more reasonable price. As far as "rear end parts" to what specifically are you refering?" I just got an Associated ball dif rear axle and think I can duplicate that ok. I want to makle my own pod and front axle set-up at some point.

I hope you continue to mess with the home brew special, bring the parts you have if/when you come to Toledo the 31st and 7th, I'd like to check them out. Maybe if we get done early enough we could get somethling to eat and bench race a bit!

Ned
will try too run my car with the gt guys like they did last time. will try and send some preview pics. how do you add pics on these messages?
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