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Old 11-08-2013, 11:10 AM   #3466
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Originally Posted by nitrohead5300 View Post
You guys have given me a idea for a winter project for 1/5 scale. Do you think the pivot plate technology you use for the 1/8 scale cars could be sucessfully applied to 1/5 scale?? A pivot plate on the front and back do you think it would handle?? Does anybody know if there were ever any 1/5 -1/4 scale pan cars??
Front and back maybe only if one end functions like a t bar
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:30 PM   #3467
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Thanks for your input.
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:13 PM   #3468
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Everything it takes to get into 2wd pan doesn't have to cost a lot. The racing with 3-ports will only help every level of driver to improve. I think we are going to be treated to some fine racing at the top. If only Jon would jump in too!

The idea of everyone coming on line with regards to motors is a real step in making 2wd pan a real class.

Sorry Phil, 2wd pan is coming together now, not later! You've always have been wanting to see it work, now's the time.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:24 PM   #3469
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Everything it takes to get into 2wd pan doesn't have to cost a lot. The racing with 3-ports will only help every level of driver to improve. I think we are going to be treated to some fine racing at the top. If only Jon would jump in too!

The idea of everyone coming on line with regards to motors is a real step in making 2wd pan a real class.

Sorry Phil, 2wd pan is coming together now, not later! You've always have been wanting to see it work, now's the time.
Who said anything about seeing stuff work?? I may run a 3 to the second power port, myself.

And for whoever asked about "articulated front" (cough cough suspension)...the answer is yes. No pics unfortunately, but a guy at the Winternats in '83 was trying to sell people on his idea of Indy races with 1/4 scale. It was large...and it had an articulated front end, the rest was all pan.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:28 PM   #3470
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Default Ah!

While I'm at it, we think we have an idea how to finally get all the flex we want, without using "articulated" anything. We'll have the prototype chassis mocked up sometime next week and bench test it. Sort of like a "t" chassis in the rear but still with a solid chassis, it wouldn't work with any other build but should do nicely with this one.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:58 PM   #3471
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Originally Posted by Das 1/8th Mopar View Post
Gary, Gary, Gary! What do you see that I don't? I see a nice state of the art pan car. It looks good! I do not see the end of anything. There will be a rush to get this car cause it looks neat. However the older cars will make it prove itself. We'll see if it can stay with an Extreme II. That front end would look nice with a open wheel body, don't you think? Maybe weak?

The car you have is going to show you allot of good times. If you do have a 3-port turbo motor, you're good to go! We're looking forward to racing with you as this class is nothing but Fun!
I guess when think of pan car beam axle in front was pan car now when get upper lower arms I see susp my theory only I will post my car later all ready go.
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:53 PM   #3472
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While I'm at it, we think we have an idea how to finally get all the flex we want, without using "articulated" anything. We'll have the prototype chassis mocked up sometime next week and bench test it. Sort of like a "t" chassis in the rear but still with a solid chassis, it wouldn't work with any other build but should do nicely with this one.
It sounds like you are going the same route as I am. Use a flexible chassis, put the motor pod somewhere near the center, drive the rear end with a drive shaft and U/CV joints.

Next step, decide where to hang the dampers! I was planning on using one per corner.

You do realize that if you keep this up, I'll have no reason to continue on mine, right?

I can't wait to see the photos!
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:54 PM   #3473
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While I'm at it, we think we have an idea how to finally get all the flex we want, without using "articulated" anything. We'll have the prototype chassis mocked up sometime next week and bench test it. Sort of like a "t" chassis in the rear but still with a solid chassis, it wouldn't work with any other build but should do nicely with this one.
got in touch with the ufra guys i think the donuts will work for our "inch" size vintage wheels. sent it too matt for second look
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:59 PM   #3474
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It sounds like you are going the same route as I am. Use a flexible chassis, put the motor pod somewhere near the center, drive the rear end with a drive shaft and U/CV joints.

Next step, decide where to hang the dampers! I was planning on using one per corner.

You do realize that if you keep this up, I'll have no reason to continue on mine, right?

I can't wait to see the photos!
I suggest you keep going. We didn't complete too many races last year due to prototype/design faults or improper prep. Our build probably, as is, has just enough to get the job done in Toledo, but probably isn't good enough.

If you've seen pics of our build (somewhere in the 2wd forum) you'll see we're using the Kyosho GT driveline (center mounted transmission, axle and diff), then use Edam drive pieces and our mounts from there out. We put a step under the diff, since the ring hangs down a tad, and it allows us to seal up the diff better. Looking at it, it seems I can slot the rear chassis from the sides towards the diff, and extend the diff step further forward onto the chassis, and use some type of mount with limited give in the front. This, plus what we already have for flex up forward, should get the job done, but we'll have to install a pivot brace of sorts as well to ensure the axle doesn't bind, or rear impact bend something.

An early problem we had (which I was far too stupid to realize soon enough) was in using the G10, some flex would occur between the transmission and bellhousing. Right turns mashed the gears, and left turns enabled the gap to spread, eventually stripping the gears. This was solved by putting in a stiffener, but that had the effect of limiting the flex up forward. Yeah, fix one thing and cause another problem somewhere else.

I may be wrong (and frequently am) but if I'm right, it should actually handle better in the turns than a WRC, for example, because the weight transference in a corner will work more to the middle of the car than the front or back exclusively. We'll get to keep the really sweet turning radius we already have, and possibly improve on it without picking up a tire or moving too much weight forward/aft.

Definitely keep up with what you're doing. It's frustrating but also fun to build a car, and you may possibly come up with something that works better than what is currently out there. We are the only class with room for innovation and imagination, and we need to use that to our advantage!
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:05 PM   #3475
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.

I may be wrong (and frequently am) but if I'm right, it should actually handle better in the turns than a WRC, for example, because the weight transference in a corner will work more to the middle of the car than the front or back exclusively. We'll get to keep the really sweet turning radius we already have, and possibly improve on it without picking up a tire or moving too much weight forward/aft.

!
.......Phil...when I had my 300 Davis car running...it was picking up the inside front tire through the infield...It didn't seem to handle any worse when it picked the tire up....I think as it did it loaded the outside front even harder and the car turned great under power.....Does a car with articulation in the rear have a greater propensity to lift the front tires than a front articulated car?...Maybe Davis can answer better with his heaps of experience....

I want to get the 300 out also to test...maybe Joe P has found us a tire source...for the 300 cars and your Deltas...
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:42 PM   #3476
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Yes if it's to soft in the rear

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.......Phil...when I had my 300 Davis car running...it was picking up the inside front tire through the infield...It didn't seem to handle any worse when it picked the tire up....I think as it did it loaded the outside front even harder and the car turned great under power.....Does a car with articulation in the rear have a greater propensity to lift the front tires than a front articulated car?...Maybe Davis can answer better with his heaps of experience....

I want to get the 300 out also to test...maybe Joe P has found us a tire source...for the 300 cars and your Deltas...
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:44 PM   #3477
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.......Phil...when I had my 300 Davis car running...it was picking up the inside front tire through the infield...It didn't seem to handle any worse when it picked the tire up....I think as it did it loaded the outside front even harder and the car turned great under power.....Does a car with articulation in the rear have a greater propensity to lift the front tires than a front articulated car?...Maybe Davis can answer better with his heaps of experience....

I want to get the 300 out also to test...maybe Joe P has found us a tire source...for the 300 cars and your Deltas...
No, the problem we had was lifting a rear tire, not a front. And depending on how tight the turn was, it'd rob the car of some snap out of the corner. Point to point driving was pretty good, and the car actually did pretty well in Dayton (Tom had a 2nd place in qualifying, and only his second time running the car) but it just didn't handle the sweeps well because of the rear tire lifting. We're thinking with this change, it'll allow the rear to stay planted better.

Most of the year was eaten up in building a prototype and testing it, then making mods. Errors in design which robbed reliability, too much weight, insufficient gearing options, lack of flex, etc. We think we have a handle on the weight, and I'm confident it is now reliable mechanically. The car had a good chance of 2nd at Dayton, but a battery pack, of all things, crapped out soon after the start. By the by, can anyone recommend a good Lipo pack for our cars?

We ate up the better part of the year in making changes. We were pretty far outside the box on our idea of a pan car, so no big surprise that we had issues and had to learn as we went. We believe the car is now fully reliable mechanically and is mostly newbie proof....so now starts the goal of making it more fully competitive.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:13 PM   #3478
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protek (a-main) has a 2300 ma lipo that is nice have it in my Razor2 same size as a nimh pack
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:23 AM   #3479
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I just checked out the DeltaPlastik web site. There are some really yummy 1/8 bodies on there, including a bunch of Formula cars for those of you who are talking about doing open-wheel oval racing:

http://deltaplastikusa.com/index.php...ory&path=59_61
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Old 11-09-2013, 07:41 AM   #3480
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Default Indy body/ finish due

European 2wd 1/8th pan car on-road Classic class-indy-due-001.jpg

European 2wd 1/8th pan car on-road Classic class-indy-due-002.jpg

European 2wd 1/8th pan car on-road Classic class-indy-due-003.jpg

European 2wd 1/8th pan car on-road Classic class-indy-due-006.jpg

European 2wd 1/8th pan car on-road Classic class-indy-due-008.jpg My FINISHED Due and Indy car body going run 2014 Williams Saudi
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