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Old 10-30-2013, 08:33 AM   #3346
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Originally Posted by aarcobra View Post
Phil,
Check the actual results, Joe was the top qualifier in almost all of the club races this year. He won more than 20 of 27 qualifying races! From the JLap records, which may be incomplete, Joe was the only one to get into the 21 second lap time. The best recorded lap for Rick was 22.7 to Joes 21.3. Joe generally qualified over 2 seconds faster than the second qualifier.

Not to take anything away from Rick. He is a great builder and driver for sure. And if he seriously runs in the pan class he will be right at the top. The point is that Joe is the fastest and most reliable pan racer in the USA!!! (I sold him my car!)

Ned
I too have tons of respect for Rick, but he not only brought a gun to a knife fight, he brought a shotgun. With three times the number of ports Joe had, his car was allot faster. I wish Rick had chosen something closer to what everyone else had. Yet it was very interesting to watch.
I got to watch some racing this year and Joe was truly the cream of the class. Running a car the fits right where we should be looking to go. My hats off to Joe for a super job! (Even with an old Ned car)
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:59 AM   #3347
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Why don't we set up rules for 2015 to be when they go into affect as it sounds like 2014 should be a forming up year. A year to test the waters for some and burn up what ever motors we have laying around, knowing what will be needed to be gotten for the up coming 2wd pan class.

Phil is working on getting a cheaper car into the class, that would help the class. So in turn since he has a very different lay out, turn him loose to try what ever he thinks might help. The fact it's a inline set up seems to put it into a strange gray area. That has nothing to do with Phil being strange!
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Old 10-30-2013, 11:48 AM   #3348
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Originally Posted by Das 1/8th Mopar View Post
Why don't we set up rules for 2015 to be when they go into affect as it sounds like 2014 should be a forming up year. A year to test the waters for some and burn up what ever motors we have laying around, knowing what will be needed to be gotten for the up coming 2wd pan class.

Phil is working on getting a cheaper car into the class, that would help the class. So in turn since he has a very different lay out, turn him loose to try what ever he thinks might help. The fact it's a inline set up seems to put it into a strange gray area. That has nothing to do with Phil being strange!
Meh...I don't think so.

I believe what we currently have will pass any rules came up with, unless someone wants to come up with a rule to specifically deny what we have. We'll continue to make modifications based on what we have and what is on the WRC....the rules will end up conforming to the current WRC so we'll be safe there. Anything else we come up with will be strictly for fun and our own use. We still have every intent to produce a car that people can afford and have fun with, but when it comes to innovation, I'll wait till Ned decides what I'm allowed to build (no, we're not playing nicely in the sandbox today.) I did not expect to have to conform to French rules (I don't keep up with what they're doing in France), to be the dictate for our reborn class, and after seeing what Rick built, I considered building something similar. Still can't see how I could be considered to be demanding to be exempt from a rule that does not exist (at least it didn't until last night), but hey, worst case scenario is that I build whatever I want and run it, just not for points. I haven't worried about points since 1985.

No worries Lon.....we'll have fun!
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Old 10-30-2013, 12:09 PM   #3349
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Here a thought, since have start from scratch why use ROAR start our own.
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:18 PM   #3350
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Some notes bench race
2011 bumpy track sweeper layout
I used lon sr pan car 3 port kit motor
21.7 fast lap with Sedan style body
16.6 1/8th car same layout
So I get a 22.7 or so for me on a glc layout
That also sounds like what lon and I ran messing around on glc layout that year


Joe T
2013 GLC smooth pave
13 laps 5:02 side fin race body
22.4 fast lap with side fin race body

now my 1:8 scale fast lap for those years
2011, 17.88
2012, 17.68
2013, 17.48

My est lap time with a current body and 5 port motor bottom 20s or mid 20s
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Old 10-30-2013, 02:56 PM   #3351
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Meh...I don't think so.

.... I'll wait till Ned decides what I'm allowed to build (no, we're not playing nicely in the sandbox today.)
Phil, you have finally convinced me that I'm nothing but an A-hole, who just wants to have things my own way and cares nothing for what anybody else thinks.

Thank you for your opening my eyes.

I have better things to do that waste my time on here....

Ned
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Old 10-30-2013, 05:07 PM   #3352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Das 1/8th Mopar View Post
This forum reminds of a sand box on the play ground. When we aren't working together, it's not such a fun place to be, but when you are, it's a joy! You guys seem to be on a roll, keep it up.
I think we have look at what we have so far and try find common ground for all. Since we have no rules start with we doing all by scratch and we have give and take find common ground for one good set rules. We have no ROAR help we on our own.
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Old 10-30-2013, 06:01 PM   #3353
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Originally Posted by aarcobra View Post
Phil, you have finally convinced me that I'm nothing but an A-hole, who just wants to have things my own way and cares nothing for what anybody else thinks.

Thank you for your opening my eyes.

I have better things to do that waste my time on here....

Ned
ned, that sounds like most people that work in a mach. shop !!! you have been on here since it was just a couple of us , no time too bail now. yes joe t had a great year like watching red bulls f1 team. i plan on playing too my strengths next year i'm more of a builder than driver and have a car on the go at this time. lets say it's rc 300 inspired and i plan on the vintage bods from time too time cause matts looked great. thats my fun, building and bench BSing with every one.
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:01 PM   #3354
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ned, that sounds like most people that work in a mach. shop !!! you have been on here since it was just a couple of us , no time too bail now. yes joe t had a great year like watching red bulls f1 team. i plan on playing too my strengths next year i'm more of a builder than driver and have a car on the go at this time. lets say it's rc 300 inspired and i plan on the vintage bods from time too time cause matts looked great. thats my fun, building and bench BSing with every one.
Just the man I'm looking for...did you ever find a link for some pinion stock? Tom has a few ideas for it and I want some more options for tooth count....much appreciated if you have anything.
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:28 PM   #3355
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I REALLY appreciate all the work all of you guys are doing to come to a consensus on these rules. I know it can be difficult and please try to remember not to attach your "personality" to the rules you suggest. You all have a great amount of common sense and experience to draw on. I'm looking forward to the end result.
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:10 AM   #3356
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Suggestion - use the Rules that are in place where the 8th Pan Class is being raced from the Race Organization that Sanctions the Races where the majority of Pan Cars are produced. Simple.

Basic European EFRA Pan Rules:
Specifications of flat chassis cars:
rear wheel propulsion only
one engine (one cylinder, 3.50 ccm air cooled)
brake on rear axle only
no gear box
no suspension, an articulated front end is allowed
5.21. The minimum weight limit of the cars:
2300 grams for 2 WD cars.

Detailed EFRA Rules - http://news.efra.ws/fileadmin/docume...andb13App1.pdf
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Old 10-31-2013, 06:51 AM   #3357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElliotCanada View Post
Suggestion - use the Rules that are in place where the 8th Pan Class is being raced from the Race Organization that Sanctions the Races where the majority of Pan Cars are produced. Simple.

Basic European EFRA Pan Rules:
Specifications of flat chassis cars:
rear wheel propulsion only
one engine (one cylinder, 3.50 ccm air cooled)
brake on rear axle only
no gear box
no suspension, an articulated front end is allowed
5.21. The minimum weight limit of the cars:
2300 grams for 2 WD cars.

Detailed EFRA Rules - http://news.efra.ws/fileadmin/docume...andb13App1.pdf
That would leave most new cars built today from pan class since brakes work of 2 speed shaft or gear shaft.
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Old 10-31-2013, 08:03 AM   #3358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElliotCanada View Post
Suggestion - use the Rules that are in place where the 8th Pan Class is being raced from the Race Organization that Sanctions the Races where the majority of Pan Cars are produced. Simple.

Basic European EFRA Pan Rules:
Specifications of flat chassis cars:
rear wheel propulsion only
one engine (one cylinder, 3.50 ccm air cooled)
brake on rear axle only
no gear box
no suspension, an articulated front end is allowed
5.21. The minimum weight limit of the cars:
2300 grams for 2 WD cars.

Detailed EFRA Rules - http://news.efra.ws/fileadmin/docume...andb13App1.pdf
...and the no gear box rule.....would exclude Cring's car...it has a gearbox.....
aren't belts/pulleys a form of "gearbox"??.......
we need simple rules.....

1) up to 5 port turbo or non turbo... .21
2) any body....older bodies encouraged
3) 125 cc tank
4) single speed..belt or gear reduction ok..
5) one articulation...either front or back...friction damping only..
6) brakes rear of car only...
7) no oil filled dampers
8) I guess I have no problem with locked out suspension...don't see an advantage..they will probably weigh more...
9) Use wheelbase /track limits of 4WD rules...
10) I think Centax clutches ok...I saw NO advantage in my pan..
If anything...harder to tune in a pan...
11) 2300g tank empty....
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:09 AM   #3359
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Default Oh....joy....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylorm View Post
...and the no gear box rule.....would exclude Cring's car...it has a gearbox.....
aren't belts/pulleys a form of "gearbox"??.......
we need simple rules.....

1) up to 5 port turbo or non turbo... .21
2) any body....older bodies encouraged
3) 125 cc tank
4) single speed..belt or gear reduction ok..
5) one articulation...either front or back...friction damping only..
6) brakes rear of car only...
7) no oil filled dampers
8) I guess I have no problem with locked out suspension...don't see an advantage..they will probably weigh more...
9) Use wheelbase /track limits of 4WD rules...
10) I think Centax clutches ok...I saw NO advantage in my pan..
If anything...harder to tune in a pan...
11) 2300g tank empty....
I spoke too soon, I assumed we could proceed with manufacture of what we have at least. With that rule proposal on the floor and the potential for its incorporation, we are now officially at all stop on this end. Granted, any geared diff could be considered a type of gearbox, tho I would assume (see, there's a mistake right there, assuming) that a gearbox is meant to be defined as multi-gear/multi speed, but others could get selective on the definition and it'd still rule us out. Doesn't mean we can't still play, of course, just means we can't produce a car for sale. In any event, it'd be silly for us to proceed with manufacture with the possibility of our product being excluded. I've pulled myself out of the voting process on the "rules" as I've explained, we are content to sit back and wait for the consensus, and we'll work with whatever we're left to work with.
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Old 10-31-2013, 09:29 AM   #3360
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There is no confusing what a "gear box is" if someone doesnt well maybe they should a new hobby its pretty clear to me what a diff is and what a 2 speed is.
Can be amended to no multi speed transmissions and no vbt

Taylors list is pretty good, simple and cover a bunch
Seems fine lets not over cimplicate

Very good seems finw for 2014
And no "4wd" motors the motor rules is huge
And very important I love the lesser motor rule
The faster motors are just going to make a bigger difference between driver ....this will make for better racing
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Last edited by Vector03cobra; 10-31-2013 at 09:42 AM.
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