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Old 10-21-2013, 01:35 PM   #3241
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But now is when all the money savings begin. You have the car, so from here on out you will save a fortune on tires, fuel, motors, and parts over a season. Against 1/8 4WD trust me there is no comparison regarding running costs. Not to mention, you will spend less time wrenching and more time having fun on the track!

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I belive that's point hear just bought car and motor and cost was $730.00 with out servos which depends what want spend from $ 40.00-120.00 and battery pack $30.00 and body another $30.00 you have close to 1000.00 for pan car.
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:20 PM   #3242
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But now is when all the money savings begin. You have the car, so from here on out you will save a fortune on tires, fuel, motors, and parts over a season. Against 1/8 4WD trust me there is no comparison regarding running costs. Not to mention, you will spend less time wrenching and more time having fun on the track!
True, I used the least amount of tires but I also did the least amount of running I have done for a season, and it was 35 sets. 1/8th 4wd but some could use less.
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Old 10-22-2013, 05:38 AM   #3243
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But now is when all the money savings begin. You have the car, so from here on out you will save a fortune on tires, fuel, motors, and parts over a season. Against 1/8 4WD trust me there is no comparison regarding running costs. Not to mention, you will spend less time wrenching and more time having fun on the track!
I was talking about first time buyer to get into sport for me I no what I was in for with cost. Hard to get new blood when say have spend 1000.00 to get started and that's not with support items.
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:17 AM   #3244
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I belive that's point hear just bought car and motor and cost was $730.00 with out servos which depends what want spend from $ 40.00-120.00 and battery pack $30.00 and body another $30.00 you have close to 1000.00 for pan car.
730 for car and motor????.....$150.00 motors power
These cars just fine... And can usually be run more than one
season...cheap servos can be ran....30.00 battery pack???.....I buy cheap
packs from cheapbatterypacks.com http://cheapbatterypacks.com/product...-1500-23A.aspx this is the most
economical class in RC... Throw in low fuel consumption
and free 4wd tires... Even the "low budget" electric guys would
be impressed....
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:42 PM   #3245
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I was talking about first time buyer to get into sport for me I no what I was in for with cost. Hard to get new blood when say have spend 1000.00 to get started and that's not with support items.
Well, there it is, in a nutshell.

Our hobby isn't for everyone, and unfortunately, cost is a big part of what keeps people out. I was reading somewhere that people have less disposable income than they did 10 years ago....true. And when you factor in travel, race fees, etc., the cost can only go up.

My whole purpose of getting into Edam 4wd (someone wake up Lon) was to help others find an semi-affordable ride. Our purpose in building the Sherman tank of pans is similar. And I buy tires in the off season from Doug, as well as fuel, and shop for cheap plugs and so forth.

Point being, this hobby has never been "cheap." Your level of participation and desire to play in the same sandbox comes with a price tag, same as any other hobby. Some guys sky dive, some do scuba, and believe it or not, I've seen mountain bikes that sell for 7000 bucks and up (oh...joy....7k to work like hell ruining your knees and lungs on scarcely covered trails where if you have an accident you'll have to hope for an indian guide to help you walk out....) but we're doing what we can to help.

I'm confident if you ask any participant in this forum, they'll be glad to share time and stuff in order to get you running and keep you running. But whether a person gets into this thing of ours does depend to some extent on the depth of their pockets, can't be helped entirely, and that is why all of us in here at one time or another have advised people to shop carefully to ensure that their intent on having fun doesn't run into their ability to pay their bills.

I got into 4wd on an initial budget of about 600 bucks, including car, body, servos, etc. We built a pan on a budget of about 200 bucks, but that was making a lot of our own parts and using what we had on hand from other things. 1000 bucks sounds about right for a complete build and some extras, and hopefully...eventually...the used car market will help some other newbie get a foothold into what we do, but 1k doesn't sound excessive alongside some guys who've spent 500 for an engine, or who spend 150 bucks in gas money round trip just to make a club race (and I think I made at least six club races this year, just to give you some perspective.) Best of luck to you and yours in the upcoming race season, and here's hoping you have FUN.
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:36 PM   #3246
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Well, there it is, in a nutshell.

Our hobby isn't for everyone, and unfortunately, cost is a big part of what keeps people out. I was reading somewhere that people have less disposable income than they did 10 years ago....true. And when you factor in travel, race fees, etc., the cost can only go up.

My whole purpose of getting into Edam 4wd (someone wake up Lon) was to help others find an semi-affordable ride. Our purpose in building the Sherman tank of pans is similar. And I buy tires in the off season from Doug, as well as fuel, and shop for cheap plugs and so forth.

Point being, this hobby has never been "cheap." Your level of participation and desire to play in the same sandbox comes with a price tag, same as any other hobby. Some guys sky dive, some do scuba, and believe it or not, I've seen mountain bikes that sell for 7000 bucks and up (oh...joy....7k to work like hell ruining your knees and lungs on scarcely covered trails where if you have an accident you'll have to hope for an indian guide to help you walk out....) but we're doing what we can to help.

I'm confident if you ask any participant in this forum, they'll be glad to share time and stuff in order to get you running and keep you running. But whether a person gets into this thing of ours does depend to some extent on the depth of their pockets, can't be helped entirely, and that is why all of us in here at one time or another have advised people to shop carefully to ensure that their intent on having fun doesn't run into their ability to pay their bills.

I got into 4wd on an initial budget of about 600 bucks, including car, body, servos, etc. We built a pan on a budget of about 200 bucks, but that was making a lot of our own parts and using what we had on hand from other things. 1000 bucks sounds about right for a complete build and some extras, and hopefully...eventually...the used car market will help some other newbie get a foothold into what we do, but 1k doesn't sound excessive alongside some guys who've spent 500 for an engine, or who spend 150 bucks in gas money round trip just to make a club race (and I think I made at least six club races this year, just to give you some perspective.) Best of luck to you and yours in the upcoming race season, and here's hoping you have FUN.
You guys missing hole point if you had choice between $1000.00 car or $500.00 ready to go which would you buy. PLus if u had race every day at local track or once month for that car which would u buy? As far as money I spend what want or need to race no budget has been for 40 years in Midwest series. When hard core racers are done in Midwest so will series be done cause no new blood and cost dosent help.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:24 PM   #3247
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I think we all share the same attitude and goals. I know that Phil and the others all care deeply about rc racing and want nothing more than to see the hobby grow. I'm sure of that.

Unfortunately, in the present day $500 does not buy what it did in the 70s. Or rather, adjusting for inflation $500 today was in 1976 $120. So, if you look on a kit box for an RC200 or similar car from back then, I think they are marked as $125-$150 for the kit. So, adjusting for inflation, the 70s pan kit cost $515.00 FOR THE KIT ONLY. These may not be exact numbers but you get the idea:

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com

So in reality, the WRC GT Due Kits we are selling ARE CHEAPER THAN PAN CARS IN THE 70s! This may be hard to accept but its a fact. And I would like folks to know that I did a lot of work with WRC to negotiate a better price for the GT Due kits. Though the kits are not cheap, it would cost over $550 to order one from Europe, and considering the Euro/Dollar exchange rate, this is a good deal for a product made in Italy (importing products made in some parts of Asia is much cheaper). The GT Due should cost $485 here in the U.S., but I have been able to sell them for $425, which in my mind is a good deal, and if someone else was the dealer, I would happily pay that price. Of course, if there was a Chinese/Taiwanese made pan car, you might find a lower priced kit, but this is because of the labor cost difference and exchange rate difference. This is also part of the reason that Xray products are more expensive than Serpent products.

Of course we would love to have a great RTR setup for $500, who wouldn't. The reality is that I wouldn't enjoyed racing the kind of RC car you can buy for $500 RTR. However, as TAYLORM points out, there are many ways of getting closer to this price than you might think. I also run touring car and all my motors have been bought on RCtech, new in the box, and I have paid about half price for them. And I run many used and used but like-new items that are a good deal here and on ebay, not to mention there are many affordable radio systems and motors that work just fine in this class one can buy for a good price.

In Europe the WRC GT Due sells for 350 Euro, a good price. And all my pricing and business with the company is done in Euros. So when I make a purchase from them, I have to send Euros, with an exchange rate of about $1.38 per Euro PLUS a bank conversion fee of about 4.0%, working out to approximately $1.42 my cost for every Euro of product purchased, or $4200 added to every $10,000 order I place. Not including shipping cost, and import tax. Then when selling to customers, the 2-3% Paypal or Credit Card fee taken from sales, and the all mighty income tax. What can I say, it is what it is.

You are correct that this is not an RTR class, but its also important to take into consideration the down side of that option. For many beginners who buy Ready-to-Run cars, they end up spending more than the guy who bought good equipment in the first place. What comes in those kits is often disposable, short term quality that needs replacing early on.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:25 PM   #3248
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You guys missing hole point if you had choice between $1000.00 car or $500.00 ready to go which would you buy. PLus if u had race every day at local track or once month for that car which would u buy? As far as money I spend what want or need to race no budget has been for 40 years in Midwest series. When hard core racers are done in Midwest so will series be done cause no new blood and cost dosent help.
To the best of my knowledge, there is only one RTR 1/8 4wd on the market, that being the Edam, and I've yet to import those because I don't know there is a demand (about 400 my cost.) GT has a few RTR's but they aren't cheap either. Clubs are hesitant to allow the 1/10th scale RTR to run, I suspect because of the "basher" quotient (I say, let 'em all run, just put them in a class of their own if need be) and a lot of the 1/10 RTR's come with engines larger than .12 which makes them illegal as per our rules. There is no denying that we are a niche market....I would expect most of our members have a large interest and are dedicated to this thing we do because there is just no equivalent to it.

I'm of the opinion that pan will do a lot toward getting new blood into our hobby, since it is cheaper and far more durable, but it will take time and will still cost a certain amount. For myself, I could have spent a lot less money and ran offroad locally, or I could have taken up model planes and done that as well (very nice airfield 1/4 mile away on my road) but this is what I started in back in 1978, it's what I got back into in '11 after a 27 year layoff, and it's the only area in remote control that I have any interest in.

The points you bring up have been brought up many times in this forum, quite often by those of us who are looking to save a buck or make it more affordable for the newbie. If you find any alternatives to what we do that would make it more cost effective, please feel free to share them with us....everyone in here has great interest in expanding our hobby to others.
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Old 10-23-2013, 04:35 PM   #3249
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I think we all share the same attitude and goals. I know that Phil and the others all care deeply about rc racing and want nothing more than to see the hobby grow. I'm sure of that.

Unfortunately, in the present day $500 does not buy what it did in the 70s. Or rather, adjusting for inflation $500 today was in 1978 $115. So, if you look on a kit box for an RC200 or RC300, I think they are marked as $125-$175 for the kit. So, adjusting for inflation, the 70s pan kit cost $540.00 FOR THE KIT ONLY.

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com

So in reality, the WRC GT Due Kits I am selling ARE CHEAPER THAN PAN CARS IN THE 70s! This may be hard to accept but its a fact.

Of course we would love to have a great RTR setup for $500, who wouldn't. The reality is that I wouldn't enjoyed racing the kind of RC car you can buy for $500. However, as TAYLORM points out, there are ways of getting closer to this than you might thin. I also run touring car and all my motors have been bought on RCtech, new in the box, and I have paid about half price for them. And I run many used and used but like-new items that are a good deal here and on ebay, not to mention there are many affordable radio systems and motors that work just fine in this class one can buy for a good price.

You are correct that this is not an RTR class, but its important to take into consideration the down side of that option. For many beginners who buy Ready-to-Run cars, they end up spending more than the guy who bought a good radio in the first place. What comes in those kits is often disposable, sort term quality that needs replacing.
Try again. In 1984, the price of a Super Eagle was 480.00, that was just the kit and one set of tires. Granted, it was the best car money could buy, and you used a lot less spares because of the durability of the thing, but the initial outlay for the newbie was still close to 1000 or better after factoring in engine, radio, starter box, etc. Basically, you had to be pretty serious about this hobby to get into it. On the flip side, pan was superstock back then, and a newbie could usually pick up a complete car, be it Associated, MRP, or Delta, for a couple hundred used from someone who was upgrading. Since we're starting from scratch again with pan, there simply is no used car market, especially when the 35 year old pan car is worth two to three times what you're selling new cars for. We on this end have hopes of producing a pan car to sell (better, faster and cheaper, of course, lol) but I give you full credit for stepping up and importing the things, and selling them for what appears to me to be a very fair price. We're never going to be all things to all people, but we do what we can.....
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Old 10-23-2013, 05:07 PM   #3250
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Hitcharide, I was re-crunching numbers while you quoted me to be more accurate with dates for a particular kit, so my quote change FYI. But I love that bit of info you just shared!

1984 Delta Super Eagle: $480
Todays price with inflation: $1,080

This is funny. We assume RC has gotten more expensive BUT ITS SIMPLY NOT TRUE. I sometimes here this at the track: "You used to be able to by a car for $200 and now they are way too expensive"

The fact is its cheaper than it was, and the reason the hobby is not growing can more likely be attributed to video games, the changing culture, and the fact that fewer and fewer Americans know how to build things. Remember RC Cars (and Airplanes) grew out of the industrial revolution and military culture, at a time when huge numbers of Americans were mechanics, machinists and the like. PEOPLE HAVE CHANGED MORE THAN RC
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:50 PM   #3251
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Be careful playing with numbers. Although the numbers Jason and Phil are quoting are correct, they are not the whole story. The $480 price is a LIST price not what the cars actually sold for. There was a 50% mark-up at the hobby shop and then and as now, the kits sold for much less than list.

Also, then as now, there were many sponsorships that trickled down and helped many race for less. I recently bought a new, in the box, top-of-line 1/8th scale 4wd car for around 60% of list.

The point is list price is pretty much meaningless except in a few cases, unfortunately, Motonica, WRC, and the other Classic Pan cars seem to be on the high side when it comes to prices, at least at the present time. Some of this is undoubtedly the import situation, but since most of the cars available in all classes of RC are imported there must be more to it.....

Another point is that 1/8th on-road seems to be pretty much the least popular class at this time. Off-road is obviously Number 1 and doing very well all over the country. Many other classes are doing much better than 1/8th on-road.

As has been mentioned, this has been discussed many times on this thread and the reasons are many, finding a place for a track, no R-T-R cars for "instant gratification", noise, fewer "mechanics", cost, etc. As I see it the lack of entry level cars and racing tracks not being in the public eye are the main problems.

Look at it this way, if cars in other classes can sell for the very low prices that they do today, so could the 1/8th on-road cars. Since the interest is low, the price is high. The insistence that the cars must be the "state-of-the-art" and "the F1 of RC" (even the new Classic Pans are much more complex than needed IMHO!) hurts more than it helps.
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:02 PM   #3252
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The point is list price is pretty much meaningless except in a few cases, unfortunately, Motonica, WRC, and the other Classic Pan cars seem to be on the high side when it comes to prices, at least at the present time. Some of this is undoubtedly the import situation, but since most of the cars available in all classes of RC are imported there must be more to it.....

.
..not just the import situation....but the "where"..........being produced in Italy...(Motonica-WRC)..I assume workers at these places make more than the slave labor that (cough) produced my screamin Edam..(cough).....hell...Apple had to put nets around their building because workers were jumping to their deaths...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...1-12-hour.html
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:08 PM   #3253
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The relatively high price of pan cars - relative to their complexity - is mainly due to the low volumes they are produced in. If they were produced in the volumes that an 1/8th scale offroad buggy is, I'd bet the WRC could sell for $200.

In spite of that, it is still by far the least expensive of the current nitro onroad classes you can race. Keeping with the theme of cheap racing, I'm using $32 Turnigy titanium geared HV servos, a $9 Turnigy lipo and a $10 Turnigy Spektrum receiver in mine. A perfect marriage of Italian racing heritage and the lowest price Chinese electronics....and of course a cheap $175 3 port buggy motor. i also run the $36 Dynamite hard anodized 086 pipe - awesome pipe at an awesome price.

Well under a grand, ready to race.
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:46 PM   #3254
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The relatively high price of pan cars - relative to their complexity - is mainly due to the low volumes they are produced in. If they were produced in the volumes that an 1/8th scale offroad buggy is, I'd bet the WRC could sell for $200.

In spite of that, it is still by far the least expensive of the current nitro onroad classes you can race. Keeping with the theme of cheap racing, I'm using $32 Turnigy titanium geared HV servos, a $9 Turnigy lipo and a $10 Turnigy Spektrum receiver in mine. A perfect marriage of Italian racing heritage and the lowest price Chinese electronics....and of course a cheap $175 3 port buggy motor. i also run the $36 Dynamite hard anodized 086 pipe - awesome pipe at an awesome price.

Well under a grand, ready to race.
Complete agreement with that...low volume means higher cost. When we start producing our pan car, we won't make diddly off the first sales, it's to be expected. We won't even have the advantage of machine production, as all our parts will basically be hand crafted. That's partly why I considered trying to get Edam to produce a pan, but the reception thus far has been lukewarm, and besides, we want the fun of making a car.

As for parts....I'm running Matrix tires and Kosmic fuel, courtesy of Doug Filo, who is saving me a bunch of money over the course of a year. All our plastic/nylon pieces are courtesy of Edam, which are VERY inexpensive. A Main hobbies cuts me a deal so I save a buck on bodies, batteries come courtesy of Ebay...we're running O'Donnell plugs at two bucks a pop and a plug lasted me three races, which is incredible. About the only real "splurge" item has been the Hudy bump box...it costs a few bucks, but it's powerful and lightweight. Not counting design flaws on our build, the entire breakdown/repair bill for the year with our pan was about six bucks, we broke one front hub and one rear hub (3 bucks a pop each). We can expect similar future performance, so by running cast off 4wd tires and cheap (but still very good) fuel, the cost outlay to run pan over the course of a year is far and away the best bang for the buck.
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:51 AM   #3255
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Complete agreement with that...low volume means higher cost. When we start producing our pan car, we won't make diddly off the first sales, it's to be expected. We won't even have the advantage of machine production, as all our parts will basically be hand crafted. That's partly why I considered trying to get Edam to produce a pan, but the reception thus far has been lukewarm, and besides, we want the fun of making a car.

As for parts....I'm running Matrix tires and Kosmic fuel, courtesy of Doug Filo, who is saving me a bunch of money over the course of a year. All our plastic/nylon pieces are courtesy of Edam, which are VERY inexpensive. A Main hobbies cuts me a deal so I save a buck on bodies, batteries come courtesy of Ebay...we're running O'Donnell plugs at two bucks a pop and a plug lasted me three races, which is incredible. About the only real "splurge" item has been the Hudy bump box...it costs a few bucks, but it's powerful and lightweight. Not counting design flaws on our build, the entire breakdown/repair bill for the year with our pan was about six bucks, we broke one front hub and one rear hub (3 bucks a pop each). We can expect similar future performance, so by running cast off 4wd tires and cheap (but still very good) fuel, the cost outlay to run pan over the course of a year is far and away the best bang for the buck.
Ok guys see you all at track next year in 2014 i have enough work here keep our club alive.
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