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Old 05-20-2013, 10:59 PM   #2761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Das 1/8th Mopar View Post
Sorry Ned, every lap in the main was run by a hard to get European car. Parts aren't easy to get and they aren't cheap. The race was won by a car with no spares at all. I'd say everyone had a great time (some more then others). I'm to old to spend much time waiting for anything. I'd like everybody that got into this hobby to "save money", hold up your hand. Bet you don't see allot of hands up.

LETS RACE SOME MORE!!
Well...it's saving money vs. the alternatives. I think I've found a good way of doing it as concerns 4wd, and I'm pretty sure I'm offering them for sale cheaper than any other kit in existence. By the end of this year, I'll either be manufacturing my version of a pan, selling Edams version, or manufacturing an Edam style version, and it too will be cheaper than the alternatives (the Edam version is the most likely outcome since it'll require the least work, be belt drive which everyone is familiar with). Probably lose money doing it too, at least at the start, but been talking about it with David and he's interested in going this route as well.

I survived the trip up north (oy veh) and Louise is doing much better, she's off most of the drips, released from ICU into a regular room, and we're hoping she can be released by the weekend. Her b.p. at one point was down to about 60/40, kidneys not working, etc....so the doctors have done well and she is resting comfortably. Many thanx for the prayers and support...and hopefully in a few weeks I can start ragging her about screwing up a perfectly good race weekend, I'll wait till she's well enough to kick my butt in return.

Just out of curiosity, what is a Whiting special selling for?
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:25 AM   #2762
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Originally Posted by Das 1/8th Mopar View Post
Sorry Ned, every lap in the main was run by a hard to get European car. Parts aren't easy to get and they aren't cheap. The race was won by a car with no spares at all. I'd say everyone had a great time (some more then others). I'm to old to spend much time waiting for anything. I'd like everybody that got into this hobby to "save money", hold up your hand. Bet you don't see allot of hands up.

LETS RACE SOME MORE!!
My problem with any of the modern pan cars is the availabilty of cars and parts and cost.
Unless you have an unlimited budget for parts and shipping or can improvise when something breaks, I would suggest holding off on any decision. THere are a number of folks working on pan cars from many angles and I'm sure eventually things will be sorted out...

Lon,

I don't understand your comment at all. My point was to MrHistory that before he buys a car directly from overseas he may want to wait a bit to see if anything works out with what YOU are are working on.

I have no confidence that any of the "homemade" cars will ever be available at all, let alone at a reasonable price and performance level. And that includes mine. As we determined quite awhile ago, car like the Motonica are really the only way to go and my point is that right now the cost to get a pan car is much higher that it was when they were available from Garen. Maybe that is about to change.

Gotta admit, I'm losing interest in all of this.
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:22 AM   #2763
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Nothing about this hobby is cheap... If someone
wants to save money... You just quit and stand
on the other side of the fence... I think we
persuade Cring to take the Edam parts
and build a belt car... From the 4wd kit you
can use all the axles/ driveshaft/ tank/ clutch/ rear bulkhead
/ brake setup/ knuckles / bumper etc... The only parts needed
to be made are the chassis/ radio plate and
blocks to mount hubs...
I'm not even totally convinced these cars need a diff.
when my car was running briefly this Sunday it
exhibited none of traction/ no traction hop
stuff you sometimes get with a solid axle...maybe
chassis is correct stiffness to let inside tire float
like a go kart???
Arguing about cars is getting us to a dead end fast
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Old 05-21-2013, 10:25 AM   #2764
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Default SORRY!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aarcobra View Post
My problem with any of the modern pan cars is the availabilty of cars and parts and cost.
Unless you have an unlimited budget for parts and shipping or can improvise when something breaks, I would suggest holding off on any decision. THere are a number of folks working on pan cars from many angles and I'm sure eventually things will be sorted out...

Lon,

I don't understand your comment at all. My point was to MrHistory that before he buys a car directly from overseas he may want to wait a bit to see if anything works out with what YOU are are working on.

I have no confidence that any of the "homemade" cars will ever be available at all, let alone at a reasonable price and performance level. And that includes mine. As we determined quite awhile ago, car like the Motonica are really the only way to go and my point is that right now the cost to get a pan car is much higher that it was when they were available from Garen. Maybe that is about to change.

Gotta admit, I'm losing interest in all of this.
Sorry Ned, I miss understood your point. As you know all to well, I don't always get it.
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:20 AM   #2765
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Default Not arguing at all...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylorm View Post
Nothing about this hobby is cheap... If someone
wants to save money... You just quit and stand
on the other side of the fence... I think we
persuade Cring to take the Edam parts
and build a belt car... From the 4wd kit you
can use all the axles/ driveshaft/ tank/ clutch/ rear bulkhead
/ brake setup/ knuckles / bumper etc... The only parts needed
to be made are the chassis/ radio plate and
blocks to mount hubs...
I'm not even totally convinced these cars need a diff.
when my car was running briefly this Sunday it
exhibited none of traction/ no traction hop
stuff you sometimes get with a solid axle...maybe
chassis is correct stiffness to let inside tire float
like a go kart???
Arguing about cars is getting us to a dead end fast
Matt,
Not arguing at all. Just stating my opinion based on 40+ years of racing and building 1/8th scale cars.

I was going to say more but why........................
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:41 AM   #2766
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Default DFX Info

Phil,

Here are two listings for the DFX car(s). Jeff bought the "Preimum", mine is the "Vortex" (Cool ground effects diffuser!).

My shipping was $70. from imodel, I think Jeff got theirs from the border.



http://www.the-border.com/DXF-PREMIU...acing-.21.html

http://imodel.fr/377-dxf
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:43 AM   #2767
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Default That did it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylorm View Post
Nothing about this hobby is cheap... If someone
wants to save money... You just quit and stand
on the other side of the fence... I think we
persuade Cring to take the Edam parts
and build a belt car... From the 4wd kit you
can use all the axles/ driveshaft/ tank/ clutch/ rear bulkhead
/ brake setup/ knuckles / bumper etc... The only parts needed
to be made are the chassis/ radio plate and
blocks to mount hubs...
I'm not even totally convinced these cars need a diff.
when my car was running briefly this Sunday it
exhibited none of traction/ no traction hop
stuff you sometimes get with a solid axle...maybe
chassis is correct stiffness to let inside tire float
like a go kart???
Arguing about cars is getting us to a dead end fast
I've been waiting to put in an order...one problem with ordering stuff from overseas is the shipping and handling, I try to combine orders to cut down on cost, and I've been waiting on a person to make up their mind (a new guy in Delaware)...hmm.

Anyhoo, I'll have the diff ordered tomorrow, and should be placing an order with Edam by the end of the week. One thing I'll be ordering is an RTR....along with field testing their engine and radio setup, I'll be installing a diff, converting the front end to my design (or rather, Deltas design) and locking out the rear suspension. I may have to fabricate rear blocks, I don't know yet, but I will get the stuff ordered, put it together, run it, and determine just what it costs me to do it. At this point, I know my costs will be less than 500 bucks.

Problem...I still have a 4wd to maintain, I'm still working and running my prototype, so I need a "hired gun" to test the quasi Edam build when it's complete. My goal is to provide a pan RTR as close to 500 bucks or less, I'll do the first run of it, but I'd like to hand it off to a few different drivers for their imput/criticism afterwards, and of course, I'll supply everything needed parts-wise.

Any takers?
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:53 AM   #2768
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Default Hmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by aarcobra View Post
Phil,

Here are two listings for the DFX car(s). Jeff bought the "Preimum", mine is the "Vortex" (Cool ground effects diffuser!).

My shipping was $70. from imodel, I think Jeff got theirs from the border.



http://www.the-border.com/DXF-PREMIU...acing-.21.html

http://imodel.fr/377-dxf
It's a good looking car (front end looks weak) but definitely an eye turner. But the website you threw me, they want 624 bucks for the thing plus shipping! I can nearly sell two Edam 4wd's for that kind of cash...or rather, a person could buy a 4wd from me, buy cheap engine and electronics, and be RTR for that much or less. The Vortex is significantly cheaper, but it still seems like a pricey bump into what should be a newbie class. I'll give them credit, at least they are producing a pan car, and from what the guys tell me, it definitely performs on the track....but maybe I can do a little better, we'll see.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:18 PM   #2769
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Hi Guys
How many of you out there are running the Motonica? I dont need to hear from everyone,e perhaps someone can throw out a figure...

Also, what parts would be needed to maintain and run the P8C for a year? An itemized list would be helpful: which parts are replaces often, who needs what, etc. Please tell me like x # of parts, and which ones. I realize this depends on the driver but it would be helpful to have a rough estimate of what we need.

I am trying to source some parts for everyone for this season so let me know.
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Old 05-21-2013, 03:46 PM   #2770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aarcobra View Post
Phil,

Here are two listings for the DFX car(s). Jeff bought the "Preimum", mine is the "Vortex" (Cool ground effects diffuser!).

My shipping was $70. from imodel, I think Jeff got theirs from the border.



http://www.the-border.com/DXF-PREMIU...acing-.21.html

http://imodel.fr/377-dxf
......$624.00 for a pan car??...You could easily buy one of Crings Edams and some G10 /Aluminum and come out way under 624.00...or just buy a damn mill and produce one totally from scratch
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:01 PM   #2771
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......$624.00 for a pan car??...You could easily buy one of Crings Edams and some G10 /Aluminum and come out way under 624.00...or just buy a damn mill and produce one totally from scratch
As we speak, David is looking into what it'd take to do some plastic injection molding, he's already located a source of heavy duty plastic/nylon from DuPont. I'm not real keen on that idea....I can convert Edams into pan cars more cheaply (or relatively so) than it'd be to buy the machinery necessary to fabricate top quality from scratch. I'm not ruling it out, however...it's a case of I'll either make very little money or lose money, but I'd prefer to minimize the loss if I can since I'm already making nothing off Edam and don't expect to for some time. We're at a point where we have to move cautiously, lest pan not take off...and even if it did, it'll be a niche market alongside 4wd, 1/10th scale, etc, but we CAN produce a car, provide support for it, and it be competitive, so I'm content on the money issue, and more than content if it all ends in providing people with affordable toys. The Edam style build should work since it'll basically be similar to what else is out there. The two major differences being that my front end will take a punch without breaking, and that I already have a rather large supply of Edam parts and can get more without difficulty.
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:02 PM   #2772
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The DFX on the Border site has really gone up in the last two months. Not sure what has happened. Exchange rate?? Who knows. I did not pay 624 plus shipping for ours.

Jeff
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Old 05-21-2013, 04:05 PM   #2773
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The DFX on the Border site has really gone up in the last two months. Not sure what has happened. Exchange rate?? Who knows. I did not pay 624 plus shipping for ours.

Jeff
Do they have a distributor here in the States? Maybe they'd be interested in having one (not trying to volunteer you or anything, lol.) I'd look into it myself but I'm committed to one company already. If someone wanted to be a distributor...maybe the company would do like Edam and sell more cheaply than to the public, and such a person could pass on the savings to the guys running them.....
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Old 05-21-2013, 06:06 PM   #2774
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......$624.00 for a pan car??...You could easily buy one of Crings Edams and some G10 /Aluminum and come out way under 624.00...or just buy a damn mill and produce one totally from scratch
Matt,
Do you listen to Country Music? I doubt it!! So Listen to "A Little Less Talk" (and a lot more action) :

"KIA"? How about "KIBC" Killing Industry By Cloning" Like EDAM does....
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:08 PM   #2775
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Matt,
Do you listen to Country Music? I doubt it!! So Listen to "A Little Less Talk" (and a lot more action) :

"KIA"? How about "KIBC" Killing Industry By Cloning" Like EDAM does....
I have an old Serpent Excel (got it in a trade after I got back into racing). When I hold it next to my new Edam Razor2, I notice they are basically the same car. Same with Mugen. Same with all of them (except maybe Capricorn.) So I'm wondering when the original design came out, who made it, and who has copied it since. If they are all basically the same car and also about the same price (odd coincidence, that) then who exactly do we intend to blame for "cloning"? (Note: Edam is roughly half the price of the others. Not 10 percent less, or 20....half.)

What I do know is I'm spending less than half to buy the same car. I'm not sure, but I think I read somewhere that the Excel came out circa 1999, fourteen years ago. If that number is right, then there sure has been a bunch of "cloning" going on, and most of it long before Edam hit the market. I can't find it within me to blame a company for cloning, given the large amount of cloning that has gone on, and given the fact that one company out of all of them isn't trying to charge the same nosebleed price for the same basic car. In fact, I sort of appreciate it. Part of the reason I'm trying to get Edam to build a pan car is because I believe they'll do it more cheaply than the others...which in turn makes it possible for more people to do it. I've made not one single dime off selling Edam products..in fact, I've lost money on it and will probably continue to do so because I care more about helping other people have fun than line my own pockets. If I'm doing it with a "cloned" version, so be it. I fully understand that I'll irk a few people along the way because I'm vastly undercutting someones overseas profit margin, and I'm ok with that too. I think I may get your general point, Ned...certainly, countries in Asia (especially China) have made billions off proprietary theft and continue to do so. But in this case, EVERYONE has been doing it for years, and there isn't one American company producing cars anyway....if there were, I'd be supporting them instead, I do believe in "buy American." But when my choices are limited to imports, then my wallet is my guide and I'm entitled to get the best bang for the buck I can.

By the by, I've read somewhere that Serpent is moving its operation to somewhere in Asia. Hm.
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