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Old 11-23-2009, 12:18 AM   #256
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When was the 2WD Classique class born in Europe? Or did the 2WD class never die out after the 4WDs came in the '80s
Hi,

In fact 2WD classic never die out, specially in France, but it should have at the end of the 90's ! Fortunaly, when the 'big' brands such as PB, Serpent, Associated...stopped to manufacture this kind of models, 2 small manufacturers called Monaco Model and BRX continued the class and few guys, such as me, fight to pursue in the frenchchampionship in order to have enough people to practise. We were convinced that this class should have a future for rookie drivers and also for people who wanted to practise in an economical matter and that was the case.
Also, one thing important you must know is that this class is so simple that anyone is able to build its own model. That's also the idea we try to maintain in the rules you read in this post, even if it's possible to use parts from known manufacturers.
For about 4/5 years now, some people developped their own model then produced it as a small manufacturer. DXF is one example. And we can see 'big' brands that are now again interested to manufacture 2WD classic (SG Mantua, Serpent).
For Europe, Italy and France have a constant grow up of drivers in this class and it's only the beginning...of this old class

webclassic
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Old 11-23-2009, 12:23 AM   #257
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..the best part about vintage cars???.........i can't buy parts....i have to make them........
Really nice job and completely in the spirit of this class.
Pleasure for r/c models is also to manufacture by ourselves.
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:58 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by webclassic View Post
Hi,

In fact 2WD classic never die out, specially in France, but it should have at the end of the 90's ! Fortunaly, when the 'big' brands such as PB, Serpent, Associated...stopped to manufacture this kind of models, 2 small manufacturers called Monaco Model and BRX continued the class and few guys, such as me, fight to pursue in the frenchchampionship in order to have enough people to practise. We were convinced that this class should have a future for rookie drivers and also for people who wanted to practise in an economical matter and that was the case.
Also, one thing important you must know is that this class is so simple that anyone is able to build its own model. That's also the idea we try to maintain in the rules you read in this post, even if it's possible to use parts from known manufacturers.
For about 4/5 years now, some people developped their own model then produced it as a small manufacturer. DXF is one example. And we can see 'big' brands that are now again interested to manufacture 2WD classic (SG Mantua, Serpent).
For Europe, Italy and France have a constant grow up of drivers in this class and it's only the beginning...of this old class

webclassic
2WD non-suspension cars were run here in the Texas southwest Series until about 1993 when the 235 mm 2WD cars took over. We ran 2WD 1/8 suspension cars until about 2002 when the present 200 mm sedan class replaced the 1/8 2WD class.

I really appreciate the French drivers for jumping in here on our forum.
Didier, Pierre, and DXF (I did not get your name), You are very welcome here.
I have met Didier through our email when I was buying the DXF Vortex car last month. Didier was a really good person to deal with. He did exactly what
he said would do and more.

I do have a question for the French racers: I am building the DXF car and a Motonica P8C, Both cars come with Gear type Diffs. When I last ran 2WD cars 15 years ago, Ball type diffs were prefered over Gear type diffs because of the ajustable tighness feature of the Ball diff. Back then when I tried a Gear diff, the car in a tight corner would lift the inside wheel off the track surface and all forward drive was lost momentarily. How do you set up the gear diff to fix this problem?

Dale Jones
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:10 AM   #259
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2WD non-suspension cars were run here in the Texas southwest Series until about 1993 when the 235 mm 2WD cars took over. We ran 2WD 1/8 suspension cars until about 2002 when the present 200 mm sedan class replaced the 1/8 2WD class.

I really appreciate the French drivers for jumping in here on our forum.
Didier, Pierre, and DXF (I did not get your name), You are very welcome here.
I have met Didier through our email when I was buying the DXF Vortex car last month. Didier was a really good person to deal with. He did exactly what
he said would do and more.
Hi dale,

I appreciate your welcome message to us. It was quitly the same for us here about the history you related.
Sorry if I don't answer your technical question now, because I'm still working now (3:00 PM here...) but I will take time this evening to try to explain as clear as possible the options taken by manufacturers about diff.

Have a pleasant day.

Webclassic
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Old 11-23-2009, 09:40 AM   #260
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If they are sealed like offroad gear diffs then you can fill them with different weights of silicone grease to adjust the diff action. Just like TC's too for that matter.
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:12 AM   #261
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If they are sealed like offroad gear diffs then you can fill them with different weights of silicone grease to adjust the diff action. Just like TC's too for that matter.
Yeah, But what weight silicone oil to use? The Motonica P8C instructions say
to use 5000 wt. oil. I used 20,000 wt oil and the diff still is pretty loose. I'm thinking 50,000 wt. or even 100,000 wt. oil on a prepped track that has good traction.

Dale
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:52 AM   #262
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Hello from France,

we usually don't run silicone oil in the gear diferential.
Most of time, it's some Molykote grease or, molybdenum grease.

WebClassic and DXF crew will answer you later with the good set up!!

The "Classic" series is re-growing because of the cost over a season, and because drivers fed-up with complex setting of supsnesions cars!!!

Au revoir

PS for French guys: au plaisir de vous accueillir Toulouse en mars 2010!!!
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Old 11-23-2009, 01:02 PM   #263
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Dale,
When will you be ready to run one of the cars? Saturday or Sunday after Thanksgiving? Maybe Santa will bring me one.

Coop

Sorry about the last race. I was really truing to stay our of your way!
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Old 11-23-2009, 01:40 PM   #264
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Dale,
When will you be ready to run one of the cars? Saturday or Sunday after Thanksgiving? Maybe Santa will bring me one.

Coop

Sorry about the last race. I was really truing to stay our of your way!
No problem Coop!

I hope to have one of them done (maybe the Motonica) by then, If thanksgiving family stuff does not get in the way.

Dale
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Old 11-23-2009, 04:43 PM   #265
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DJ where did you get your avatar, is that from Historicrc.com?
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Old 11-23-2009, 05:30 PM   #266
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DJ where did you get your avatar, is that from Historicrc.com?
Guilty! I could'nt resist!!

Dale
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:40 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by djmachinist View Post
I do have a question for the French racers: I am building the DXF car and a Motonica P8C, Both cars come with Gear type Diffs. When I last ran 2WD cars 15 years ago, Ball type diffs were prefered over Gear type diffs because of the ajustable tighness feature of the Ball diff. Back then when I tried a Gear diff, the car in a tight corner would lift the inside wheel off the track surface and all forward drive was lost momentarily. How do you set up the gear diff to fix this problem?
Dale Jones
In fact ball diff is a good solution for 2WD cars, but without suspensions the chassis is so rigid that it's very difficult to have a constant set up. For 5 minutes for example, the diff will be constant but for a 30 minutes use, in general we observe a degradation of slip on because of vibration and unscrew of the diff even if it has been set very hard at the beginning. So that, gear diff have been adopted. With gear diff, depending on the track you will drive, it's better and more constant. In general you have to consider to let your diff enough free and use a soft grease (but not silicon grease that is sticking) and to prevent too much forward drive lost, you play with the tyres shore to reduce this effect (between 37 and more shore for rear tyres & 48 and more shore for front tyres). But it's also a question of how you drive. But don't forget also that during the run grease will heat up and gear diff will be more free. Outside temperature will also play, I mean if you leave in a place where you have regurlarly around 80F, your option should be to adapt a harder grease.
That's also the pleasure of these cars to find the good set-up, and believe me, when you have it, it's a real pleasure to drive.

As an information, we have had a race this year in France named the 24h of Chateauroux and it was better to have a gear diff of course...

Here are few links to watch videos about this event :
youtube.com/watch?v=wqvEUqHzJVs
youtube.com/watch?v=_SBgoQgGWjg
youtube.com/watch?v=6j_eHngMw0M
youtube.com/watch?v=4fLcLxs6c64
youtube.com/watch?v=EkXQh9J7LDg
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:59 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djmachinist View Post
Yeah, But what weight silicone oil to use? The Motonica P8C instructions say
to use 5000 wt. oil. I used 20,000 wt oil and the diff still is pretty loose. I'm thinking 50,000 wt. or even 100,000 wt. oil on a prepped track that has good traction.

Dale
........what about bearing grease??... http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/gpor1.aspx definately thicker than any available silicone (cheap also).........would most likely reduce your one wheely peely.....
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:03 PM   #269
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Really nice job and completely in the spirit of this class.
Pleasure for r/c models is also to manufacture by ourselves.
..thanks.......starting to think i get more enjoyment out of wrenching on these old heaps than i do running the new ones........
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:44 PM   #270
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Seems like a Torsen diff, that all the off road guys seem to dislike, might be the hot ticket for this. The last time I drove 2WD, Torsens were pretty much unheard of for RC applications.
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