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Old 04-28-2013, 03:00 PM   #2611
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Joe here is my take. I have been working on this design for a couple of years and keep getting stuck in the same places. I'll try to get you some parts and drawings if you are interested. Some compromises will need to be made to be able to pull this together but I am willing to help. I have some ideas and possible connections to get a kit like this built but it will take some doing!!


Modern wheels are no problem, Even I've made the adapters! (For the front and rear.) The issue is the Bal Diff axle and gears. (if you can eliminate the diff, you only need to find gears. (CNC lathe would be best way to make axle parts.)

Brake Parts are also not an issue. I've made them with a hole saw out of G-10 in 1/8th and 1/16th inch thick. Shoes are steel, SS or hardend is best with two holes. Even had two disks and three shoes!

Front end is where I deviate from Associated. Nothing against their front end but Phil's favorite Delta is much simpler to make. It's a 1/2" aluminum bar with king pins sticking up at each end and two holes to hold it down. It can be drilled or milled for lightness or looks. Caster can be milled into the mounting or angled shims can be used. Camber is a little trickey, you can drill the KP holes at the angle you want, bend them, or make a more complicated front end... I have a really simple steering block design, two piece like Associated but with trailing caster and a metric axle so you can just put bearings in the modern wheels and bolt them on. Much lighter than Associated too.

Clutch and gears are the biggest issues, to me, along with the diff. Using and off-road clutch would be fine but you need at least a 12 tooth or smaller imo. Remember without the belt reduction the spur has to be bigger to get a decent ratio, around 5:1 is the best I can figure out how to get.
I have some 12t bells but they don't seen to be very common. You can make bells with pinion stock and machine the gear to mate with the bell, it probably should be steel and hardened.
There is still the problem of the spur. I have not been able to find any industrial gears in the range needed...
once again matt makes a good find SERVO CITY has nice gears but if you use there chart my spur does not fit, I have 61 tooth 2.620 OD are we not 32 pitch? also found a place called rapid gears if some one can send a sample we may be in luck
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:36 PM   #2612
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once again matt makes a good find SERVO CITY has nice gears but if you use there chart my spur does not fit, I have 61 tooth 2.620 OD are we not 32 pitch? also found a place called rapid gears if some one can send a sample we may be in luck
I'll check out the Servocity and rapid gears.

32 pitch is what was used in early 1/12 (Jerobee and all) and some nitro 1/10 stuff, RC 10GT etc.

If you multiply the number of teeth by the pitch you get the pitch diameter (about half way between the OD and root of the teeth. So 2.620 OD minus
.100" (about the difference in dia between OD and PD as measured on an Associated gear) is 2.520 x 32 would be about 80 teeth. 2.520 x 24 would be around 60 teeth, much closer
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:50 PM   #2613
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once again matt makes a good find SERVO CITY has nice gears but if you use there chart my spur does not fit, I have 61 tooth 2.620 OD are we not 32 pitch? also found a place called rapid gears if some one can send a sample we may be in luck
I looked at ServoCity and Rapid Gears. ServoCity's gears appear to be Kimbro or Kimbro clones, at higher prices! I may try using 32pitch gears as I mentioned in an earlier post, not sure of the strength but it solves the small tire/big gear problem, and a few others!

Rapid gear looks to me like a BIG outfit making BIG stuff. I bet there are similar places that could help tho. Moody used to make lots of special gears for his stuff including worm gear sets!! Sure miss that man!!!
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:49 PM   #2614
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I looked at ServoCity and Rapid Gears. ServoCity's gears appear to be Kimbro or Kimbro clones, at higher prices! I may try using 32pitch gears as I mentioned in an earlier post, not sure of the strength but it solves the small tire/big gear problem, and a few others!

Rapid gear looks to me like a BIG outfit making BIG stuff. I bet there are similar places that could help tho. Moody used to make lots of special gears for his stuff including worm gear sets!! Sure miss that man!!!
ok lets keep digging have an email in at rapid gear, can't hurt
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:29 PM   #2615
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Good points all. We're really looking at different things tho. I'm trying to work on something cheap and simple, that you don't have to relay on others for part and pieces. The "Modern Pans" you guys are building would be difficult and expensive to duplicate, imo. Where do you get BMT and obsolete Kyosho parts when you need 'em? lol In order to stay simple you have to give up on adjustments and stuff.
Got another idea for the rear....
.........take modern 4wd rear bulkheads..put a ball diff between em......brake setup already there.....my pan not expensive.......don't have much in it....mine could be even cheaper with all aluminum chassis....the direct drive drives me nuts that I cant use all the tires up..thats NOT cheap
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:32 PM   #2616
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I'll check out the Servocity and rapid gears.

32 pitch is what was used in early 1/12 (Jerobee and all) and some nitro 1/10 stuff, RC 10GT etc.

If you multiply the number of teeth by the pitch you get the pitch diameter (about half way between the OD and root of the teeth. So 2.620 OD minus
.100" (about the difference in dia between OD and PD as measured on an Associated gear) is 2.520 x 32 would be about 80 teeth. 2.520 x 24 would be around 60 teeth, much closer
..Ned.i have a WMberg catalog and it has a pitch/OD chart in it for spur gears..Near as my young eyes can tell is the Associated spurs are 24 pitch???..Could that be correct???

here it is...
http://www.wmberg.com/catalog/pdf/b00k17-20.pdf
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:53 PM   #2617
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..Ned.i have a WMberg catalog and it has a pitch/OD chart in it for spur gears..Near as my young eyes can tell is the Associated spurs are 24 pitch???..Could that be correct???

here it is...
http://www.wmberg.com/catalog/pdf/b00k17-20.pdf
Yes, When Joe asked if they were 32 I should have just said no!! That's what my math shows.... I believe I mentioned that back a while ago.
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:32 PM   #2618
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.........take modern 4wd rear bulkheads..
Matt, I think you may be on to something here.

Take the whole 4wd rear end, add an off road gear diff (too hard to make a ball diff to fit in there) and make up solid spacers to locate the rear hubs.

You could make a new pan or maybe cut the existing one off and make the front part out of fiberglass.

Put on the non-suspension front end of your choice. Using the existing hubs and piviot balls if you wish.

Know of any decent 4wd's available for trade or real cheap up there? I'd like to try it! Something that you can still get some parts for would be best....

When I come up for the MidWest Series next month, we need to do some bench racin'!
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Old 04-28-2013, 10:37 PM   #2619
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ok lets keep digging have an email in at rapid gear, can't hurt
Try Kimbrough...
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:48 AM   #2620
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Matt, I think you may be on to something here.

Take the whole 4wd rear end, add an off road gear diff (too hard to make a ball diff to fit in there) and make up solid spacers to locate the rear hubs.

You could make a new pan or maybe cut the existing one off and make the front part out of fiberglass.

Put on the non-suspension front end of your choice. Using the existing hubs and piviot balls if you wish.

Know of any decent 4wd's available for trade or real cheap up there? I'd like to try it! Something that you can still get some parts for would be best....

When I come up for the MidWest Series next month, we need to do some bench racin'!
Ned... I have some gear diffs out of a mugen 1/8 buggy... I already
ground the teeth off the gear... Going to take a spare rear pulley
I have left from my serpent 4wd car and see if I can shave the
internal webbing and bolt it to the Mugen case...

Best case scenario is we use modern parts with
little modifications.... Off road gear diff unit should be
able to be mounted between 4wd bulkheads with the
correct bearing.... Just have to space out bulkheads
to make fit
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:28 AM   #2621
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Originally Posted by Taylorm View Post
Ned... I have some gear diffs out of a mugen 1/8 buggy... I already
ground the teeth off the gear... Going to take a spare rear pulley
I have left from my serpent 4wd car and see if I can shave the
internal webbing and bolt it to the Mugen case...

Best case scenario is we use modern parts with
little modifications.... Off road gear diff unit should be
able to be mounted between 4wd bulkheads with the
correct bearing.... Just have to space out bulkheads
to make fit
why not just use a gear diff out of a 1/10 touring car?
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:34 AM   #2622
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Associated used 24 Pitch 20 degree pressure angle (cut enough of the damn things for alternate ratio's for RC500's ) pretty sure Delta was the same. In the early scratchbuild days we got gears from a company called "Stock Gear" ,in fact the early Delta cars cars just used modified stock gears. Pretty sure all the european and asian cars use the metric module gear system.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:44 AM   #2623
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why not just use a gear diff out of a 1/10 touring car?
Probably cause we didn't think of it! Wonder if the smaller size would be strong enough and may make it harder to adapt pulleys and bones....
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:47 AM   #2624
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Associated used 24 Pitch 20 degree pressure angle (cut enough of the damn things for alternate ratio's for RC500's ) pretty sure Delta was the same. In the early scratchbuild days we got gears from a company called "Stock Gear" ,in fact the early Delta cars cars just used modified stock gears. Pretty sure all the european and asian cars use the metric module gear system.
Got many gears from SDP (Stock Drive Products) could that be the same place? They don't seem to have anything useful now and the costs are pretty high as well.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:58 AM   #2625
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Originally Posted by Taylorm View Post
Ned... I have some gear diffs out of a mugen 1/8 buggy... I already
ground the teeth off the gear... Going to take a spare rear pulley
I have left from my serpent 4wd car and see if I can shave the
internal webbing and bolt it to the Mugen case...

Best case scenario is we use modern parts with
little modifications.... Off road gear diff unit should be
able to be mounted between 4wd bulkheads with the
correct bearing.... Just have to space out bulkheads
to make fit
Here's the pics of the losi diff I modded and the pod I made last year. Too much work and no future for the pod but the diff mod is easy and cheap. The gears are plastic and about $5. Most mods of this type will need custom dog bones unfortunately.

European 2wd 1/8th pan car on-road Classic class-ld1.jpg

European 2wd 1/8th pan car on-road Classic class-ld2.jpg

European 2wd 1/8th pan car on-road Classic class-rp1.jpg
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