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Old 09-15-2012, 04:03 PM   #1981
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Which came first: the dimise of on-road or the lazy, "I need instant gratiifcation" racer? What you mention has some merit but there will never be RTR on-road gas cars to rival those available for off road and bashing.

As far as lack of tracks, you are dating youself!! lol Every parking lot used to be a potential track. We all became spoiled with permanent tracks and won't even consider a little work to race.. (This is a comment on the state of RC racing and the world in general IMHO!) Ever hear of "Race, Marshall, SCORE"? I doubt it!!

You recognize the cost and complexity issue, but back in the day, you had to build all cars, paint all the bodies, etc., AND set-up the track to race. There's a coountry song "Beer is good, people are crazy" Should be "LAZY" lol
Bottom line is what you mention about "Instant Gratification". Very few are
willing to put in the effort to race on-road, period, fewer all the time!

(Possibly) Interesting old guy recollection: When I first heard the term "Instant Gratification" is was from a fellow One-Eight Racers Club member, John Temme. The club had stopped giving out awards at the race track, the logic being most of us had plenty and didn't want more. We changed to a system of awarding all the awards at the end of season Banquet (Ask Lon Sr. what a Club Awards Banquet was all about.) John thought we were not giving any "Instant Gratificaton" to the newer guys and even small trophies, awarded at the track, might help attract and keep more races.

Next there will be guys showing up just to race some one elses car!!
Tom is trying to talk me into buying a bunch of lumber and stuff and either setting up a permanent track down here or at least coming up with a portable setup. If I were more physically active, I'd do it. We're going to talk to some of the hobby shops and clubs down here doing offroad and 1/10 electric onroad this winter, if we get enough people to commit, we may do it. Heaven knows we have enough empty parking lots around here with the economy the way it is...finding a spot is not the problem, finding the people may be, but we'll see.
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Old 09-15-2012, 04:09 PM   #1982
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Default Ah...oval

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Before gas racing died in ATL they called 4wd the "Whine and Cheese" Class!! I had heard that before of course, but these guys were 1/8 Gas OVAL Racers!!

None of this stuff is "Cheap"! Cost keeps some away. Insane speed prevents many from having any fun! Until the "Burling Pan Car Resurgence" (Currently in it's second year, and only found in Toledo, Ohio) there was nothing but
"F1"!

Not much real hope for the future... IMHO...
I know Matt is going to have a go at building his own pan, and we're going to build ours, using a lot of the same parts and ideas. I figure it's the absolute cheapest way to put a car together, and no reason why it can't perform and be fun as well. I do like transponders, I remember what a pain manual scoring was so if we ever did a track down here, I'd have to get one of those systems. But I used to love the oval races, really fast laps!
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Old 09-15-2012, 04:14 PM   #1983
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Default Cynical? No way!

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Now keep in mind that I am preaching to the choir, but you mention that back in the day, you had to build all kits. I miss having to build every car that I want to race. In my Aircraft days, I used to love ordering up a set of plans from RCM, hand picking the woods for construction, modifying the airframe where I felt I could lighten or strengthen it up. I used Kraft radios until they were no longer considered serviceable.

I was a hobbyist. A tinkerer. Astro Flight and Enya were on my speed dial.

I believe without being cynical that there are few hobbyists left in our hobby. There are certainly a whole bunch enthusiasts, but rollers, ARFs, RTRs have taken the hobby out of the hobby. I know a large group of off roaders that don't have a clue of how to solder a new motor or battery terminal together. Simple tasks like replacing arms or C hubs are frustrating. Lord help them if they need to swap out a servo.

It's not a hobby to most anymore. It's a pass time. Instant gratification.

I've seen manual scoring done. Couple of weeks later I learned what a transponder was. In the RC Car world, I'm a youngster...
Unfortunately (for me) your explaination is the very best I've seen...too few hobbyists is the root problem. We dance all around what the RC thing is all the time. Is it a hobby? Is it a sport? Are we modellers? Are we racers? A pass time, not a passion, instant gratification, not building for future generations. That probably explains alot of the issues I have with how things are being run today. It doesn't make me feel any better, but it does help me see some things!
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Old 09-15-2012, 04:21 PM   #1984
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Default 4wd Limited Class?

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at my local shop a tamiya mini is just shy of 300$. guys then put 200$ worth of blue aluminum parts on it. i know it's not a glamourous name but you can get one of the cars phil has for that much. before you start our dollar is now higher. a friend of mine suggested a sportsman type class with some sort of motor limits. i want too run my 4wd but dread buying a high end motor for club racing. maybe this will appeall too folks wanting the techy stuff
I understand that a limited 4wd class was tried a few years ago. What happened to that attempt? Probably were not fast enough... lol
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Old 09-15-2012, 05:09 PM   #1985
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Default Testing 1 2 3!

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I understand that a limited 4wd class was tried a few years ago. What happened to that attempt? Probably were not fast enough... lol
Several years ago there was a movement to run a 3-port motor in a 4wd car. All the reasons were right but the motor was wrong. The NR motors were to weak, mine didn't make it threw it's second tank while breaking in.( I'm thinking the 3-port we've been running in the pans could have filled the bill.) The idea died a swift death at that time. Still a good idea in my mind.
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Old 09-15-2012, 07:19 PM   #1986
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at my local shop a tamiya mini is just shy of 300$. guys then put 200$ worth of blue aluminum parts on it. i know it's not a glamourous name but you can get one of the cars phil has for that much. before you start our dollar is now higher. a friend of mine suggested a sportsman type class with some sort of motor limits. i want too run my 4wd but dread buying a high end motor for club racing. maybe this will appeall too folks wanting the techy stuff
The club should lump open and masters (run same speed) together to make room for a slower 3-port 4wd car or limit 3-port to 1 speed and mix in with pans. Let the 1/10th go. Stir and stir some more!
Ned, you need to move back home!
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Old 09-15-2012, 07:38 PM   #1987
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Unfortunately (for me) your explaination is the very best I've seen...too few hobbyists is the root problem. We dance all around what the RC thing is all the time. Is it a hobby? Is it a sport? Are we modellers? Are we racers? A pass time, not a passion, instant gratification, not building for future generations. That probably explains alot of the issues I have with how things are being run today. It doesn't make me feel any better, but it does help me see some things!
It's not a sport..I figure a sport involves a ball and while I'd be happy to strap one to the top of my car, I suspect it wouldn't help the aerodynamics all that much...and passing would be a real pain.

I don't consider it racing since there aren't any humans in the cars...and there isn't anyone vertically challenged enough to fit anyway.

We definitely aren't modellers, at least most of us, since we're putting together kits made by someone else, and very few of us actually fabricate any of the pieces. I'm working on that issue tho, and Tom already crossed that horizon with pieces he made for his stuff.

That leaves hobbyists. Nothing wrong with that, but it does take a little of the fun away. Then again, this stuff hit the tech wave and made it to where most people don't have the ability to make their own stuff, we lost the KISS principle awhile back. From the attendance of the GLC, I gather a lot of people are quite happy with that and it works for those who either don't want to spend the time or don't have the knowledge to do their own thing. I've run plenty of that and currently do so, tho I made parts for the Super J way back, and still do.

I think pan is good because we can get the people who just want to run, but we can also get the people who want to fabricate their own stuff. Being able to make your own tweaks gives the hobby another aspect. I can appreciate the modellers with trains (tho I'd rather die than do it myself) and their attention to detail in what they build.

Any way you slice it, it's still 2012 and we have the hobby as it exists. And we have options, to RTR it, to buiding kits (remember, shameless plug, I sell 4wd kits at cost,) or to build our own. We do need RTR's and kits to get new people involved, and I still think we should have a class of "run what you brung," if nothing else, it's more club dues and membership for ROAR. Turning away people because they don't have exactly what we have is shortsighted..they don't have to run in the same heat as we do, but there's enough track time for all, and it's not to say a newbie wouldn't then move up to something else in order to run with everyone else.

Matt is building his thing, and we're working on ours, and there is always Motonica. I plan to have something for handout next year, something to give to those who show up and want to know a little more about what we do...what's availible, some cost breakdown, etc. Give 'em options. I'll also see about doing what I said I would and didn't get to yet, putting a car together for anyone to drive that shows up, just to see if they get the "bug." I don't think we have much in the way of outreach and affordability. I've worked on the affordability aspect but there's only so much I can do from four hours away on outreach for Toledo, my only other option is to try to start a track here. But then I run into the same pitfall that many other clubs have, which is time/energy/involvement. Without a bunch of Ted's, races don't happen, and I'm sure Ned can attest to that. I'll see over the winter what I can do around here, but for now, I'm up for helping the Toledo club any way we can, be it donating prizes, money, volunteering to turn marshall, helping set up, and so forth. If anyone has an idea I can help with to grow our hobby, I'm in.
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:12 PM   #1988
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there has been discussion locally here about buggy motors for 1/8 4wd at the club level and i have to agree a spec motor for "sportsman' "club spec" lets look at say aGo Technology GXII-5RHO 5+2 Port .21 Competition Buggy Engine (Turbo Plug) $167. a replace ment rod is $18. a sleeve piston rod assembly is cheaper than just a rod for a pure race modded nova at $68 yes cheap motor fails quick but we all do maintenance put a good set of Bearings in it and have fun just a thought
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:06 PM   #1989
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Default Where are the Racers??

Anybody wanna see how much 1/8th scale Gas racing actually is going on? Let's make a map of the cities that have active 1/8th scale racing. (Defined as scheduled races at least once per month during "the season".)

I'd also like to include classes, number of racers per class, etc. Eventually I would like to do the whole US (Canada too?) but I'm really interested in "East of the Mississippi" 'cause I might stumble on somewhere to race!!!

Let's also include the clubs that are not around anymore for a complete picture of our history...

Here's a q & d idea of what I have in mind... Please add comments and info!

European 2wd 1/8th pan car on-road Classic class-clubs.jpg

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Old 09-15-2012, 10:00 PM   #1990
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Several years ago there was a movement to run a 3-port motor in a 4wd car. All the reasons were right but the motor was wrong. The NR motors were to weak, mine didn't make it threw it's second tank while breaking in.( I'm thinking the 3-port we've been running in the pans could have filled the bill.) The idea died a swift death at that time. Still a good idea in my mind.
Lon....was it possible (sic) Novarossi had a bad batch of 3 port motors that the guys tried.?..I myself asked Hammer about the 3 port motors and he also said they died a quick death????...from what i can tell the 3 port and 5 port Novarossis that are currently being run in pan look like they would have enough longevity to last a while in 4WD.............And they can be had for 169.00 according to McNish.......We need a cheaper 4wd class for slow hacks like me.........I cant afford 3 700.00 motors a year...well i could......but the wife would be WTF!!!!...Never understood the whole open/masters separation???......Do guys magically get slow at 45 and now need their own class???.........We need open and (i hate to say it).............a sportsman/spec motor class.........
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:26 PM   #1991
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Lon....was it possible (sic) Novarossi had a bad batch of 3 port motors that the guys tried.?..I myself asked Hammer about the 3 port motors and he also said they died a quick death????...from what i can tell the 3 port and 5 port Novarossis that are currently being run in pan look like they would have enough longevity to last a while in 4WD.............And they can be had for 169.00 according to McNish.......We need a cheaper 4wd class for slow hacks like me.........I cant afford 3 700.00 motors a year...well i could......but the wife would be WTF!!!!...Never understood the whole open/masters separation???......Do guys magically get slow at 45 and now need their own class???.........We need open and (i hate to say it).............a sportsman/spec motor class.........
LOL! You of ALL people! MR. RC 300. You bait me into this pan thing. Then you give up even trying. THEN you tell Phil you are going to scratch build a pan car (I never did believe that one! lol) NOW you want a spec class in 4wd! AFTER I got rid of a great, brand new X-RAY and two perfectly good Kyosho's!!!!!!

Thanks, Buddy!

Last edited by aarcobra; 09-15-2012 at 10:37 PM. Reason: add tears...
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:21 PM   #1992
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Hey! I like the idea of scratch built!
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Old 09-16-2012, 01:14 AM   #1993
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Hey! I like the idea of scratch built!
I like the IDEA too! I'm building a few myself, even have a lead on a machine shop that could make most of the parts. There are issues with some of the parts and I'm betting no one (except the Chinese) can make anything cheap enough to attract many racers.

Wishing y'all a lot of luck, It would be really cool...
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Old 09-16-2012, 01:54 PM   #1994
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I like the IDEA too! I'm building a few myself, even have a lead on a machine shop that could make most of the parts. There are issues with some of the parts and I'm betting no one (except the Chinese) can make anything cheap enough to attract many racers.

Wishing y'all a lot of luck, It would be really cool...
That's part of the reason we're going with off the shelf for so much of it. I know it'd be a pain for most to make some stuff, lack of machining and such, so the critical items will be either really simple to make or we can make them for others, while the rest of it can be bought by anyone online for as cheap as possible. I figure if it's durable enough, one won't need many parts, and if the parts one does need are cheap enough, it won't matter. Being able to run 4wd cast offs will help too. The only part I can't do much about is the cost of engines and such, but this way, hopefully, it'll keep the price down enough to where we aren't chasing anyone out because they can't keep up financially.
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Old 09-16-2012, 08:04 PM   #1995
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Red face CONGRATULATION!

Today my grandson, Noah Bellville, just plain beat me but only after he out qualified me first. It was a very fun race in which I passed him a half dozen time, he won't let go, passing me back or waiting for me to mess up. Talk about pressure!
GREAT JOB NOAH!!
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