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Old 09-14-2012, 09:06 PM   #1966
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Default Passing time

So at what point does it become the slower racers job to make the faster racer look good? What other sports expect you to roll over and play dead if you're losing? You can be down 100 to 0 yet the crowd expects you to step up to the plate and swing away in baseball. Rocky was down for the count, but didn't give up and we loved it!
By the way Ned, I try not to stir the pot but it doesn't always work, SORRY!
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:29 PM   #1967
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Default I THINK THAT

You're so very right on this one. Not sure about what USVTA is all about. However, when it takes such a long time to try to explain to someone how there is only a second between two cars that are 1/2 lap apart, something is wrong!
Our hobby some where down the road just quite trying to sell it's self to the public, big mistake. There must have been a reason for this system coming to be, but it beats me!



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Originally Posted by aarcobra View Post
If RC car racers were really interested in "RACING" they would do away with the dumb "Qualifing" races and race heads up in the heats and mains, ie. USVTA. Some guys are so intent on qualifing that they forget about reason to have cars-to RACE 'EM! The qualifing system used separates the cars so they have less chance to actually run side by side.
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:05 AM   #1968
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Default Marker???

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boy i really do miss my old marker pan

i think it is about the only car i don't have
I have one! What will you gimme for it? ;-)
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:22 AM   #1969
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Or, what happens more often than not, you race side by side and ruin two runs...
By "runs" I suppose you mean "qualifiers"? Which in classes with less than 10 to 15 entries mean nothing as all can race in one main anyway. Go to one or four lap qualifing, one car at a time if you want to qualify by "speed" alone.
Problem is there is very little thought on how things look to the public and I think that is at least partly responsible for the lack of new racers...
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:33 AM   #1970
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Default USVTA

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Originally Posted by Das 1/8th Mopar View Post
You're so very right on this one. Not sure about what USVTA is all about. However, when it takes such a long time to try to explain to someone how there is only a second between two cars that are 1/2 lap apart, something is wrong!
Our hobby some where down the road just quite trying to sell it's self to the public, big mistake. There must have been a reason for this system coming to be, but it beats me!
USVTA is a 1/10 scale touring car series/class which has been around for a few years basically trying to offer lower cost, spec racing, for those who for whatever reason want to do something different that all out open class racing. (Sound familiar?) Google it and there is plenty of info...

What I was refering to was the USVTA rule ALL races, heats and mains, are head's up, all cars starting at the same time.
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:39 AM   #1971
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Default Get real!!

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Originally Posted by Das 1/8th Mopar View Post
So at what point does it become the slower racers job to make the faster racer look good? What other sports expect you to roll over and play dead if you're losing? You can be down 100 to 0 yet the crowd expects you to step up to the plate and swing away in baseball. Rocky was down for the count, but didn't give up and we loved it!
By the way Ned, I try not to stir the pot but it doesn't always work, SORRY!
Nobody said to "roll over and play dead"! Just "know when to hold 'em...know when to run"
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:55 AM   #1972
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Yes, you are correct.

Here's my take, after coming over from off road. With all of the instant gratification that off road RTRs give (and they do give a whole lot of it), it's a no brainer for the majority of new racers to spend a few hundred dollars for ANY of the good buggies or Short course trucks that flood the market (thank you Traxxas). 9 out of 10 of these are electric and 6 out of 9 of those use brushless motors and have speed controls that are smart enough to shut off before the LiPo batteries puff and ignite into a beautiful blue/green blaze. Before the switch, I had been running 8th scale electric buggy. On one battery, well before it hit cut off, I could get 11-13 minutes of good run time. I can remember when I had to gear my first buggy to make 4 minutes.

Back on topic. First reason I think people don't come in droves to race on road: Fewer tracks. I live in Ann Arbor. There are no on road tracks in the Metro Detroit area. No parking lots, no indoor carpet tracks. If I want to race on road, In have to go to Toledo (closest).

Second reason: Cost and complexity. Pan cars are the exception, but setup is the most important aspect of racing on road. If it isn't right, it stinks. 600+ dollar Sedans and 4wd 1/8ths? 400+ dollar engines? 30 dollar clutch shoes? 25+ dollar sets of tires that you'll mostly burn up when you true them to whatever size you feel is the best for you. It isn't cheap and involves significant investment of time and money.

Third reason: Zero instant gratification factor. You can't pull a competitive on road car out of a box and win a race. Period.

Until this happens, we'll always be viewed as a bit elitist and a bit unreachable. JMHO...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aarcobra View Post
By "runs" I suppose you mean "qualifiers"? Which in classes with less than 10 to 15 entries mean nothing as all can race in one main anyway. Go to one or four lap qualifing, one car at a time if you want to qualify by "speed" alone.
Problem is there is very little thought on how things look to the public and I think that is at least partly responsible for the lack of new racers...
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:02 AM   #1973
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Default Well damn

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Originally Posted by Farmer_John View Post
Yes, you are correct.

Here's my take, after coming over from off road. With all of the instant gratification that off road RTRs give (and they do give a whole lot of it), it's a no brainer for the majority of new racers to spend a few hundred dollars for ANY of the good buggies or Short course trucks that flood the market (thank you Traxxas). 9 out of 10 of these are electric and 6 out of 9 of those use brushless motors and have speed controls that are smart enough to shut off before the LiPo batteries puff and ignite into a beautiful blue/green blaze. Before the switch, I had been running 8th scale electric buggy. On one battery, well before it hit cut off, I could get 11-13 minutes of good run time. I can remember when I had to gear my first buggy to make 4 minutes.

Back on topic. First reason I think people don't come in droves to race on road: Fewer tracks. I live in Ann Arbor. There are no on road tracks in the Metro Detroit area. No parking lots, no indoor carpet tracks. If I want to race on road, In have to go to Toledo (closest).

Second reason: Cost and complexity. Pan cars are the exception, but setup is the most important aspect of racing on road. If it isn't right, it stinks. 600+ dollar Sedans and 4wd 1/8ths? 400+ dollar engines? 30 dollar clutch shoes? 25+ dollar sets of tires that you'll mostly burn up when you true them to whatever size you feel is the best for you. It isn't cheap and involves significant investment of time and money.

Third reason: Zero instant gratification factor. You can't pull a competitive on road car out of a box and win a race. Period.

Until this happens, we'll always be viewed as a bit elitist and a bit unreachable. JMHO...
When you're right, you're right. All but cost tho, I think I have that issue beat, but all the rest of it you've hit the nail on the head.
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Old 09-15-2012, 09:38 AM   #1974
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Default Chicken or Egg?

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Originally Posted by Farmer_John View Post
Yes, you are correct.

Here's my take, after coming over from off road. With all of the instant gratification that off road RTRs give (and they do give a whole lot of it), it's a no brainer for the majority of new racers to spend a few hundred dollars for ANY of the good buggies or Short course trucks that flood the market (thank you Traxxas). 9 out of 10 of these are electric and 6 out of 9 of those use brushless motors and have speed controls that are smart enough to shut off before the LiPo batteries puff and ignite into a beautiful blue/green blaze. Before the switch, I had been running 8th scale electric buggy. On one battery, well before it hit cut off, I could get 11-13 minutes of good run time. I can remember when I had to gear my first buggy to make 4 minutes.

Back on topic. First reason I think people don't come in droves to race on road: Fewer tracks. I live in Ann Arbor. There are no on road tracks in the Metro Detroit area. No parking lots, no indoor carpet tracks. If I want to race on road, In have to go to Toledo (closest).

Second reason: Cost and complexity. Pan cars are the exception, but setup is the most important aspect of racing on road. If it isn't right, it stinks. 600+ dollar Sedans and 4wd 1/8ths? 400+ dollar engines? 30 dollar clutch shoes? 25+ dollar sets of tires that you'll mostly burn up when you true them to whatever size you feel is the best for you. It isn't cheap and involves significant investment of time and money.

Third reason: Zero instant gratification factor. You can't pull a competitive on road car out of a box and win a race. Period.

Until this happens, we'll always be viewed as a bit elitist and a bit unreachable. JMHO...
Which came first: the dimise of on-road or the lazy, "I need instant gratiifcation" racer? What you mention has some merit but there will never be RTR on-road gas cars to rival those available for off road and bashing.

As far as lack of tracks, you are dating youself!! lol Every parking lot used to be a potential track. We all became spoiled with permanent tracks and won't even consider a little work to race.. (This is a comment on the state of RC racing and the world in general IMHO!) Ever hear of "Race, Marshall, SCORE"? I doubt it!!

You recognize the cost and complexity issue, but back in the day, you had to build all cars, paint all the bodies, etc., AND set-up the track to race. There's a coountry song "Beer is good, people are crazy" Should be "LAZY" lol
Bottom line is what you mention about "Instant Gratification". Very few are
willing to put in the effort to race on-road, period, fewer all the time!

(Possibly) Interesting old guy recollection: When I first heard the term "Instant Gratification" is was from a fellow One-Eight Racers Club member, John Temme. The club had stopped giving out awards at the race track, the logic being most of us had plenty and didn't want more. We changed to a system of awarding all the awards at the end of season Banquet (Ask Lon Sr. what a Club Awards Banquet was all about.) John thought we were not giving any "Instant Gratificaton" to the newer guys and even small trophies, awarded at the track, might help attract and keep more races.

Next there will be guys showing up just to race some one elses car!!

Last edited by aarcobra; 09-15-2012 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:06 AM   #1975
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Default $$

1/8th on road 4wd is the F1 of RC, they're crazy fast and they rip their way through the turns, they eat up fuel and tires, and they're calling your name. So if you want to play 1/8th scale 4wd, you're stepping into the big boys battle ground. Make no mistake, it's not cheap, so if cost is a factor, beware.
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:12 AM   #1976
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Default Lets EAT

I once stopped in this little restaurant to get something to eat, little did I know this place had the answer to one of the worlds' oldest questions. They had a sandwich called "the Mother and Child". First came the chicken patty, then the egg. Now you know
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Old 09-15-2012, 11:59 AM   #1977
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Now keep in mind that I am preaching to the choir, but you mention that back in the day, you had to build all kits. I miss having to build every car that I want to race. In my Aircraft days, I used to love ordering up a set of plans from RCM, hand picking the woods for construction, modifying the airframe where I felt I could lighten or strengthen it up. I used Kraft radios until they were no longer considered serviceable.

I was a hobbyist. A tinkerer. Astro Flight and Enya were on my speed dial.

I believe without being cynical that there are few hobbyists left in our hobby. There are certainly a whole bunch enthusiasts, but rollers, ARFs, RTRs have taken the hobby out of the hobby. I know a large group of off roaders that don't have a clue of how to solder a new motor or battery terminal together. Simple tasks like replacing arms or C hubs are frustrating. Lord help them if they need to swap out a servo.

It's not a hobby to most anymore. It's a pass time. Instant gratification.

I've seen manual scoring done. Couple of weeks later I learned what a transponder was. In the RC Car world, I'm a youngster...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aarcobra View Post
Which came first: the dimise of on-road or the lazy, "I need instant gratiifcation" racer? What you mention has some merit but there will never be RTR on-road gas cars to rival those available for off road and bashing.

As far as lack of tracks, you are dating youself!! lol Every parking lot used to be a potential track. We all became spoiled with permanent tracks and won't even consider a little work to race.. (This is a comment on the state of RC racing and the world in general IMHO!) Ever hear of "Race, Marshall, SCORE"? I doubt it!!

You recognize the cost and complexity issue, but back in the day, you had to build all cars, paint all the bodies, etc., AND set-up the track to race. There's a coountry song "Beer is good, people are crazy" Should be "LAZY" lol
Bottom line is what you mention about "Instant Gratification". Very few are
willing to put in the effort to race on-road, period, fewer all the time!

(Possibly) Interesting old guy recollection: When I first heard the term "Instant Gratification" is was from a fellow One-Eight Racers Club member, John Temme. The club had stopped giving out awards at the race track, the logic being most of us had plenty and didn't want more. We changed to a system of awarding all the awards at the end of season Banquet (Ask Lon Sr. what a Club Awards Banquet was all about.) John thought we were not giving any "Instant Gratificaton" to the newer guys and even small trophies, awarded at the track, might help attract and keep more races.

Next there will be guys showing up just to race some one elses car!!
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Old 09-15-2012, 03:00 PM   #1978
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Originally Posted by Das 1/8th Mopar View Post
1/8th on road 4wd is the F1 of RC, they're crazy fast and they rip their way through the turns, they eat up fuel and tires, and they're calling your name. So if you want to play 1/8th scale 4wd, you're stepping into the big boys battle ground. Make no mistake, it's not cheap, so if cost is a factor, beware.
at my local shop a tamiya mini is just shy of 300$. guys then put 200$ worth of blue aluminum parts on it. i know it's not a glamourous name but you can get one of the cars phil has for that much. before you start our dollar is now higher. a friend of mine suggested a sportsman type class with some sort of motor limits. i want too run my 4wd but dread buying a high end motor for club racing. maybe this will appeall too folks wanting the techy stuff
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Old 09-15-2012, 03:58 PM   #1979
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Default Whine and Cheese for $$

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Originally Posted by Das 1/8th Mopar View Post
1/8th on road 4wd is the F1 of RC, they're crazy fast and they rip their way through the turns, they eat up fuel and tires, and they're calling your name. So if you want to play 1/8th scale 4wd, you're stepping into the big boys battle ground. Make no mistake, it's not cheap, so if cost is a factor, beware.
Before gas racing died in ATL they called 4wd the "Whine and Cheese" Class!! I had heard that before of course, but these guys were 1/8 Gas OVAL Racers!!

None of this stuff is "Cheap"! Cost keeps some away. Insane speed prevents many from having any fun! Until the "Burling Pan Car Resurgence" (Currently in it's second year, and only found in Toledo, Ohio) there was nothing but
"F1"!

Not much real hope for the future... IMHO...
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Old 09-15-2012, 04:00 PM   #1980
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Default Meh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Das 1/8th Mopar View Post
1/8th on road 4wd is the F1 of RC, they're crazy fast and they rip their way through the turns, they eat up fuel and tires, and they're calling your name. So if you want to play 1/8th scale 4wd, you're stepping into the big boys battle ground. Make no mistake, it's not cheap, so if cost is a factor, beware.
I can do 4wd on a budget, and hope the same for tires if I get my homework done this winter. And if I can do it, anyone else can too.
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