Xceed US, Japanese and Italian Foam
06-30-2009, 07:37 AM
#1
Xceed US, Japanese and Italian Foam
Hello!
Does anyone know what are the differences between these foam types?
(American, Italian, Japanese).
Does anyone know what are the differences between these foam types?
(American, Italian, Japanese).
06-30-2009, 07:53 AM
#2
Tech Adept
Basically they're different brands produced for Xceed, American is Jaco rubber on Xceed wheels, Italian is Ennetti rubber on Xceed wheel and Japanese is supposed to be the same as Kawahara rubber on Xceed wheel.
06-30-2009, 08:16 AM
#3
So the hardnesses and tyre-wears are bassicly simmilar?
06-30-2009, 09:54 AM
#4
All the same rubber, just different wheels.
06-30-2009, 10:46 AM
#5
nah man not true. The CRC website had the best write up on this and basically it goes like this:
there are three types of foam. Japanese, North American, and European.
1) JAPANESE FOAM
-has a higher rubber content, and is generally a softer type of foam. It has more grip as well (generally than US spec foam) it's designed predominantly for medium temperature or cold type conditions, and designed for tourers generally which are lighter and hence don't produce as much heat as the 8th's (see euro spec foam description).
2)US SPEC FOAM
-has less rubber content, generally less grip on ashpalt because of this. It's predominantly designed with less rubber as US racer tend to do indoor racing more often, so the market/design of the foam requires less grip, and the grip is generally produced by the higher heat that this racing creates on carpet
3) EURO FOAM
-a denser (CRC calls it a "wetter" type) foam, with a rubber content between the jap and us foams. it's also a heavier foam, and is predominantly designed for use with 8th scale as this is/was the bigger class in europe.
obviously rim design, and the hardness of the plastic also affects grip levels. Softer rim, generally more grip, but also not as suitable to high grip tracks, and the harder rim is less grip on low grip tracks but more balanced on high grip tracks.
This is what i remember from the CRC website. Obviously with the change in popularity of some classes, some manufacturers may have chaged their foam type used. For example ATS now use Jap style foam. Gandinni used to use the euro style foam on their tourers, not sure what they use now.
Also Jaco may or may not have changed foam types, i haven't seen the new prisms yet.
GQ use a jap style foam but on a hard rim, so the foam feels like it wears and "drives" differently to say the kawaharra foam.
anyone else heard the rumour that Kawaharra is now out of business?
there are three types of foam. Japanese, North American, and European.
1) JAPANESE FOAM
-has a higher rubber content, and is generally a softer type of foam. It has more grip as well (generally than US spec foam) it's designed predominantly for medium temperature or cold type conditions, and designed for tourers generally which are lighter and hence don't produce as much heat as the 8th's (see euro spec foam description).
2)US SPEC FOAM
-has less rubber content, generally less grip on ashpalt because of this. It's predominantly designed with less rubber as US racer tend to do indoor racing more often, so the market/design of the foam requires less grip, and the grip is generally produced by the higher heat that this racing creates on carpet
3) EURO FOAM
-a denser (CRC calls it a "wetter" type) foam, with a rubber content between the jap and us foams. it's also a heavier foam, and is predominantly designed for use with 8th scale as this is/was the bigger class in europe.
obviously rim design, and the hardness of the plastic also affects grip levels. Softer rim, generally more grip, but also not as suitable to high grip tracks, and the harder rim is less grip on low grip tracks but more balanced on high grip tracks.
This is what i remember from the CRC website. Obviously with the change in popularity of some classes, some manufacturers may have chaged their foam type used. For example ATS now use Jap style foam. Gandinni used to use the euro style foam on their tourers, not sure what they use now.
Also Jaco may or may not have changed foam types, i haven't seen the new prisms yet.
GQ use a jap style foam but on a hard rim, so the foam feels like it wears and "drives" differently to say the kawaharra foam.
anyone else heard the rumour that Kawaharra is now out of business?
06-30-2009, 01:35 PM
#6
All 1/8th tires use Jap foam. It doesn't matter where they are made, it is all the same Jap foam. This came straight from Jack at Jaco. All the other foams (itallian, US, etc.) are only used in other classes, mainly carpet.
06-30-2009, 02:32 PM
#7
Suspended
Its to easy to say "its all Jap".
The post from TomB is quite good.
PS I did not know that there where problems at Kawahara, I only know of JP...
06-30-2009, 05:24 PM
#8
All the foam comes from the exact same place, but I never said there could not be some differences. Different wheels will handle differently. Some manufacturers durometers are not exactly the same, one companies 35 might be another's 37. Some might get fresh batches, others old stock. Plus it wouldn't surprise me if where the donut comes from out of the sheet makes a difference. My point was not that there was no difference from one brand to the next, my point is that Italian tires still use Jap rubber, not Italian rubber just like the US and other manufacturers do. It doesn't matter where the tire is made, it's how it is made.
06-30-2009, 09:21 PM
#9
Tech Regular
nah man not true. The CRC website had the best write up on this and basically it goes like this:
there are three types of foam. Japanese, North American, and European.
1) JAPANESE FOAM
-has a higher rubber content, and is generally a softer type of foam. It has more grip as well (generally than US spec foam) it's designed predominantly for medium temperature or cold type conditions, and designed for tourers generally which are lighter and hence don't produce as much heat as the 8th's (see euro spec foam description).
2)US SPEC FOAM
-has less rubber content, generally less grip on ashpalt because of this. It's predominantly designed with less rubber as US racer tend to do indoor racing more often, so the market/design of the foam requires less grip, and the grip is generally produced by the higher heat that this racing creates on carpet
3) EURO FOAM
-a denser (CRC calls it a "wetter" type) foam, with a rubber content between the jap and us foams. it's also a heavier foam, and is predominantly designed for use with 8th scale as this is/was the bigger class in europe.
obviously rim design, and the hardness of the plastic also affects grip levels. Softer rim, generally more grip, but also not as suitable to high grip tracks, and the harder rim is less grip on low grip tracks but more balanced on high grip tracks.
This is what i remember from the CRC website. Obviously with the change in popularity of some classes, some manufacturers may have chaged their foam type used. For example ATS now use Jap style foam. Gandinni used to use the euro style foam on their tourers, not sure what they use now.
Also Jaco may or may not have changed foam types, i haven't seen the new prisms yet.
GQ use a jap style foam but on a hard rim, so the foam feels like it wears and "drives" differently to say the kawaharra foam.
anyone else heard the rumour that Kawaharra is now out of business?
there are three types of foam. Japanese, North American, and European.
1) JAPANESE FOAM
-has a higher rubber content, and is generally a softer type of foam. It has more grip as well (generally than US spec foam) it's designed predominantly for medium temperature or cold type conditions, and designed for tourers generally which are lighter and hence don't produce as much heat as the 8th's (see euro spec foam description).
2)US SPEC FOAM
-has less rubber content, generally less grip on ashpalt because of this. It's predominantly designed with less rubber as US racer tend to do indoor racing more often, so the market/design of the foam requires less grip, and the grip is generally produced by the higher heat that this racing creates on carpet
3) EURO FOAM
-a denser (CRC calls it a "wetter" type) foam, with a rubber content between the jap and us foams. it's also a heavier foam, and is predominantly designed for use with 8th scale as this is/was the bigger class in europe.
obviously rim design, and the hardness of the plastic also affects grip levels. Softer rim, generally more grip, but also not as suitable to high grip tracks, and the harder rim is less grip on low grip tracks but more balanced on high grip tracks.
This is what i remember from the CRC website. Obviously with the change in popularity of some classes, some manufacturers may have chaged their foam type used. For example ATS now use Jap style foam. Gandinni used to use the euro style foam on their tourers, not sure what they use now.
Also Jaco may or may not have changed foam types, i haven't seen the new prisms yet.
GQ use a jap style foam but on a hard rim, so the foam feels like it wears and "drives" differently to say the kawaharra foam.
anyone else heard the rumour that Kawaharra is now out of business?
06-30-2009, 11:30 PM
#10
Tech Regular
We had plenty of discussions in the past like this one. Usually Jack Riemer posts his opinion at this point.
However, we will end up with no conclusion because the tire manufacturers are very tight lipped in this regard and don't tell their secrets...
However, we will end up with no conclusion because the tire manufacturers are very tight lipped in this regard and don't tell their secrets...
07-01-2009, 08:09 AM
#11
In dont think so (know so), there is a deffinitive difference. I agree that all foam comes from just 2 or 3 manufacturers but its not all "Jap" foam. Its the difference where the donuts are cut from the carpet and where (from the 3) the carpet comes from.
Its to easy to say "its all Jap".
The post from TomB is quite good.
PS I did not know that there where problems at Kawahara, I only know of JP...
Its to easy to say "its all Jap".
The post from TomB is quite good.
PS I did not know that there where problems at Kawahara, I only know of JP...
No more kawahara cup.
07-01-2009, 02:38 PM
#12
Tech Fanatic
Good to know, but this chart only refers to the type of foam manufactured in each region, NOT what foam each RC company uses. All the gas rubber used is Japanese. Period. We use it. They use it. Everyone uses it. There is just enough information out there to keep everyone confused and in the dark. I have no motivation to mislead or misinform anyone. What would I gain? An informed consumer is better equipped to make an educated purchase than someone who is fed a line of crap.
There are just as many reasons brand A runs different from Brand B that have nothing to do with where the rubber comes from:
Variations from batch to batch (cell structure)
Season the rubber was manufactured
Rim stiffness
Rim material and how it reacts to heat and cold
ID of the donut (stretch)
Amount of heat generated by the truing process
Age of rubber
Flexibility of the contact adhesive joining the rings
How a company marks a tire (durometer)- This is the biggest difference
Heat generated during cutting of the donut
Not to mention about 10,000 car or track variables that could impact how a "tire" performs from run to run.
There are just as many reasons brand A runs different from Brand B that have nothing to do with where the rubber comes from:
Variations from batch to batch (cell structure)
Season the rubber was manufactured
Rim stiffness
Rim material and how it reacts to heat and cold
ID of the donut (stretch)
Amount of heat generated by the truing process
Age of rubber
Flexibility of the contact adhesive joining the rings
How a company marks a tire (durometer)- This is the biggest difference
Heat generated during cutting of the donut
Not to mention about 10,000 car or track variables that could impact how a "tire" performs from run to run.
07-01-2009, 02:43 PM
#13
Thank you Jack, I keep trying to explain this but very few people believe me.
There is another factor as to why some tires work different. I want to right up a post about it but I would need a drawing and a full page to describe it. Not sure it is worth the time to do it here.
There is another factor as to why some tires work different. I want to right up a post about it but I would need a drawing and a full page to describe it. Not sure it is worth the time to do it here.
07-01-2009, 03:07 PM
#14
what is this donut? The rounded edge of tire or what?
BTW I'm not sure, if the foam is glued to rim. I think it could be moulded onto rim. In free time I will cut one wheel into halfs and see. I have plastic moulding company so I know something in this topic.
BTW I'm not sure, if the foam is glued to rim. I think it could be moulded onto rim. In free time I will cut one wheel into halfs and see. I have plastic moulding company so I know something in this topic.
07-01-2009, 03:22 PM
#15
Donut is the cylindrical piece of foam after it is cut from the sheet but before it's glued to the rim.
Yes they are glued to the rim, though I seem to recall hearing something about someone molding them on. Haven't seen that yet though.
Yes they are glued to the rim, though I seem to recall hearing something about someone molding them on. Haven't seen that yet though.