I have a theory
04-13-2008, 09:30 PM
#31
All of the points herw are great and I am so glad they are being manifested in a positive nature. We need more positive so we can weed out problems and issues that can be dealt with. With the amount that will be left back after repairs and maintenance we have planned to do a driver sponsorship program on a random basis and no drive can win 2 consecutive years in a row.
04-13-2008, 10:32 PM
#32
I think it's very nice to have some outdoor chairs so people can seat and talk while watching the track.
04-13-2008, 11:31 PM
#33
Over here in Holland it is different.
At our club you pay 72 euro to be a member for a year.
You have to pay an extra 50 euro you can earn back with maintenance work.
Racing clubcompetition will cost you nothing but it is closed for non-members
We have a open summer evening competition for electric cars and I believe it cost you 10 euro per race, for members nothing.
Sometimes there is an open club race with gas cars, it will cost outsiders also 10 euro.
We have a clubhouse where we sell food and drinks
An advertisement sign arround the track cost you (I believe) 250 euro for a year.
At the end of the year there is a party with a food and drinks where the club champions are celebrated.
We have about 150 members.....
At our club you pay 72 euro to be a member for a year.
You have to pay an extra 50 euro you can earn back with maintenance work.
Racing clubcompetition will cost you nothing but it is closed for non-members
We have a open summer evening competition for electric cars and I believe it cost you 10 euro per race, for members nothing.
Sometimes there is an open club race with gas cars, it will cost outsiders also 10 euro.
We have a clubhouse where we sell food and drinks
An advertisement sign arround the track cost you (I believe) 250 euro for a year.
At the end of the year there is a party with a food and drinks where the club champions are celebrated.
We have about 150 members.....
04-14-2008, 04:59 AM
#34
Are you allowed to sell "ready to eat" or "ready to drink" foods ? Just like selling food in small gas stations ? eg. selling oreo biscuits, pepperidge farms, coca cola, pepsi, twinkies, evian, arrowheads, snapples, doritos, etc ?
I think it's very nice to have some outdoor chairs so people can seat and talk while watching the track.
I think it's very nice to have some outdoor chairs so people can seat and talk while watching the track.
We could sell pre-packaged ready to eat food but we have every major fast food place in lless than 2 miles from the track. Usually someone will just make a run to one of those places and pick somethng up for everybody who wanted something to eat.
04-14-2008, 05:48 AM
#35
This is great feedback guys....! One thing that I really like is the worldwide input and I am very curious as to how RC racing is doing in other countries and how you guys handle things. We can all learn from each others successes and mistakes.
04-14-2008, 05:57 AM
#36
guys it isn't rocket science it's pritty fricken simple. do the following:
establish a commitiee, these people are voted in by members once a year, you have:
-president
-secretary
-treasurer
-promotions guy
-handyman/maintainance delegate (guy who organises people to do stuff, and finds issues to fix)
my personal opinion is that major positions should change every 2 years. it's good to have new faces in each position, as this expands the experience of members and increases the pool of people who have pitched in, and thus have a vested interest, in the club, as well as their hearts and minds towards doing what is right for the club.
then each year to race you must pay a membership, for example, $100
non members pay $20 to race
members pay $15
each month you have a commitiee meeting which the above elected officials attend, you discuss issues, things that need to be done etc. do it in a cafe, or a bar, or somewhere you can talk without shouting for others to hear you.
NO BITCHING OR WHINGING AT THE TRACK if a looser does this you tell then, please attend the commitiee meeting if you have any greivances...you will notice these people won't bother attending, and if they do, listen to them and respect the fact that they are going out of their way to say something, they may infact be passionate, and may be a future asset to the club.
simple really. also, club issues don't get discussed on rctech, this brings out all the whingers also, all club matters should be discussed at monthly meetings.
this is how most clubs here in Australia do it. works pritty good. you have your ups and downs, but in the long term it is very effective.
if done properly, in 2 or 3 years a club run like this can save up a sizable amount of cash
30 to 60 members per year = $6000
30 race days per year with 20 entries = $9000
canteen takings(food stall) = $2400 (an average of $4 spent per race day per racer on food)
= $14,400 to $17,400 per year profit this doesn't include running a major event which could attract larger numbers, and make a good profit for a one of event of say $4000 including canteen takings
think smart, and not selfishly and your club will work.
establish a commitiee, these people are voted in by members once a year, you have:
-president
-secretary
-treasurer
-promotions guy
-handyman/maintainance delegate (guy who organises people to do stuff, and finds issues to fix)
my personal opinion is that major positions should change every 2 years. it's good to have new faces in each position, as this expands the experience of members and increases the pool of people who have pitched in, and thus have a vested interest, in the club, as well as their hearts and minds towards doing what is right for the club.
then each year to race you must pay a membership, for example, $100
non members pay $20 to race
members pay $15
each month you have a commitiee meeting which the above elected officials attend, you discuss issues, things that need to be done etc. do it in a cafe, or a bar, or somewhere you can talk without shouting for others to hear you.
NO BITCHING OR WHINGING AT THE TRACK if a looser does this you tell then, please attend the commitiee meeting if you have any greivances...you will notice these people won't bother attending, and if they do, listen to them and respect the fact that they are going out of their way to say something, they may infact be passionate, and may be a future asset to the club.
simple really. also, club issues don't get discussed on rctech, this brings out all the whingers also, all club matters should be discussed at monthly meetings.
this is how most clubs here in Australia do it. works pritty good. you have your ups and downs, but in the long term it is very effective.
if done properly, in 2 or 3 years a club run like this can save up a sizable amount of cash
30 to 60 members per year = $6000
30 race days per year with 20 entries = $9000
canteen takings(food stall) = $2400 (an average of $4 spent per race day per racer on food)
= $14,400 to $17,400 per year profit this doesn't include running a major event which could attract larger numbers, and make a good profit for a one of event of say $4000 including canteen takings
think smart, and not selfishly and your club will work.
No mention of the $10K- $15K to pave a track, $5K+ for a timing/PA system, $2K+ for boards/paint/barriers, $1K+ for a driver stand, and misc. costs such as: RENT or PROPERTY, fencing, storage shed for equipment, track sprayer, materials to spray on track, track blower, lawnmower, brooms, compressor, tire truing station, tables.
Let's see if we can get some numbers from Toledo- IMHO, one of the best run tracks in the country. Even with the GLC, I bet they don't clear $15K a year. Where's Hammer?
04-14-2008, 10:35 AM
#37
Getting people out to work on the track and help out...
A number of ideas, and here is another one... (Not my idea, I read here some time ago...)
If you come out and help you get a 5.00 discount on the entry fee, but before you do this, raise the fees by 5.00. So it is a choice, if you help you can get a discount, if you do not help you pay... In the case you do not have a club.
A number of ideas, and here is another one... (Not my idea, I read here some time ago...)
If you come out and help you get a 5.00 discount on the entry fee, but before you do this, raise the fees by 5.00. So it is a choice, if you help you can get a discount, if you do not help you pay... In the case you do not have a club.
04-15-2008, 12:19 AM
#38
Ted already said it, but your numbers are hosed.... 30 race days? Maybe in CA.....
No mention of the $10K- $15K to pave a track, $5K+ for a timing/PA system, $2K+ for boards/paint/barriers, $1K+ for a driver stand, and misc. costs such as: RENT or PROPERTY, fencing, storage shed for equipment, track sprayer, materials to spray on track, track blower, lawnmower, brooms, compressor, tire truing station, tables.
Let's see if we can get some numbers from Toledo- IMHO, one of the best run tracks in the country. Even with the GLC, I bet they don't clear $15K a year. Where's Hammer?
No mention of the $10K- $15K to pave a track, $5K+ for a timing/PA system, $2K+ for boards/paint/barriers, $1K+ for a driver stand, and misc. costs such as: RENT or PROPERTY, fencing, storage shed for equipment, track sprayer, materials to spray on track, track blower, lawnmower, brooms, compressor, tire truing station, tables.
Let's see if we can get some numbers from Toledo- IMHO, one of the best run tracks in the country. Even with the GLC, I bet they don't clear $15K a year. Where's Hammer?
This is the problem you Yanks are having, people from around the world are litterally telling you guys how to do it, yet you insist on sticking your heads in the murky pits of negativity.... you ask for help, yet disregard the REAL and LEGITIMATE and WELL GROUNDED experiences and instructions people from successful clubs around the world give you.
Have many of you helped a club? if you answer is a consistent NO (by help i mean put in a good years worth of unpaid assistance) then you have no legitimate position to say that our advice is flawed, or our numbers are wrong.
mate the numbers i gave you are fine. there are 52 weeks in the year...i'm sure you can come across an extra 5 race days/special events somewere along the year
...STOP ARGUING SEMANTICS and listen to the concrete and legitimate advice people give you.Face it, the guys who whinge, and provide negative comments are probably the ones who are not interested in seriously helping anyway.
so you can only fit in 10 to 15 race days per year? ok, then find a class you can race in the winter? outdoor buggy championship maybe? if weather is such an issue, find an undercover area, a carpark, or something....use your brainpower, and search for answers as opposed to looking for negatives to avoid the hard work you KNOW is required if you REALLY wanted to do it.
Yanks talk about "making it on your own" yeah well guess what, Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither was it built by one man.
Stop thinking that there is a superhero rc guy out there who will build you RC nirvana, and go out there and do it yourself with a group of commited guys...the track won't be the pritiest to start of with but just getting an idea of the ground, and into reality is an achievement, build your dream track from small steps.
04-15-2008, 01:51 PM
#39
Tech Regular
Well, so much for the friendly conversation!
04-15-2008, 02:14 PM
#40
I predict a heated rebuttle, but TomB makes sense. It is easier to talk about the challenges instead of trying to find solutions. I am a member of a very successful club in the U.S. so I know it can happen. It isn't easy, but very doable if you have people with the right attitudes. Our membership and registration count is getting out of control. What a nice problem to have.
04-15-2008, 07:04 PM
#41
yeah i sort of realised i might have put too much emotion into it when i posted. sorry
but my point is, don't ask for help, then say "nah your suggestions can't work" that's just annoying for the people who are trying to help.if in some locations of the USA there are issues with prolonged weather halting outdoor racing, then find a location under cover, race other classes, etc etc. The other problem is people are not acustomed to helping out (this is the impression i get) this is probably a harder issue to solve, and would require more than just a year of hard work, it would probably more realistically require 4-5 years
to change this mindframe.when people start seeing the positive results of co operation then they are more likely to continue helping.
why don't you use a case study of a club in the USA that has built a suuccessful club using non payed members, send it to ROAR and they can promote it as a "blueprint" as such to help aspiring clubs build themselves up.
you can write it sort of in a step by step guide with the positives and pitfalls you should look out for, along with helpful hints and issues experienced whilst building the club in the more difficult years/early years. ROAR should provide inspiration to other racers to build the scene, this could be a simple way.
04-15-2008, 09:02 PM
#42
Tech Regular
Over here in South Korea there are no clubs. There are teams which are centered around hobby shops. The tracks are independant of the clubs. A few tracks are public but most are private. Want to practise on a private track? $20. No memberships. For races, either importers/distributors rent out the track for the day or shops rent out the track for a day. Everyone who shows up to the event pays an entrance fee of about $35.
This formula hasn't been a roaring success. There weren't that many to begin with but at least 4 have gone out of business in the last 5 years. Of the remainder, practise days had to go from $12 to $20 just to stay afloat.
My theory on the reason for the demise is demographics and competition from other forms of entertainment (e.g. video games, the internet, etc). On the demographic side, fewer kids, few Dads, less interest. In no way am I an expert but it seems 20 years ago there were a lot of Dad-son teams which has given way to guys in the 20-40+ range.
Still, like someone said before, if you get a big enough group, you can run a successful club. For smaller regions, uhhhh, virtual racing???
The solution?
It's a given that most racers these days are legally eligable to drink. Don't they serve beer in Europe? They've got tons of racing tracks over there. And racing isn't a sport, it's a game! Is horse racing a sport or a game? It's a game. Games mean betting.
so . . .
Sell booze and allow betting at RC events!!!! YEAH!!! There's your CASH baby! RC aint for kids no more! Betting and booze! You can sell parts at discount at the beginning of the event and raise prices based on alcohol sales.
This formula hasn't been a roaring success. There weren't that many to begin with but at least 4 have gone out of business in the last 5 years. Of the remainder, practise days had to go from $12 to $20 just to stay afloat.
My theory on the reason for the demise is demographics and competition from other forms of entertainment (e.g. video games, the internet, etc). On the demographic side, fewer kids, few Dads, less interest. In no way am I an expert but it seems 20 years ago there were a lot of Dad-son teams which has given way to guys in the 20-40+ range.
Still, like someone said before, if you get a big enough group, you can run a successful club. For smaller regions, uhhhh, virtual racing???
The solution?
It's a given that most racers these days are legally eligable to drink. Don't they serve beer in Europe? They've got tons of racing tracks over there. And racing isn't a sport, it's a game! Is horse racing a sport or a game? It's a game. Games mean betting.
so . . .
Sell booze and allow betting at RC events!!!! YEAH!!! There's your CASH baby! RC aint for kids no more! Betting and booze! You can sell parts at discount at the beginning of the event and raise prices based on alcohol sales.
04-15-2008, 09:34 PM
#43
hahaha..... drink and drive
are you sure you know which car is yours ?
j/k back to topic, the $20 practice price is stiff.
04-18-2008, 03:23 PM
#44
Tech Regular
Given that gasoline for real cars costs $1.75 a litre ($7.00 a gallon) a trip to the track costs $20 in gas alone. $20 entrance. Tires, parts. A Saturday costs $100.00. If that's not a hobby killer I don't know what is.
04-18-2008, 05:44 PM
#45
IN the end the racer is truely his own worse enemy. Working together will solve more than not. Helping out your club would be more productive than not. Giving from both sides no matter how you look at it is better than seeing track afer track close down.