GT class--buggy-based on road!
09-20-2013, 12:01 PM
#9076
Remember, all of us in the racing community are promoters for racing, or the lack luster word "salesmen". Everyone knows how hard it is to get someone to come out to a track, especially ours. The next thing is "Cool I wanna race, how much does it costs?" This is where you lose 80% of the people. The last thing I wanna tell somebody is you "Start out here (Spec) then when you want to move up you have to shell out another $1000, cause see that long wheelbase car you bought for Spec isn't a competitive platform for Pro racing, and you'll probably want to upgrade your motor too" I has been brought to my attention, if you want to make it slow, throw a $2 plastic restrictor in it.
Where are you getting 1000.00 from??? Center cvd,short chassis and a body is around 200.00 and you have an open competetive TeamC just like mine!
We tested restrictors and they do very little except for maybe a tenth or two on a long straight, actually felt better on the infield and had slightly better fuel economy. a restrictor vastly depends on the VE, stroke and ports of a specific engine, for instance the REDS onroad engines use 9mm venturies and still get 9min30s of runtime where as on a Nova the 8 usually works best and even then the economy is not as good as the REDS. So even with a restrictor all engines will not be the same speed some may even be faster depending on pipe selection. This is why thats not a good idea, you have guys like me that know how to exploit that rule. If you have a restrictor rule than you have to have a stroke and port rule and then you will have to specify a pipe/header, and maybe even limit the gearing. In reality a smaller venturi only effects max flow and in some cases will make more power down low from the "venturi" effect. so what do you do to an engine that has limited top end? gear it to the moon to exploit where the powerband is. May as well just have a spec engine and eliminate all of the guesswork as that would confuse everyone.
Last edited by MantisWorx; 09-20-2013 at 01:58 PM.
09-20-2013, 12:03 PM
#9077
(wink sponsor wink)dont know but I might like the spec where all are equal just like stock racing before
heck I even raced 3 cars in Porter 1/10, GT and 1/8 ohh yeahhh
again I do applaud you guys because of your dedication to GT racing
will see and race with you soon in Nov.
09-20-2013, 12:32 PM
#9081
Its all good man, these points need to be discussed and knowing that your not going to blow up for no reason makes it easy to discuss with you!!
A Serpent is not the only choice for open class, i think that has been and is being proven especially here lately.HRP is now distributing TeamC (as of yesterday!!) so expect the line to start popping up at more LHS's soon!
The REDS engine is not slow by any means, compare it to the Maxy modified 5pt with more top end, its actually very responsive and linear, so an engine will not have to immediately be purchased especially for a class graduation.
If in the event that the person stepping up to open does want to buy a Serpent he should have no problem selling his SPEC car to someone else especially if it is already setup and ready to go as an ARTR. Does that sound logical?
09-20-2013, 01:13 PM
#9083
Remember, all of us in the racing community are promoters for racing, or the lack luster word "salesmen". Everyone knows how hard it is to get someone to come out to a track, especially ours. The next thing is "Cool I wanna race, how much does it costs?" This is where you lose 80% of the people. The last thing I wanna tell somebody is you "Start out here (Spec) then when you want to move up you have to shell out another $1000, cause see that long wheelbase car you bought for Spec isn't a competitive platform for Pro racing, and you'll probably want to upgrade your motor too" I has been brought to my attention, if you want to make it slow, throw a $2 plastic restrictor in it.
First you know, first hand only very small percentage of your customers are die hard racers, weather you have a Track or not only makes a difference in that your able to expose and bring in potential customers by holding races.
RTRs are your bread and butter to getting future regular customers, that's why companies that produce them are so successful. You and I both know the profit margin is very very small on the sell of just the kit. You make your money on the parts after the first sell. What makes a RTR so easy to sell? Because its simple, straight forward and doesn't confuse you potential customer with multiple choices.
If you start explaining to your new prospect, well you can choice long or short, cars in these brands... Motors are these.. Pipe are these oh and tire choices are..... You get my point.. I can almost guarantee you mind Fked him and have now put some doubt in his choice entirely.
OR you can say, we race 2 classes of these cars (GT8) one is a more advanced level (pro) with many different choices to choose from. The other is a SPEC class were everyone is running almost exactly the same equipment. Here's our packaged deal you can purchase for $xxx and you can decide to just play with it or want to come race it, we are here for you.
It's the oldest method of thinking, many of us nowadays have forgotten, KISS=KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID, by nature we tend to over think things and lose interest or think our way out of it.
Even for myself the multiple choices can become exhausting.
Someone posted this a couple pages back and couldn't agree more, "OPEN keeps it going, SPEC keeps it alive"
It's a ARTR Race Car thats it.
09-20-2013, 01:24 PM
#9084
Ok I'm sold how much is one of those spec cars
Order me one
Order me one
09-20-2013, 01:56 PM
#9086
You got my number Everett!
On a side note, look how much has been done in 6 days.......THIS is what a forum is for, everyone doesnt need to agree on everything but having the ability to discuss a subject as adults gets things done. It was important that this entire situation was timed right and luckily the carcinogen was temporarily delt with so we as a group could head in the right direction. When the cancer returns it will be too late. Anything that comes out of his mouth will be pointless and useless verbal diarrhea. Arguing is important to any relationship (I have been married for 20yrs
) and forums are no different, we all know what to expect from each other by now JUST like a family should be! GOOD JOB EVERYONE
On a side note, look how much has been done in 6 days.......THIS is what a forum is for, everyone doesnt need to agree on everything but having the ability to discuss a subject as adults gets things done. It was important that this entire situation was timed right and luckily the carcinogen was temporarily delt with so we as a group could head in the right direction. When the cancer returns it will be too late. Anything that comes out of his mouth will be pointless and useless verbal diarrhea. Arguing is important to any relationship (I have been married for 20yrs
) and forums are no different, we all know what to expect from each other by now JUST like a family should be! GOOD JOB EVERYONE
09-20-2013, 02:44 PM
#9087
Locally...
First off I think it is awesome that things are moving forward in organizing the GT community.
Here in Utah we race two classes of GT. We have an open class and a sportsman class. Our car rules for both classes are pretty much the same as your open class rules. New drivers start in the sportsman class. NO sponsored drivers in sportsman. Ability gets you out of the sportsman class and into the open class. As soon as you start to dominate the sportsman class you are invited to open. When you are ready to move up, your car is ready too, no need to buy anything new to move up. It works great for everyone.
If you are the guy who doesn't have alot of money but loves to race for the fun of it you can stay in sportsman forever as long as you are not winning every race. If you are the guy who can throw all kinds of money at it and want to be competitive, you may only stay in sportsman for a few months. When a new driver comes to the track for the first time he is not as overwhelmed in our sportsman class by a track full of experienced drivers. Some nights it gets pretty wild out there in our sportsman class. Great fun to watch.
Our experienced racers will help out the new guys at the track. They will help with set up and tuning or what ever they need. Most nights they spend more time on the new racers cars than their own. There perspective on this is; Local racing is practice for the national events and locally is where you can grow the class so invest time in the new guys.
We have a portable track that we set up here so it is small by comparison to most permanent tracks. Our tracks are usually set up very technical so car control is developed. We have found that the long chassis is not as good as the short chassis here locally and we currently have only one guy running the long chassis in sportsman. We have a shop that sells Kyosho, Team C, and Serpent.
The Serpent has become the most popular car locally because of the durability and support. I have beat the crap out of my serpent and it just keeps going. Anyone that was at the KO Propo race this year in LA can attest to this. I was in the main wide open about 3/4 the way down the straight when a board was knocked from the infield in front of me. I hit that board, no chance to get on my brakes at all. My serpent became airborne and tumbled probably 40 feet. When it finally stopped it was on it's wheels. I brought it to the pits and three body clips later I was back on the track. Nothing broke. Not to say that the Team C or Kyoshos aren't competitive. We also have one of our top drivers that has his Team C right up front every week. Here recently we have had two guys get serpent sponsorship so that is where the bulk of our following is going.
My point is I don't think the SPEC class will ever catch hold here. With what we have in place to get and develop racers, it just doesn't make sense to push a car (long Chassis) that you will not be able to grow into our open class with. Now that being said I think what we are doing here can still be a part of your plan. We have guys that travel to west coast races and we are looking really good at having more travel next year. Great work Marcus and Tony hopefully this will pull the current GT community together and cancer will be cured. This is such a fun car to drive and the people are awesome. See you at the races!
Here in Utah we race two classes of GT. We have an open class and a sportsman class. Our car rules for both classes are pretty much the same as your open class rules. New drivers start in the sportsman class. NO sponsored drivers in sportsman. Ability gets you out of the sportsman class and into the open class. As soon as you start to dominate the sportsman class you are invited to open. When you are ready to move up, your car is ready too, no need to buy anything new to move up. It works great for everyone.
If you are the guy who doesn't have alot of money but loves to race for the fun of it you can stay in sportsman forever as long as you are not winning every race. If you are the guy who can throw all kinds of money at it and want to be competitive, you may only stay in sportsman for a few months. When a new driver comes to the track for the first time he is not as overwhelmed in our sportsman class by a track full of experienced drivers. Some nights it gets pretty wild out there in our sportsman class. Great fun to watch.
Our experienced racers will help out the new guys at the track. They will help with set up and tuning or what ever they need. Most nights they spend more time on the new racers cars than their own. There perspective on this is; Local racing is practice for the national events and locally is where you can grow the class so invest time in the new guys.
We have a portable track that we set up here so it is small by comparison to most permanent tracks. Our tracks are usually set up very technical so car control is developed. We have found that the long chassis is not as good as the short chassis here locally and we currently have only one guy running the long chassis in sportsman. We have a shop that sells Kyosho, Team C, and Serpent.
The Serpent has become the most popular car locally because of the durability and support. I have beat the crap out of my serpent and it just keeps going. Anyone that was at the KO Propo race this year in LA can attest to this. I was in the main wide open about 3/4 the way down the straight when a board was knocked from the infield in front of me. I hit that board, no chance to get on my brakes at all. My serpent became airborne and tumbled probably 40 feet. When it finally stopped it was on it's wheels. I brought it to the pits and three body clips later I was back on the track. Nothing broke. Not to say that the Team C or Kyoshos aren't competitive. We also have one of our top drivers that has his Team C right up front every week. Here recently we have had two guys get serpent sponsorship so that is where the bulk of our following is going.
My point is I don't think the SPEC class will ever catch hold here. With what we have in place to get and develop racers, it just doesn't make sense to push a car (long Chassis) that you will not be able to grow into our open class with. Now that being said I think what we are doing here can still be a part of your plan. We have guys that travel to west coast races and we are looking really good at having more travel next year. Great work Marcus and Tony hopefully this will pull the current GT community together and cancer will be cured. This is such a fun car to drive and the people are awesome. See you at the races!
09-20-2013, 03:11 PM
#9088
This is fine, the open rules are the same regardless so your fast guys can run open just like at any other event! no big deal, It is hard to break up a flourishing sportsman class so why bother? if it is working for you guys that way and you are bringing up the newbies there is absolutely no harm in that and we applaud you guys because that is how it needs to be done. As far as the long chassis goes i stand strong with the idea that purchasing a short chassis,CVD and body for the GT8L will bring the spec car up to open speeds in no time.Now converting a DM1 or IGT to short i can see your argument there but When i speak of SPEC the official car is GT8L so thats what i am referring too.
09-20-2013, 03:32 PM
#9089
Tech Addict
I have a very tough time liking anything on your spec set up. I understand you want to have slower cars and that's cool, makes sense for Spec. The one motor rule is terrible in my opinion. You shut out way too many people by doing so. Then you throw in the long chassis only which heavily sides with the Team C. You monopolize the Spec to what you two promote Team C and Reds. Not for me I'm 100% Novarossi and 100% Serpent yet neither are on the radar. Hard for any of us with the Snake to look at this in a positive way.
This is exactly what our local "spec" racers do. We build a class of what we have and build an advantage to our corner. Then everyone else has to buy buy buy to get in.
I dunno gents I dunno Look at it this way, how would you guys feel if a new GT class poped up and no flat chassis were allowed? this is the situation alot of us are in with this.
I'm torn really... I like the idea of a heavier car, longer wheel base and a set few motors. The Tire choice is completely off the wall, most of us around here haven't even heard of those.
Seeking understanding here gents... is this just for your local crew or are you trying to get everyone involved?
This is exactly what our local "spec" racers do. We build a class of what we have and build an advantage to our corner. Then everyone else has to buy buy buy to get in.
I dunno gents I dunno Look at it this way, how would you guys feel if a new GT class poped up and no flat chassis were allowed? this is the situation alot of us are in with this.
I'm torn really... I like the idea of a heavier car, longer wheel base and a set few motors. The Tire choice is completely off the wall, most of us around here haven't even heard of those.
Seeking understanding here gents... is this just for your local crew or are you trying to get everyone involved?
09-20-2013, 03:34 PM
#9090
As stated there is a "Sportsman" Class in IGT8F with the exact rules of OPEN.
But I'm Not going to be the one to tell someone, Ok buddy you race Sportsman.
What did bother me is that I was approached with: what do you think your doing man, your plan will not work, your SPEC it's only going to hurt the class by being exclusive to the products you support. Ok Yes I support the brands and products that support me, but isn't that what I'm suppose to do.
After also asking several times before and during the discussion... Ok then what is your solution? Till finally saying what do you want me to do to satisfy or fix the problem.
So I did as requested and you now have said Sportsman class, I'm waiting for the official rules for the Sportsman class. If there is any special requirements. That's why it TBA.
I will end it like this, who else has stepped up?? I will support and promote the class, products and people in its entirety. But I won't accept anyone telling I'm wrong by trying it a different way. It's a additional class I created, to my views and opinions, it's an option to everything that has already been established. I'm not taking anything away from what already exist. Don't like it don't run it, simple.
But I'm Not going to be the one to tell someone, Ok buddy you race Sportsman.
What did bother me is that I was approached with: what do you think your doing man, your plan will not work, your SPEC it's only going to hurt the class by being exclusive to the products you support. Ok Yes I support the brands and products that support me, but isn't that what I'm suppose to do.
After also asking several times before and during the discussion... Ok then what is your solution? Till finally saying what do you want me to do to satisfy or fix the problem.
So I did as requested and you now have said Sportsman class, I'm waiting for the official rules for the Sportsman class. If there is any special requirements. That's why it TBA.
I will end it like this, who else has stepped up?? I will support and promote the class, products and people in its entirety. But I won't accept anyone telling I'm wrong by trying it a different way. It's a additional class I created, to my views and opinions, it's an option to everything that has already been established. I'm not taking anything away from what already exist. Don't like it don't run it, simple.