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Old 10-17-2008, 12:45 AM   #1276
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I think there are some changes in this respect, too, as I couldn't slide in the bearings on the new 2-speed shaft. It's too tight. I tried two types of bearings with the same size and didn't want to force it. The brass bearings seem to work better now what comes to tolerances in my opinion, so I left them.
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Old 10-17-2008, 04:38 AM   #1277
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Thanks for the tip. I've seen several conversions but I still like the stock 2-speed best. It's lightweight and therefore has little rotational mass. It's also simple to maintain. If keep this one working I don't see a need for anything else. After the pin wears out inside the 2nd gear it's easy to replace with a slightly bigger one in dia (cut from a drill bit), then it lasts usually very long.
I agree with you on the plastic gears, Mikar, I run the steel gears on my GTP2 with a modded engine and hard foam tires for drifting/show in front of the hobby shop to promote the car and attract attention. That is the only time I have lost spur gears and I am pretty sure the failures are from abuse and clutch heat. I run the stock 2 speed on the DM1 spec with aluminum center and rear drive shafts from the hyper 8 for even less rotating mass.
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Old 10-17-2008, 06:53 AM   #1278
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Do you guys know what size bearing is required to work for replacement of the bushings?

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I think there are some changes in this respect, too, as I couldn't slide in the bearings on the new 2-speed shaft. It's too tight. I tried two types of bearings with the same size and didn't want to force it. The brass bearings seem to work better now what comes to tolerances in my opinion, so I left them.
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Old 10-17-2008, 07:37 AM   #1279
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Default shoe type 2 speed clutch.

That sounds great Juan. Give me a call, my number is 214-802-2879.

Setting the shift point early is a good idea to help save the 2nd gear. Striped 2nd gears is why the shoe type clutch was developed awhile back by Serpent I believe. When the car shifts to 2nd the engine is in the fat part of the power band, maximum torque and power. Shoe type 2 speeds can be set to slip a lot, a little or none.
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Old 10-17-2008, 07:42 AM   #1280
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Default What upgrades?

Hey Jspeed is your track letting upgraded kyosho buggy and IGT parts find their way on to cars? AN example: Buggy Universals, and the new alloy shock towers and alloy shocks made as upgrades for the IGT?
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Old 10-17-2008, 08:41 AM   #1281
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same way I was thinking when you don't have enough guys to separate the classes, but hopefully soon open and spec will grow it's tooo much fun driving thses cars.
I really don't see the OPEN class will work....the reason is, I have seen ppl dropping some $500 modified buggy engine or even some ON ROAD engine on them...even with those super dooper expensive FOAM tires, their cars are EVERYWHERE because the car itself just was not designed to handle those kinda ON ROAD ENGINE power...And I have seen them running different shores of rubber tires, and complaint none of them work, I am wondering why they did not figure out and have not look at those 2.8HP engine first...LOL.

There is a limit on these GT chassis...a buggy base design suppose to handle the TORQUE instead of RPM....make it OPEN, its just make those ppl who like to throw money on the wrong car happy...does not make them any fun to drive or faster.

There is a reason why they are $400 RTR. And I am hoping we are trying to keep them that way...Electric ppl already started the TRANS-AM class and it is a HUGH SUCESS....I have seen ppl using a $50 4-5 years old HPI Pro 2 TC and can still run at the A-main at those class...may be the GT can attract those who has a old buggy chassis owner to RENEW their buggy with very little money and race and have fun.
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Old 10-17-2008, 08:47 AM   #1282
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Hey JSpeed...would you like to step up and foam a IGT class here on rctech and draw up some guide line about those track that wants to pick up this class?

First, start with the SPEC class with open rubber tires (no foams) and limited option parts (open brand but limited to the specific option parts like 2-speed gear but no centax or shocks upgrade but no alteration of the parts itself...etc)

I am sure alot of us here can help to add or provide opinion about the rule..
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Old 10-17-2008, 08:54 AM   #1283
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Originally Posted by wwoodruff View Post
Hey Jspeed is your track letting upgraded kyosho buggy and IGT parts find their way on to cars? AN example: Buggy Universals, and the new alloy shock towers and alloy shocks made as upgrades for the IGT?
Yep, Jspeed, king of stock, is now up for opening up the class to what ever mods that can be done, allowed. It must have stock motor with pull start and pipe is the only thing remains in the rules???
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Old 10-17-2008, 09:24 AM   #1284
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Hey thanks for the info, thats the stuff I really wanted to hear. I think Im gonna pull my V-Spec w/jp3 out of my truggy and run it for a while till I figure out which combo is gonna work the best. Now the big ??? is what tires are gonna be the choice for CP. You think I can be competative with rubbers if the other guys are running foams. I like the idea of running rubber to get more use out of them before there done.

We've been trying to use rubber tires at CP for some time actually since we had our first DM-1 and the way the track has been treated rubber just does not work, you have to get foam on the track, but the best thing about foam there is that the wear factor is very good you can run two full days on foam and still have them for later to practice.
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Old 10-17-2008, 09:57 AM   #1285
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Solara, Frank & everyone else,

Over a year ago I saw some guys playing at a local track with some GT cars. I thought they looked cool. They were kind of quick and hit all kind of stuff without breaking all day. At the time I was with a sanctioning body working with several manufacturers putting on events across America and I thought, why aren’t these cars being raced too?

I tried to contact the companies that offered these GT cars and asked them if they were interested in working with me to develop a cost effective class for these cars to attract “new blood” to R/C racing. I also explained to them that if our economy “went south” an inexpensive “Spec” program based on their RTR GT products could help keep people racing because of the lower cost that “conventional” on-road racing.

I thought it was a solid idea, but after many hours of calls, emails and PMs, only one manufacturer was interested in working with me on it. I’d heard that Bernie at Leisure Hours was running a “Spec” class program with some success with the Kyosho IGT. Since, Kyosho wanted to work with me on the “IGT Spec” program, so I adopted rules close to Leisure Hours’.

The rules allowed racers to do modifications to the RTR car, but had to retain the RTR engine/pipe combos. Rubber tires had to be used and foams were out because of the insane cost once racers started “truing” down a brand new set for each qualifier to gain an edge over racers that didn’t have deep pockets.

The rules were adopted at “beta” tested at SS Raceway in Tampa.
It worked good, at one time there were nearly 30 different IGT racers attending our track over the span of a 10 week period; until things went wrong. Several racers that had problems or sucked at setting up their cars or at driving started to want to “mod” their cars for more speed.

All of a sudden I became the “bad” guy because I wouldn’t allow centax clutches, 5, 7 or 9 port engines were starting to appear in cars and there was even talk of “drift” boxes being used by some to gain control during races.

About the same time, the manufacturers that didn’t want involvement in the new class I was trying to develop, saw that it was working and wanted in now. A lot of bad blood started, because they felt I was acting like a “dictator” and I didn’t own the track.

The concept of the “GT” class was very simple. Buy an RTR GT “Buggy Based” car, make changes to electronics, set-up, oils and use the RTR engine/pipe combo’s that came with the cars. A racer was able to use optional factory parts available for their RTR car for better durability and to change set-up if needed.

Now look at what we have today, over a year after the fact, guys are swapping engines/pipes, running foam tires, pro level drivers showing up at races and taking on “average Joe” drivers to promote their chassis as a better one than the IGT (which that started it all) at tracks like Leisure Hours and others across America.

I’m basically done trying to promote any logic, rules and the concept on these threads anymore. I’m tired of being the “bad guy” under attack from guys & companies that don’t want a level playing field to exist in the class or should have returned my calls when I was putting it together as a national program.

All I want to do is have fun & race, if I’ve pissed anyone off for “airing dirty laundry”, get over it or send your pro level drivers down to Florida to race in a class that was intended to help our sport grow and keep on-road racing alive during hard economic times.

If people want to screw it up before it has a chance to mature as a class, so be it. I don't make the rules, I don't own a track and I'm starting not to care that much anymore.

I do wish to give a big thanks to the crew at Kyosho America for believing in the “GT Spec” class concept & supporting it from the start when no one else wanted to.

See you at the races
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:05 AM   #1286
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Another thing to consider with the stripping of gears with the IGT especially is the chassis flex, the sport chassis isn't the stiffest by any means, neither are Kyosho buggy "racing" chassis's. Twisting of the whole car in a chicane or jumping a corner marker can tighten and loosen gear mesh, causing wear, which leads to failure. Many TC and Lola cars have additional braces to prevent this. There are chassis stiffeners available for many of the offroad buggies to reduce this. Something to consider.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:10 AM   #1287
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Originally Posted by Jspeed View Post
Solara, Frank & everyone else,

Over a year ago I saw some guys playing at a local track with some GT cars. I thought they looked cool. They were kind of quick and hit all kind of stuff without breaking all day. At the time I was with a sanctioning body working with several manufacturers putting on events across America and I thought, why aren’t these cars being raced too?

I tried to contact the companies that offered these GT cars and asked them if they were interested in working with me to develop a cost effective class for these cars to attract “new blood” to R/C racing. I also explained to them that if our economy “went south” an inexpensive “Spec” program based on their RTR GT products could help keep people racing because of the lower cost that “conventional” on-road racing.

I thought it was a solid idea, but after many hours of calls, emails and PMs, only one manufacturer was interested in working with me on it. I’d heard that Bernie at Leisure Hours was running a “Spec” class program with some success with the Kyosho IGT. Since, Kyosho wanted to work with me on the “IGT Spec” program, so I adopted rules close to Leisure Hours’.

The rules allowed racers to do modifications to the RTR car, but had to retain the RTR engine/pipe combos. Rubber tires had to be used and foams were out because of the insane cost once racers started “truing” down a brand new set for each qualifier to gain an edge over racers that didn’t have deep pockets.

The rules were adopted at “beta” tested at SS Raceway in Tampa.
It worked good, at one time there were nearly 30 different IGT racers attending our track over the span of a 10 week period; until things went wrong. Several racers that had problems or sucked at setting up their cars or at driving started to want to “mod” their cars for more speed.

All of a sudden I became the “bad” guy because I wouldn’t allow centax clutches, 5, 7 or 9 port engines were starting to appear in cars and there was even talk of “drift” boxes being used by some to gain control during races.

About the same time, the manufacturers that didn’t want involvement in the new class I was trying to develop, saw that it was working and wanted in now. A lot of bad blood started, because they felt I was acting like a “dictator” and I didn’t own the track.

The concept of the “GT” class was very simple. Buy an RTR GT “Buggy Based” car, make changes to electronics, set-up, oils and use the RTR engine/pipe combo’s that came with the cars. A racer was able to use optional factory parts available for their RTR car for better durability and to change set-up if needed.

Now look at what we have today, over a year after the fact, guys are swapping engines/pipes, running foam tires, pro level drivers showing up at races and taking on “average Joe” drivers to promote their chassis as a better one than the IGT (which that started it all) at tracks like Leisure Hours and others across America.

I’m basically done trying to promote any logic, rules and the concept on these threads anymore. I’m tired of being the “bad guy” under attack from guys & companies that don’t want a level playing field to exist in the class or should have returned my calls when I was putting it together as a national program.

All I want to do is have fun & race, if I’ve pissed anyone off for “airing dirty laundry”, get over it or send your pro level drivers down to Florida to race in a class that was intended to help our sport grow and keep on-road racing alive during hard economic times.

If people want to screw it up before it has a chance to mature as a class, so be it. I don't make the rules, I don't own a track and I'm starting not to care that much anymore.

I do wish to give a big thanks to the crew at Kyosho America for believing in the “GT Spec” class concept & supporting it from the start when no one else wanted to.

See you at the races
Very well spoken Jspeed.

I think that there should be 2 classes - 1) one class that runs by the original rules of limited modifications (spec class) and 2) another class for the people that want to hop the car up (open class).

This way there is a place for everyone. I personally will be in the Spec Class. After 20+ years of 1/8 on road open class racing I am tired of spending a ton of $$$ to race. I switched to the IGT Spec Class this year and I don't think I have every had more fun while spending so little money.

It is time for ROAR to step up and recognize the class and make rules.

Lee
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:35 AM   #1288
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Jspeed,

First of all, I don't consider you the "bad guy". I have seen how you have put a lot of time and effort in promoting this class and I, for one, am thankful. I have more fun running this class than any other class, on or off road, that I currently run. In fact, the set up that you gave me months ago works like a charm (and still works today at the tracks I run my IGT car).

With so many other IGT-type cars on the market now, my philosophy is not to exclude them from the picture. However, they would still have to follow the established "Spec" rules that you have currently established (and others have modified to run in their specific areas). Like you, I don't agree with modded them to the max with foam tires and super-hot modified engines, but with some engines not up to par (first gen IGT and some OFNA GTP), bending this rule to allow a couple of low-cost replacements (like the OS 21VG, RB C3, or Dynamite/Sportwerks .26PS) might be the difference between keeping a racer in this class or losing them (just my opinion).

If you allow an "open" class, you keep the guys that want to mod their cars to the max around and racing. But, you have to be clear about the rules for the classes and strictly enforce them, only allowing exceptions/changes during the racing season if their is a known/ongoing issue (like Bvoltz did with the engine rules for the first gen IGT, laxing them a bit to allow only three additional low-cost engines, no exceptions).

Don't give up the fight unless you have to. Again, I appreciate all that you have done to start and promote this class. You know that you have one ally in your corner from Big D, Texas.
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:42 AM   #1289
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I think the spec class is an awesome idea..I also like the idea of running the RTR engine..... However I find it hard to base a racing class around the RTR engine supplied with these cars, If the manufacturers would supply a little better quality engine it would be nice... as much as people may hate me saying this, but I feel the Kyosho RTR engines are pretty bottom of the barrel when it comes to engine quality and performance.. basing a racing class off a RTR motor is a awesome idea to keep everyone even, but dam those Kyosho RTR engines are a nasty curse to saddle a racing class with IMHO.... I honestly cannot think of a lower quality, poorer performing motor then a Kyosho RTR engine...... It would be nice if a Spec class list was made of acceptable engines, almost like the EFRA rules with tuned pipes... there are many quality lower priced engines that people could run that would not cripple the class like allowing unlimited motors....... I however do not see the joy in chasing needles and airleaks in low grade Taiwanese RTR engines..i would rather fire up a motor and worry about racing...
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Old 10-17-2008, 10:47 AM   #1290
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I agree if the engines start going any faster than the pull start mills that come with the cars then I will sell mine as well. I wish the basic rules would be adopted.

RTR level engines
rubber tires
minimal hop ups to help with durability

Please Roar come up with a rule set that makes a class for the ofna / kyosho cars that 1/8th scale, exlcuding the original 1/7th scale dm1. That makes a budget class with a list of available motors that are in production and have a street price less than $200

No centax, no foams, no engine mods, stock exhaust
basic upgrades and mods only, things like servos, linkage, gearing and shocks / springs should be the main things they can alter.

my .02
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