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Old 10-08-2008, 01:31 PM   #1201
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garen might be onto something, foams to tq and rubber for the main event. Have you ever ran your foams for a 30min main? how did they wear? I would imagine they would wear pretty quick as heavy as these cars are.

Also what shore rubber did you run in the main? if it was to low of a rating you could easily burn them up in 30 min?

Also has anyone used a one way or a spool in these cars with success?
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:40 PM   #1202
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I ran a 30-20 set up on my tires during the main and a 20 -10 to qual. They both had the same feel but I can loosen the car up on the 30-20s with more braking, I want to try the same shores next time front and rear 20-20. But when using the foams I always use Ofna blue for the front and greens on the rear.
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:57 PM   #1203
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I don't think foam in qualifying and rubber in the main is a or the 'solution'. I ran foam in quals and rubber in the main because: a-the rules allowed for it, b-I am out there having fun and trying different things, c-everyone else ran rubber in the main, so I ran rubber too.

I have run foam tires in a 20 minute main, not a 30 minute main. Wear depends on many factors, and while one can argue I ran my foam tires in 10 minute increments and maybe they wear differently than running them in one 40 minute shot, I don't think there is any truth to that. The foam tires I ran at this race had more track time on them than my rubber tires, but the rubber tires wore faster.

Different brands of foam and rubber tires have different shore ratings and you can't compare one brand to another. I ran the harder shore of the foam tires, and for rubber I ran the 2nd hardest shore in front and next softest in rear. The rubber tires I used come in 4 compounds; the hardest is simply too hard and the softest is too soft. The weather was not hot enough to use the hardest compound and the soft tires would wear in no time. Regardless, I think the shore combination of the rubber tires I used gave the best performance given the track conditions and my car setup. The front rubber tires, despite being harder, wore more than the rears. The opposite was true for the foams, where the rears wore more than the fronts.

I have not tried a spool, but I think Brad from YBSLOW made some and he and one other driver ran them at the last race in Vegas. Not having used one, I can't comment on how they work. I know the spool he made weighs a lot less than a diff, so rotating weight is reduced and this alone might help the car accelerate and decelerate faster.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:50 PM   #1204
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Hey Jspeed, it sounds like you have quite a bit of experiance with diffrent shore rating tires. Would you mind sharing your insight as to what tire works best in what track temperture range. This would help some of who have less experiance with the diffrent shore ratings and what they are best suited for.

Thanks in advance
Rubber tire selection for “GT” cars is a huge and drawn out topic, I’ll do my best to be brief so nobody’s eyes bleed.

First off, on the tracks that I’ve been fortunate to race “GT” on rubber slicks are king, threaded tires don’t have the same amount of contact patch area to develop the same amount of available traction; its simple physics that can’t be intelligently disputed.

Shore ratings & tire inserts are a lot like tire compounds and air pressure on real race car tires. In real car racing, teams adjust tire air pressure and rubber compounds to give the driver the best possible combinations.

A great “Crew Chief” considers the tire’s wear or loss of traction due to driver’s actual style of driving, ambient temperature, track surface, surface temperature of the track, track layout and race length or interval between tire changes. It’s a balancing act to make an educated guess to find that “sweet spot” in tire performance.

Some times a pit crew will vary air pressure by as little as half a pound in order to see the gains needed to have a shot at the win.

In our world of R/C racing, we can choose to emulate what the real race car teams do with shore ratings, but it really is a “thinking man’s” game.

Let’s say you go to a race and the track is very technical in design and only has a small back straight. The surface is pretty nice and it’s 75 degrees at 9am in the morning. The weather man says that the high for the day will be about 83 degrees. OK

First off, we all know that traction drops as the track surface heats up right? So off the bat, you know that a rubber shore tire that works great at 75 degrees will be a sloppy mess at 85 degrees, hence its ridicules to think the “one shore fits all’ theory hold any merit at all.

If that wasn’t enough, there are all the other variables stated earlier in this post that should be considered in tire shore selection.

Some racers “wing-it” with what they have or “chase their set-up” to find traction with the wrong shore, this practice usually results in hi-tire wear and/or never realizing the full potential of their chassis.

Other racers see what the “fast guys” are running and do the same. This can get you close, but a gifted driver can find a way to be fast with the wrong shore tire anyway.

Last weekend at “The Fort”, I ran my first qualifier with 40 shore tires. I figured that it was early in the day and the groove on the track wasn’t “up” yet. At the start of that race it only took about 1 lap for the rubber to heat up. (Remember “The Fort” is in Florida)

As the 5 minute race went on tire traction increased right up around the end of the of the qualifier, at that point I could feel traction starting to get a little loose. Right then and there, I knew I had chosen a little too soft a shore.

On my second qualifier I went with the 50 shore tires. It took them a little longer to “come in”, but they increased in traction all the way until the end of the race and never got loose.

On the third qualifier, I dropped shore to the 45s just to see if my times would improve with a better balance between the two previous runs. It was not the right move because the track’s surface temps had gone up and made my car feel like it was driving on ice.

So when Sunday rolled around, I knew the best tires to use for the track with my car and driving style was the 50 shore Ipanema, but what about the Main?

I decided to “scuff-in” a set of 55 shore tires in practice and use them in the final qualifier before the 30 minute Main. The 55 shore tires turned out to be the correct tire because they gave great traction, didn’t over-heat and allowed me to run well for the duration of the race.

If the race length would have been 60 minutes or if the track temps were higher, I would have relied on 60 shore tires instead.

If the race was in a colder environment, I would have started track testing with lower shore ratings.

Hope that all helped no more secrets for you guys today.
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Old 10-08-2008, 02:59 PM   #1205
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wow and I ran 1 and 1/2 sets of tires and I was dailed in it was cool in the morning and ran 20-10 it was hot in the afternoon and I ran 20-10 with same results, but I'll look in that crew cheif thing.
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:07 PM   #1206
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wow and I ran 1 and 1/2 sets of tires and I was dailed in it was cool in the morning and ran 20-10 it was hot in the afternoon and I ran 20-10 with same results, but I'll look in that crew cheif thing.
too complicated huh?
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Old 10-08-2008, 03:17 PM   #1207
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esp. that wedge thing
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Old 10-09-2008, 04:48 AM   #1208
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www.forgass.com[/url] - for the race report of race #2 at the fort wow what a story
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:06 AM   #1209
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Jspeed - Thanks for sharing your experiance with rubber tires. The things that you are saying do make a lot of sence.

Of course this leads to another question. When you run too soft a tire and overheat them, are they "done" and should be discarded? Or would they be okay to race another (cooler) day?



Thanks
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Old 10-09-2008, 06:13 AM   #1210
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wow and I ran 1 and 1/2 sets of tires and I was dailed in it was cool in the morning and ran 20-10 it was hot in the afternoon and I ran 20-10 with same results, but I'll look in that crew cheif thing.
when you say 20-10 is that the shore rating of your tires, that seems awfully soft.....
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Old 10-09-2008, 09:32 AM   #1211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastforward View Post
Jspeed - Thanks for sharing your experiance with rubber tires. The things that you are saying do make a lot of sence.

Of course this leads to another question. When you run too soft a tire and overheat them, are they "done" and should be discarded? Or would they be okay to race another (cooler) day?



Thanks
They should be OK, as long as you didn't melt them

Rule of thumb: You start your run, the tires "come-in", everythings great and then you start loosing grip = too soft a rubber shore.

Good luck at the races
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Old 10-09-2008, 10:21 AM   #1212
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when you say 20-10 is that the shore rating of your tires, that seems awfully soft.....

The tire we use here are PMT so the shores are diff. from other manufactures, after two full days of practice and racing they still have their tread.
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Old 10-09-2008, 01:58 PM   #1213
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Jspeed....the Ipanema tires that you were using, are the all the same front and rear...? Also, what insert were you using..? The one came with the tires..? I bet they are not pre-clue, right..?

I am very confuse right now because this IGT thing reminded me something like...190mm elelctric touring car racing that I do in WINTER only...

Oh BTW...I am not sure this is a new thing or old skill, the local fast guy (he TQ and win most of the MWS) were using Kyosho tires with FULL SIZE buggy insert that need to FORCE in (stuff it in) and he told me that is a secret trick how these tires can last 30 minutes...is that something you have tried and your thought?
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Old 10-09-2008, 02:18 PM   #1214
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I would imagine that by this time next year we will have spec tires for specGT racing, just like 10th scale electric rubber tires. There are just too many variables for the average guy to sort though and spec tires will be necessary to contain the cost of racing.

:t ire:
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Old 10-09-2008, 05:53 PM   #1215
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Here is my painted Protoform PF8-GT body that I waited weeks for:


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