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Old 11-08-2007, 11:25 AM   #91
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Well said.

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Old 11-08-2007, 01:48 PM   #92
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Well said.

Dave
Thank you dave. In Dallas, TX, we have been dealing with this elitist attitude for some time. Because of it, and some other circumstances, outdoor on-road nitro racing is almost non-existence in Dallas now.
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Old 11-08-2007, 03:46 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by JVStrat View Post
This is funny. IGT to Touring to 1/8 = Craftsman Truck to Busch to Nextel?? More like: Spec Yellow Cab to Busch to Nextel.
We race 1/10th electric, 1/10th nitro, and IGT on a smallish (120' x 60') parking lot track. The tracks would not be considered flowing but instead are technical.

I looked up one of our race results and saw that the best 1/10th nitro guy's average laps for that day were 15.8. The best IGT guy's average laps for that day were 17.1.

I don't know if the closeness is just due to the non-flowing nature of the track but spec yellow cab to Busch is not an accurate analogy.

To the guys who are suggesting low torque rules and that these are somewhat like big block street racers, that analogy hits home with me. I put a much higher end engine in my IGT than the stock engine and really didn't see much difference on a technical track.
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Old 11-09-2007, 03:40 AM   #94
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[These Rally Car rules sent by the President of RC Pro.

RC Pro “Rally” Rules

These are new classes and as such the rules are being developed. Our goal with the spec class is to find a low cost entry class to get new racers interested in the onroad side of our sport.

Kyosho Inferno GT Spec Class Rules:
*If it doesn’t say you can do it, you CAN’T DO IT.

Car Rules
1. Upgrade brakes.
2. Upgrade radio gear (servos, linkage, receiver and radio).
3. Add sway bars (front and rear)
4. Shock and diff oils can be changed.
5. Any shock position, caster position, ect., provided by the car (no drilling holes).
6. You may use a starter box, but pull-start must remain intact and operational.
7. Clutch gearing may change (14-15 first gear, 17-18-19 second gear, kyosho only).
8. Replacing threaded links with turnbuckles.
9. Kyosho V-slick in any of the 3 compounds for tires. Treaded kit tires are allowed.
Tires must be fully covered by the body. Treaded kit tires may be used. Tires must be
rubber. NO foam tires. Tire must be used as produced by the manufacturer.

Body Rules
Must be a full body (GT, sedan etc no buggy, truck, suv bodies)
1. Body must be cut on the manufacturer line.
2. You may cut the rear of the body no higher than 1 1/8th” when sitting flat on a surface.
3. Side window may be cut open for fueling.
4. Front window may be cut, but no larger than 3”x3”.
5. Rear window may be cut, but no larger than 2”x2”.
6. You may cut a hole for the glow plug ignitor.
7. Fueling access may be cut but may not connect with other holes.
8. Wing must be attached to the body and not the chassis.

These are the only changes allowed to the vehicle from the box.

Kyosho Inferno GT SS Class Rules:

Car Rules
1. Must be Kyosho GT or Kyosho buggy converted to a GT car.
2. Engine may be changed to any .28 or smaller engine.
3. Pipe may be changed to any legal pipe. Exhaust pipe must be covered by the body.
Max Stinger diameter - 8mm
Max stinger length 15mm
Must meet standard decibel level rule. The maximum sound level is 85 decibels, measured at a ninety degree angle to the side of the car from a distance of 30 feet, 3 feet above the ground, with the car at maximum throttle and at all speeds.
4. Any chassis or suspension upgrade is legal providing the vehicle maintains the proper measurements as listed below..
5. Wheelbase
Minimum 270mm - Maximum 330mm
6. Minimum weight 112oz. (7lbs) Dry (no fuel).
7. Kyosho V-slick in any of the 3 compounds for tires. Tire must be used as produced by the manufacturer.
Maximum tire diameter - 3.6 in.
Maximum width - 1.9 in.
Tires must be fully covered by the body. Treaded kit tires may be used. Tires must be rubber. NO foam tires.
8. Fuel system- Maximum capacity 125cc this includes fuel tank, filter(s) and fuel line from tank to carb.
9. Center diff - may be solid spool or diff. Vehicle may be 1 or 2 speed.

Body Rules
Must be a full body (GT, sedan etc no buggy, truck, suv bodies)
1. Body must be cut on the manufacturer line.
2. You may cut the rear of the body no higher than 1 1/8th” when sitting flat on a surface.
3. Side window may be cut open for fueling.
4. Front window may be cut, but no larger than 3”x3”.
5. Rear window may be cut, but no larger than 2”x2”.
6. You may cut a hole for the glow plug ignitor.
7. Fueling access may be cut but may not connect with other holes.
8. Wing must be attached to the body and not the chassis.

1/8 Rally Open Rules:

Car Rules
1. May be any 1/8 buggy converted to run as a GT type car.
2. May use any engine .28 or smaller.
3. Pipe may be changed to any legal pipe. Exhaust pipe must be covered by the body.
Max Stinger diameter - 8mm
Max stinger length 15mm
Must meet standard decibel level rule. The maximum sound level is 85 decibels, measured at a ninety degree angle to the side of the car from a distance of 30 feet, 3 feet above the ground, with the car at maximum throttle and at all speeds.
4. Wheelbase
Minimum 270mm - Maximum 330mm
6. Minimum weight 112oz. (7lbs) Dry (no fuel).
7. Any tire built for 1/8 rally type racing. FOAM tires OK. Tire may be slick or treaded. No sectioning, narrowing or cutting of the tire carcass allowed. Grooving or sipping is allowed. Any inner foam is allowed.

Maximum tire diameter - 3.6 in.
Maximum width - 1.9 in.

Tires must be fully covered by the body.

8. Fuel system- Maximum capacity 125cc this includes fuel tank, filter(s) and fuel line
from tank to carb.

9. Center diff - may be solid spool or diff. Vehicle may be 1 or 2 speed.

Body Rules
Must be a full body (GT, sedan etc no buggy, truck, suv bodies)
1. Body must be cut on the manufacturer line.
2. You may cut the rear of the body no higher than 1 1/8th” when sitting flat on a surface.
3. Side window may be cut open for fueling.
4. Front window may be cut, but no larger than 3”x3”.
5. Rear window may be cut, but no larger than 2”x2”.
6. You may cut a hole for the glow plug ignitor.
7. Fueling access may be cut but may not connect with other holes.
8. Wing must be attached to the body and not the chassis.

These are new classes and as such the rules are being developed. Our goal with the spec class is to find a low cost entry class to get new racers interested in the onroad side of our sport.

The GT SS class is a step up from the spec class to allow for racers who want to go faster once they feel they are ready.

The Rally Open class is for those racers who have offroad buggies and want to try onroad for a reasonable price. A typical offroad buggy will need to change tires, install a front bumper under the body to help support the body and install a full body on the car. Roughly $100 to change a buggy over.

The SS & Rally Open class may be combined but scored separately at certain events depending on number of entries.

Races may be ran on all paved tracks or a combination of paved and dirt/grass tracks.

Qualifiers may be 5 minutes or more.
Mains may be 5 minutes or more.
I still think too many classes. There should be two classes, both with the same cars. One novice class and one pro class. Both race at the same time, but with qualifying rounds separated by peoples ability. Only novices qualify to score points in the novice championship but novices also can score points in the big-boys championship. It gives novices the chance to race with the big-boys. New classes should only be added the year after if it's success.

Last edited by bozla; 11-09-2007 at 03:45 AM. Reason: Oops
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Old 11-09-2007, 04:46 AM   #95
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I only have one suggestion.


Keep

It

Simple

Stupid




Nothing RCPro does is simple. If you want it to work, don't over complicate the class right off the bat. You immediately turn off new racers if the rule list is longer than your arm, and it should never be a class aimed at "pro" or open level racers. That's what sedan and 1/8th are for.

Geesh. And we wonder why kids would rather sit down with Gran Turismo 5 and a Playstation over an R/C race car.
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Old 11-09-2007, 09:09 AM   #96
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I've been racing RC on and off a long time. Recently, I finally decided that it is the right time to go 1/8 onroad. I have everything, starter box, tire truer, radio equipement, digital telemetry, and transponder. All I need is a car and motor. I can get some good deals out there on a roller however, its the cost of the motors that has stopped me cold! $300 - $400 on a motor that may or may not last a season plus various pipes at a $80 - $100 a piece. I just couldn't deal with that kind of cost.

However, it took me less than $200 and very little time to convert my XTM buggy into an IGT look-alike with a competiive motor that costs me no more than $150.

Someone made a comment about Busch series graduating into F1... well Kinda hard to make it to F1 without an F1 budget. Most guys out there are on a Busch Series budget. Besides, I need some money left over to pay for that "real" car that is hauling my stuff to the track. Maybe I can afford 1/8 if I took the bus instead.
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Old 11-09-2007, 11:06 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by ApexSpeed View Post
I only have one suggestion.


Keep

It

Simple

Stupid




Nothing RCPro does is simple. If you want it to work, don't over complicate the class right off the bat. You immediately turn off new racers if the rule list is longer than your arm, and it should never be a class aimed at "pro" or open level racers. That's what sedan and 1/8th are for.

Geesh. And we wonder why kids would rather sit down with Gran Turismo 5 and a Playstation over an R/C race car.

Sometimes “simple” is stupid.

Would it be fair for you to race a Monte Carlo off the showroom floor against a Hendrix Motorsports Monte Carlo?

Racing “Box Stock” RTR Inferno GT cars against others equipped with Collari modified engines?

Now that's stupid.
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Old 11-09-2007, 11:50 AM   #98
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I usually don't make posts like this but for once, it has to be said. For those that don't like the IGT class, don't buy one and/or race in it. The other classes will still be available for you to run in. Oh, and don't complain about the IGT class if you are never going to race in it/with one. This is the same analogy as television or radio: if you don't like what you are seeing or hearing, change the channel or station; don't complain about it but continue to keep watching or listening. Not everyone in this hobby can afford the high-priced gear that others of us run. A cheaper, more affordable alternative being offered now may translate into a long-running racer buying better quality gear in the future.
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Old 11-09-2007, 11:55 AM   #99
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I plan on racing 1/8 scale & a Kyosho Inferno GT starting next month down here in sunny & warm Tampa Florida.

I guess I'm not a snob
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Old 11-09-2007, 12:43 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jspeed View Post
Sometimes “simple” is stupid.

Would it be fair for you to race a Monte Carlo off the showroom floor against a Hendrix Motorsports Monte Carlo?

Racing “Box Stock” RTR Inferno GT cars against others equipped with Collari modified engines?

Now that's stupid.

That's the dumbest thing I have heard yet in this thread.

You want an entry-level class to entice new racers to on-road racing, and yet you are already planning for modified Collari engines in the class? Dumb. Nice analogy, too. If showroom cars were the limits, then there shouldn't be anything else in the picture, right?

Limit the class, restrict the rules to a minimum "spec" and be done with it. The more you complicate the rules and the formula, the less inviting it is the any new racer. All you'll have are guys running second classes and no one new populating the class.



And to this point, I don't think there have been many—if any—"haters" or detractors to the actually class formula of "GT." My original point was, and I will stand by it, that if you are adding another class just to fill a void left by Outlaw or to try to bring new racers to the fold, there might be better ways to do it than with a buggy class.

That's all, nothing else. Don't get your panties in a bunch.
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:06 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Jspeed View Post
I plan on racing 1/8 scale & a Kyosho Inferno GT starting next month down here in sunny & warm Tampa Florida.

I guess I'm not a snob
Jspeed,

I did not consider you one of the snobs. In fact, you have been one of the strongest backers of the IGT class. From your posts, you seem to be a promoter, not a detractor to the hobby and racing. I plan on getting one to race in Mississippi with Bvoltz' Bass Pro Series next year if it continues.
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:09 PM   #102
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Apex Dude,

WTF are you talking about?

There are several HUNDRED Kyosho Inferno GT cars across the USA that have already aftermarket modified engines in them right now. We want them to start racing on Americas tracks.

Stock Kyosho Inferno GT cars will race in “Stock Class”
Modified Kyosho GT Cars will race in the “Super Stock Class”.
Everyone else’s chassis will race in the “Open Class”.

RC Pro Series rules for these cars are done. There may be some changes and the 2 modified classes may run at the same time during a race, they’ll just be scored differently according to their class.

The rules are simple and intended to try to offer a “level playing field”. That’s all, easy.

Last edited by Jspeed; 11-09-2007 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:14 PM   #103
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Apex,

I think you kind of missed the point. As many of us know, there are few of us that like to run a car in its stock form. Many that buy kits look for the coolest hop-ups and fastest engines to deck their cars out. There was some foresight here in the fact that with some that want to go that route, there will be a class for you. But, don't get mad when someone spends even more money on their car to go faster and win races. But, if you choose to not invest a ton of money in the car, you will have a class to run it in and still be competitive because the playing field will be level (almost like the IROC series in NASCAR back in the day). I plan on running in the box-stock spec category and save my monies for my other race cars that I race more seriously and competitively. His Collari analogy was to the point that it would not be fair for a race with a box stock car to have to compete with a guy that spend some dollars to get a better engine to run in his car (and having an unfair advantage from the start).
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:14 PM   #104
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Jspeed,

I did not consider you one of the snobs. In fact, you have been one of the strongest backers of the IGT class. From your posts, you seem to be a promoter, not a detractor to the hobby and racing. I plan on getting one to race in Mississippi with Bvoltz' Bass Pro Series next year if it continues.
That's cool, I was just kidding. The guys that "down" the Kyosho Inferno GT cars are the snobs & the haters.


Barry runs a very cool program for Bass Pro. He gets a wild amount of spectators at every race he has. If you want to have fun racing and feel like a Rock Star, you're going to love racing with Bvoltz.
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:22 PM   #105
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That's cool, I was just kidding. The guys that "down" the Kyosho Inferno GT cars are the snobs & the haters.


Barry runs a very cool program for Bass Pro. He gets a wild amount of spectators at every race he has. If you want to have fun racing and feel like a Rock Star, you're going to love racing with Bvoltz.
I already know. I raced all but two races of his Bass Pro series this past season. I drove all the way from Dallas, TX to Jackson, MS (6 hrs straight drive). I finished 4th in the nitro class points, 12th in the stock electric points, and 9th in the 1/12th scale points (on just one race). If they continue things next year, I will be in attendance again (I had a blast running with the cool folks from my former home state).
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