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Old 09-22-2013, 07:16 AM   #9151
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Originally Posted by Jazza View Post
Hi Guy's

Firstly I'm not getting any kick backs, don't even know Tony, Marcus or any of you as I'm on the other side of the world.

But all I can say after reading the many pages of this thread is.........
I WISH we had someone prepared to put in so many hours of work (Tony)
into promoting, expanding, developing, nurturing GT racing in Australia.

A lot of you attacked the one person that is trying to make this class of racing so much better for everyone, all of you. Some have started to realise that was all Tony is trying to achieve.

Some of the things proposed may not quite work out & may need tweaking, fine tuning. But doesn't all forms of rules & procedures.

Give it a go, what doesn't work out.....fix it, change it, add or subtract what's needed to get it to work.

Come on give the guy some help, ideas but not negativity & attacks.
And Tony.......if they won't help you there in the US, ya more than welcome to come & live in the land down under.

Cheers Daz
Thanks Daz
From my research I came to quickly realize you and your "mates" there have a decent size market for the RC industry, just some lack of support.

I have sold a few sets of my LRP products to you fellas and had lengthy conversations with a few of your racers. The shipping cost to you is ridiculous, but you guys were just happy to get the parts.

LOL, moving Down under would be Awesome. You guys are one of the most "FREE" countries in the world. Being a Professional Truck driver, I understand Australia is in high demand for drivers. Hmm, it has crossed my mind but don't think I can convince the wife.

One of the reasons I named it INTERNATIONAL GT8 FEDERATION, is to be that International. If your club, track or hobby would like to be affiliated with IGT8F, Please contact me. Director@IGT8F.COM

Being affiliated to me simple means we have same common interest and goals. To Promote RC Racing particularly On-Road! No one is being forced to follow IGT8F class rules or otherwise. Same reason all the races in the Pre Qualifier list, states at the bottom follow Track and Directors Rules.

Right from the beginning IGT8F offers all on road tracks, shops, companies and manufacturers basically, FREE advertising with nothing up front to them. The typical call to a person(from list) usually goes like this, I explain the organization the plans, ideas and vision... Then they immediately ask Ok, what do you WANT to be affiliated.

My answer is always Nothing right now, IGT8F simply wants your permission to use your logos, images and etc. for promotional materials to help grow exposure to our goal. But we will require you to offer support to your customers(you the racers) that support your products and if you want to be involved further we can discuss options.

You know it's hilarious because VP-PRO USA didn't have a remote clue their tires were going to be the Spec tires till 2 weeks ago. I had emailed them and never got a response, I then called and ask if they had received the email. The person on the phone was like yes, I was about to response. But what do you want from us, I said same thing Nothing, just permission to say your tires will be the Spec tires for IGT8F. But I would like to know if you have enough in stock right now to supply your customers and your dealers.

A few days later it was brought to my attention that the VP-PRO tires were the highest priced in the current market, so I email them to address the issue brought to my attention. He says what price do they need to be, my response was I have no idea, I'm not your dealer and have no clue what your cost is or what margins you can work with. But please help the racers. He emailed me the following day and gave me the new dealers and new street prices, along with a dealer application.

I emailed him said, Thank you for the new prices I'm sure everyone will be happy with them. (I even worked out a SPECIAL Limited Time Deal for you the racers).. But continued, I'm not interested in being a dealer, I rather direct IGT8F affiliates to you directly, so you can offer them your full line of products. Just so you have a small insight.

It's about networking and getting everyone INVOLVED in some small or big fashion, but involved. Truly I get no kick backs, money, etc., the site the hosting, my time making fliers, organizing races.. everything I have paid for out of my own pocket. Even the Winter Series@ GulfCoast Raceway I'm just about to start, the entry fee is $10 a class. Shop owner asked how much I wanted I said nothing, let's just get on road racing going again. Put the money back into (your, our) track for the racers.

The small group of guys that know me, really know me will testify to my character. I work all the time, a ton of hours, I'm loyal to my family and friends, reliable, always willing to help and lead need be, but most importantly Honest and Truthful.
They might say LUNATIC at times, but that's what makes me fun to be around.

Sorry for the story, but had that building up for a while.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:29 AM   #9152
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Happy Birthday Tony and great job on getting this all going and thank you for the effort you have put into this....

I hope you have a great day and rest assured .... I believe you have given this class of RC racing the firm foothold it needs and deserves.

I look foreword to the day I meet and race with you .... as I do many people on here and in GT...

BM

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The "SPORTSMAN" Class is your(the racers, and other parties) to manage and set as you please. Only reason it's on my site was out of respect for what was requested of me. The truth be told not many local or national events currently have the numbers to support an Open & Sportsman class.

Personally if I were a (prospect) willing to Pony up to a Sportsman class car which is the same as Open from my point if view, based on equipment. I won't race Sportsman I would want to race Open. To get better quicker, know exactly were I stood in the pack, and push me to get better.

Again my view from experience. I started racing at the age of 12 on road Oval, times were different, technology and all and choices were very limited on everything. I was put in with everyone else, ya I sucked(probably still do), but it made me better for it, I practiced more not wanting to be in last. Even if I was one spot above the last guy I felt like a WINNER. I'm not the type person to be told your not good enough, so your race with these other guys.

This point of view is based on equipment, so don't get it twisted. To me there is no real difference between Sportsman and Open. Even if you say these X number of motors, X number of tires, restrictor on carb. Anyway you cut it you can race that exact same car in Open.

My number is always good and I always answer or get back fairly quick. Email or phone.
Today is not a good day for this, it's my Birthday.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:42 AM   #9153
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This is where I disagree with you tony
You have to get something back. These are big companies and with your promotion they will be exposed to more people and will sell more too. I advise you get something out of this. You have to be paid for your hardwork. Please heed my advise. I am not saying this just for your benefit, it is also for us because one day you will get tired doing this without being compensated. Just look at jbrl, jimmy is promoting it and has been successful because he gets something out of it. I have seen so many people get burned out from this hobby bec they were not compensated for thier work.
Ask 10 tires, 2 motors whatever they can give and you can sell it or raffle off or whatever but you need them to be committed to your program too . Just my opinion.
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:58 AM   #9154
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I find all this very promising. I read constructive opinion exchanges and it looks like GT8 racing is going to grow even faster than it already is. It looks like a challenge but life is full of challenges isn't it... I would like to express some of my opinions on both strategic and technical sides.
On a strategic side I believe that on mid-long term experienced racers should not run this class because tuning and setup experience-ability makes too much of a difference. But I also believe that experienced racers should be available to help out the new comers to make sure their car can function properly. For example a tutoring program could be elaborated where each new comer would have an experienced racer helping him out on race day. I know that it makes a huge difference and I have seen a lot of new comers welcoming that kind of help.
On a technical note, I noticed that there were big differences in caracteristics between cars in their "stock" form. Here are a few examples:

-gearing: the Kyosho and DM1 are geared very tall out of the box and the OFNA GT/V2 is geared very short.
The consequence of that is that with the same 5 port engine the IGT and DM1 will be slow out of corners but will be super fast in sweeper sections and straights, large tracks. The OFNA GTV2 will have mucho punch out of the corners but will be slower on sweeper sections and straights, advantaged in very short tracks.
- durability: the kyosho stock bevel gears don't last and OFNA DM1 and GTV2 will last.

A way of making things even between these different cars using same engine and tires would be to hand out or email a short document with recommendations.
For example advising kyosho owners to get the straight gears for the bulkheads as well as the 3 shoe flywheel and the OFNA GTV2 owners to use the OFNA DM1 clutchbell with the bigger pinions... It would also be cool to offer those new comers help from an experienced racer to assist installing the proper items in the car.
Joe. Correction.. You must be referring to the old style 2 speed that was originally in the IGT1 and IGT2... That tranny was a poor design. 2 yrs ago the race spec came out with a very improved EVOLVA based design shoe type that is very durable. I have upgraded all my 3 IGT's with ... And the gearing is now similar to the OFNA GTV2... The playing spec field is a lot closer in long chassis world. ...
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:22 AM   #9155
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HAPPY BDAY TONY !!! And I commend you for your efforts so far with gt8 ! You have a great idea to get the kids out of the house and on the tracks. That can ONLY BUILD GT8 !! And that's your vision and ours too... But let's do the math ... Daddy buys his son a Race Spec Gt2 Kyosho RTR with a fuel bottle a glow igniter and fuel. He's now at $600... I really think dad might be turned off nowing that he has to kick out another $300 to upgrade to a reds basic motor with pipe to be able to get on a track and run spec. Your looking at $1000 off jump for his son to be race ready. Not to mention the crappy steering servo that the car comes with also that has to be done ASAP ... Why not let him run spec with that K.25 pullstart that it comes with. It's a real descent motor capable of 50mph with a good tune. I just broke one in for my buddy last week ... I feel that is really how you will get the class growing again..and keep cost down to the floor... $600 is already a lot of cash in this fu**** up economy... I own a used car lot and I know how it is .. I see credit scores dropping daily... . Don't forget this is the car THAT INVENTED THE CLASS BACK IN 2006 ... My .02cents
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:25 AM   #9156
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This is where I disagree with you tony
You have to get something back. These are big companies and with your promotion they will be exposed to more people and will sell more too. I advise you get something out of this. You have to be paid for your hardwork. Please heed my advise. I am not saying this just for your benefit, it is also for us because one day you will get tired doing this without being compensated. Just look at jbrl, jimmy is promoting it and has been successful because he gets something out of it. I have seen so many people get burned out from this hobby bec they were not compensated for thier work.
Ask 10 tires, 2 motors whatever they can give and you can sell it or raffle off or whatever but you need them to be committed to your program too . Just my opinion.
Thank Doc,
But in all honesty I will tell you and everyone now what I been saying, " I just want to "RACE"!!

From experience having to close my tracks and shop, was the worst feeling in the world. I took a 8yr break from RC entirely after closing.

One might think shop and track owners make a allot of money, I will tell you first hand they don't. They work the hardest to keep you the customers happy, it's a struggle everyday. It's only gotten harder now with everything online. So if my site and networking helps your local track and shop owners be more successful, I'm all in. If what I created helps to grow the RC industry so more people get involved and is around for my daughter(5yrs) and son(4months) to enjoy, then I have accomplished my goal and vision.

That's one of the reasons for the Federation part of the name, a united front for the same cause.

I came back to RC because I LOVE IT, plain and simple. To only see the same crap that was going on when I was in business. Then fell in love with GT an unsanctioned class or group. To wait around 3yrs to see what would happen and nothing, no one or no existing organization stepped up to guide us.

So I started to plan.
You can verify I purchased IGT8F is January of 2013. Bought on the road on my cell phone in the middle between Florida and Mississippi. Coming back with Marcus from the Panamerica GT Race in Homestead, FL. Doug and the Homestead Crew deserve all the credit their where guys there from Puerto Rico, New York, Argentina, Brazil, Texas, every where. It's was AAWESOME, even with the weather issues.

I swear after that race I was more pumped up and excited about this Class GT then ever before. I knew I had to help keep it united, help it grow and help spread this kind of joy with the others. In all that by nature having to help the entire RC industry.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:48 AM   #9157
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HAPPY BDAY TONY !!! And I commend you for your efforts so far with gt8 ! You have a great idea to get the kids out of the house and on the tracks. That can ONLY BUILD GT8 !! And that's your vision and ours too... But let's do the math ... Daddy buys his son a Race Spec Gt2 Kyosho RTR with a fuel bottle a glow igniter and fuel. He's now at $600... I really think dad might be turned off nowing that he has to kick out another $300 to upgrade to a reds basic motor with pipe to be able to get on a track and run spec. Your looking at $1000 off jump for his son to be race ready. Not to mention the crappy steering servo that the car comes with also that has to be done ASAP ... Why not let him run spec with that K.25 pullstart that it comes with. It's a real descent motor capable of 50mph with a good tune. I just broke one in for my buddy last week ... I feel that is really how you will get the class growing again..and keep cost down to the floor... $600 is already a lot of cash in this fu**** up economy... I own a used car lot and I know how it is .. I see credit scores dropping daily... . Don't forget this is the car THAT INVENTED THE CLASS BACK IN 2006 ... My .02cents
I see your point of view believe me I do.

But you can also pick up an old Long Chassis used pretty cheap, for the simple fact they are not competitive against the Short.
Motor package deal in final stages price point below $300, Tire package deal for 2 complete sets(1ultra soft, 1soft) done.

If you don't think that if growing this "SPEC" Class won't help get more manufactures attention to building cars to fit and then have them compete against each other on price your wrong. This only helps you as the CUSTOMER. Plus, It's already happening that's why there's 15+pages of discussion.

That's why things are the way they are they(manufactures) have no guidelines nothing structured to promote or even put GT on their radar to invest money or time in.

IGT8F supports and will countinue to support what has already been built and established. In design countinue to promote any and all businesses in the RC industry. Through racing.

Thanks for the B day wishes.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:53 AM   #9158
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BTW,
most of you might think my inbox, or email is exploding with people submitting rules for "Sportsman", advice, help, support or hatred. From people with interest in getting involved in any form or fashion.

I have received not ONE submission for "Sportsman" Rules.

Mark has emailed me with great advice for the DM car, he's area of expertise. We are working on tweaking somethings.

A handful of others with concerns of certain issues, that might arise. Most of if not all those issues or concerns, were already planned ahead for.

This lack of involvement is only proof, of the state we are in and will countinue to be in. But I'm the Bad guy here...

It only helps me to move forward and ahead.

You can reach me at: DIRECTOR@IGT8F.COM

Rules time frame was one issue concern, so here it is.

Submission for IGT8F "SPORTSMAN" Class Rules deadline is October 1st 2013.

All Posted Rules, will be enforced October through October each year.

Submissions or Discussion for Rule Changes are between August - September.

If an Extreme reason for a Rule change is needed, it will be handled swiftly depending on after effects of such change.

Every Racer has a voice and opinion, it's your RIGHT as a supporter of the RC industry.

Director@IGT8F.COM

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Old 09-22-2013, 10:11 AM   #9159
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Originally Posted by Yb2fast View Post
Joe. Correction.. You must be referring to the old style 2 speed that was originally in the IGT1 and IGT2... That tranny was a poor design. 2 yrs ago the race spec came out with a very improved EVOLVA based design shoe type that is very durable. I have upgraded all my 3 IGT's with ... And the gearing is now similar to the OFNA GTV2... The playing spec field is a lot closer in long chassis world. ...
Hi! The longevity of the 2 speed in the IGT2 race spec is exceptional, no doubt. Which is why i did not mention it? I was referring to the bevel gears (ring-pinion) that are in the bulkheads. It's strongly recommended to get the straight cut ones. As for the flywheel the IGT2 came with 2shoe flywheel until the race spec came out so I assume there are still non upgraded IGT2 cars out there with the 2 shoe flywheel.
About the gearing here are some numbers:
- If I'm not mistaken the kyosho race spec comes stock with 15-18 pinions on the clutchbell, 46-43 spur gears and 43-13 pinion/ring.
Ratio 1st gear= 46/15*3.31= 10.15
Ratio 2nd gear= 43/18*3.31= 7.91

- OFNA GTV2 (if I'm not mistaken it's same stock ratio as the teamC short chassis)
Ratio 1st gear= 46/16*4.3= 12.36
Ratio 2nd gear= 42/20*4.3= 9.03

So the OFNA GTV2 ratio in first gear is 2.21 shorter than the kyosho. The OFNA GTV2 is 1.12 shorter than the kyosho. So the kyosho gearing is way taller than the OFNA GTV2.

Edit: i think the evolva 2 speed was in the IGT2 before even the race spec came out.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:45 AM   #9160
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Hi! The longevity of the 2 speed in the IGT2 race spec is exceptional, no doubt. Which is why i did not mention it? I was referring to the bevel gears (ring-pinion) that are in the bulkheads. It's strongly recommended to get the straight cut ones. As for the flywheel the IGT2 came with 2shoe flywheel until the race spec came out so I assume there are still non upgraded IGT2 cars out there with the 2 shoe flywheel.
About the gearing here are some numbers:
- If I'm not mistaken the kyosho race spec comes stock with 15-18 pinions on the clutchbell, 46-43 spur gears and 43-13 pinion/ring.
Ratio 1st gear= 46/15*3.31= 10.15
Ratio 2nd gear= 43/18*3.31= 7.91

- OFNA GTV2 (if I'm not mistaken it's same stock ratio as the teamC short chassis)
Ratio 1st gear= 46/16*4.3= 12.36
Ratio 2nd gear= 42/20*4.3= 9.03

So the OFNA GTV2 ratio in first gear is 2.21 shorter than the kyosho. The OFNA GTV2 is 1.12 shorter than the kyosho. So the kyosho gearing is way taller than the OFNA GTV2.

Edit: i think the evolva 2 speed was in the IGT2 before even the race spec came out.
Thanks for the details on gearing Joe...but actually the ring and pinion in the 1st gen GT1 is of a blk metal alloy with a different cut and is alot more durable than whats in the GT2 1st gen (2008) and the current race spec...this info was given to me by the owner of www.infernosonly.com and I have since verified that as correct as i have all the IGT versions including the current race spec ( I own 4 IGT's lol) ...And no the Evola 2 speed was never in any IGT...but the race spec is similar in design (shoe type).. The Ovna/teamc GTv2 is definately a more modern car than the race spec IGT2 as that car has CVd's to start with vs dogbones in the Kyosho...
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:54 AM   #9161
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I see your point of view believe me I do.

But you can also pick up an old Long Chassis used pretty cheap, for the simple fact they are not competitive against the Short.
Motor package deal in final stages price point below $300, Tire package deal for 2 complete sets(1ultra soft, 1soft) done.

If you don't think that if growing this "SPEC" Class won't help get more manufactures attention to building cars to fit and then have them compete against each other on price your wrong. This only helps you as the CUSTOMER. Plus, It's already happening that's why there's 15+pages of discussion.

That's why things are the way they are they(manufactures) have no guidelines nothing structured to promote or even put GT on their radar to invest money or time in.

IGT8F supports and will countinue to support what has already been built and established. In design countinue to promote any and all businesses in the RC industry. Through racing.

Thanks for the B day wishes.
Very true Tony...I picked my current race spec as a new roller chassis for $160 off ebay from a reputable Hobby Ebay store (dollar Hobbyz)...so you are correct and if you go that route then install a Reds motor pkg you will have a spec car for $600 with descent savox servos......I see the new 2 speeds on ebay for as low as $25 now....lol...Its $75 new from big K !
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:23 AM   #9162
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I'm confused. Is the "Spec" class being changed to "Sportsman" now?

As Desoto stated, keep it simple and only limit things that can easily be tech'ed.
  • Pull start motors only ($275 limit)
  • Limit which bodies can be used. (more than one brand)
  • Spec tire (only treaded)
  • Weight Limit (a bit heavier than Open class)
  • Offroad buggy 3 - 4 shoe clutch type system
I don't agree with this 1:7 scale chassis only. I think increasing the weight limit will help slow the car down a bit.
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Old 09-23-2013, 06:57 AM   #9163
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I'm confused. Is the "Spec" class being changed to "Sportsman" now?

As Desoto stated, keep it simple and only limit things that can easily be tech'ed.
  • Pull start motors only ($275 limit)
  • Limit which bodies can be used. (more than one brand)
  • Spec tire (only treaded)
  • Weight Limit (a bit heavier than Open class)
  • Offroad buggy 3 - 4 shoe clutch type system
I don't agree with this 1:7 scale chassis only. I think increasing the weight limit will help slow the car down a bit.


SPEC class is not changing, sportsman is something entirely different. The official rules for sportsman are TBA if it even happens at all, deadline for sportsman rules is OCT 1st.

There is no 1:7 scale chassis rule only, it is long wheelbase only.
The weight limit is only 200g heavier than open which really is what they weigh anyway, you will not have to add any weight to meet this.
Pull start motors? that would be chaos!! Never gonna happen.
There are multiple types of bodies available from TeamC , OFNA,Kyosho and I have some exclusive ones (limited supply).More choices than you have for SWB cars!

What is simpler to tech? wheels, engine and weight? Or tires, venturi, fuel capacity, weight, ports and engine size?

The rules are already in ink and done for the most part on SPEC. So please realize that its not going to change. Now the discussion for sportsman is open still and from what i read Tony is waiting on Desoto to come up with the rules for that class. I would direct your sportsman questions directly to Desoto instead of Tony as it is still very much in the air!
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:22 AM   #9164
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Great thread. I hope with all the classes we have the turnout. Tony thanks for stepping up and putting your neck out ..many will try to cut your head off but stand by your product (IGTF) and let it speak for itself. Quality events racer support will make all the negativity disappear. Some of the best GT racers in the country have cosigned your efforts so your already ahead of the curve. I'm definitely gonna make a trip to Texas next year see if I can get my Pro card....
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:44 AM   #9165
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SPEC class is not changing, sportsman is something entirely different. The official rules for sportsman are TBA if it even happens at all, deadline for sportsman rules is OCT 1st.

There is no 1:7 scale chassis rule only, it is long wheelbase only.
Just so I'm clear. There's Open, Spec and Sportsman? If so, this will fragment the class even more.

I was under the impression that long wheel base chassis falls under 1:7 scale. Ex: The long chassis for DM-1 Spec is the same part number as the DM1-Pro chassis, which is 1:7 scale. Sorry if I'm mistaken.
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