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Old 09-20-2013, 06:46 PM   #9106
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"In addition, you promote a so called 'SPEC' class that just so happens to REQUIRE all the brands that you are sponsored by?"

What a Quincidence ! could there be a kick back ? why not any 5 port ? novarossi makes a 5 port ? Sorry Tony no offence does sound fishy.......... my DM1 "Spec" weight 3700 grams with the short chassis LMAO. So the way the rules are I have to run open with my set up............HUMMM Okay
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:50 PM   #9107
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Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
?........... This class is not for the advanced racer, not for Paolo, not for Spooky ,not for Tony and not for me!
Is the SPEC class for anyone or designed for beginners?
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:53 PM   #9108
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Wow so Team C and Reds will rule spec... What a bold statement, thank you for clarifying your intent.

I'm pretty sure if you went to some of the tire companies they would get something special for a spec tire. Then you throw Serpent and Novarossi under the bus. Are you that mad that one of the big three in on road racing is winning at on road racing? You know how Serpent gets on top? XRay? Mugen? They support their drivers and build a even stronger customer base. They listen to all feedback and make the right changes. They also have the backing by the top drivers in the country that work hand in hand with the best engineers. Serpent has rightfully earned its place on top of GT powered by Novarossi. Like mentioned above if you have a problem with that you have every chance to create your own products and drive against the best.

Don't bs us look under your name at the list of sponsors, ta da! There's your spec class. Bold move gents I'm not impressed.
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:55 PM   #9109
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Originally Posted by desotoracing View Post
You are missing the point. A spec class should not have brand requirements. It doesn't matter who's or what brand. Brands should not be in the rules. We need more racers not less. You are excluding people, not opening the door to people. That is bad for GT.

If you say Spec is:

long wheelbase
6mm restrictor (or some other simple engine rule)
37xx weight
etc.

That's fine. Simple to tech and everyone is allowed to participate.

BTW I'm not against the spec tire idea as long as the track is allowed to choose the tire for the event. That way tire manufacturers are allowed to play. Like electric racing.
So again publicly now, What rules would everyone like to be posted and promoted for your "Sportsman" Class.

Let me make this CRYSTAL CLEAR.. IGT8F "SPEC" is not getting Trashed. It is as posted.

The races and racers will determine it's future.
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:01 PM   #9110
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Originally Posted by Aught-Six View Post
Your intent just went from improving the GT world to selling products. You just lost interest. If these were quality products you wouldn't have to eliminate the Novas and Snakes for them to make an impact. You are creating a monopoly to fight Serpent and Nova. You just said Monopoly stunts growth. If you want to knock the snake and Nova down, put out a better product! And no I'm not a sponsored driver
HUH??? If that made you lose interest then you were already looking for a way out. You are not competing with the Serpent if you are not in the same class. FYI the SPEC class is run at the same event as the open class so you end up with all of the products at the same event secondly, its not my gig so if you lose interest in me it doesnt matter i dont make the rules, RCShox products are not allowed in the SPEC class either so how is it that i am making money? The spec car is not on my website neither or REDS engines, so what are you basing that assumption on? There are three classes and Serpent/Alpha/NOVA rule open and pro, is it so bad that one out of 3 classes is not dominated by that combo? REALLY? I agree with what is being done and appreciate all of the work Tony has been doing over the past 8mths putting this together, If you think that Money is not involved on both ends then you sir a mistaken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desotoracing View Post
You are missing the point. A spec class should not have brand requirements. It doesn't matter who's or what brand. Brands should not be in the rules. We need more racers not less. You are excluding people, not opening the door to people. That is bad for GT.

If you say Spec is:

long wheelbase
6mm restrictor (or some other simple engine rule)
37xx weight
etc.

That's fine. Simple to tech and everyone is allowed to participate.

BTW I'm not against the spec tire idea as long as the track is allowed to choose the tire for the event. That way tire manufacturers are allowed to play. Like electric racing.
Ok ya know i can see where you are coming from but how is it that now everyone wants to make an opinion on this after Tony comes up with the rules? Why have you not promoted or enforced your sportsman class until today? The ideas that you are coming up with are not SPEC . Here is a question for you if none of this were to happen would homestead be the same as it was last year? probably so, it was a great event and will be great this year regardless of how this plays out. My point is that if you guys were serious about starting something it should have been done months ago. Over this past year nothing has been done for organization by anyone including ROAR but the second someone steps up to put together what he believes is the right way NOW you want to tear it down. a week ago you guys were completely sold on the idea and for some strange reason even though nothing on Tony's end has changed over the last 3 days you guys completely flipped to the other side Tony even has the rules that you guys sent him to use for the open class, that seems strange to me.Everyone has valid points but guess what ? Tony is the one that has been on the grind making this stuff happen and in my opinion you should at the very least let him run it his way with no complications or disrespect, his honest intentions are to help out the class.
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:17 PM   #9111
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Originally Posted by desotoracing View Post
+1

Tony/Marcus: How can you claim to be trying to grow GT when right off the bat you propose a new class that outlaws most racer's existing equipment and requires them to buy a new engine, pipe, chassis...? In addition, you promote a so called 'SPEC' class that just so happens to REQUIRE all the brands that you are sponsored by?

Rules should not contain brand references. Rules should be length, width, height, weight, etc. Generic measurements that all/any manufacturers can then conform to and track people can measure during tech.
Would you like me post the emails exchanged. I have been completely open and honest about everything said, discussed and now my intentions are being bashed.

The same way your employee called me to discuss the topics, my phone and email were always available to discuss this with you or anyone directly. I have no hard feelings, grudge or alternative motives.

You decide what you want promoted! I will promote what I decide to promote.
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:18 PM   #9112
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Originally Posted by DK McGee View Post
"In addition, you promote a so called 'SPEC' class that just so happens to REQUIRE all the brands that you are sponsored by?"

What a Quincidence ! could there be a kick back ? why not any 5 port ? novarossi makes a 5 port ? Sorry Tony no offence does sound fishy.......... my DM1 "Spec" weight 3700 grams with the short chassis LMAO. So the way the rules are I have to run open with my set up............HUMMM Okay
I explained why the Novarossi is not being used and its simply because of the break in. The weight number was put out to be heavier than the open weight and thats it no other reason except to attempt to level the playing field between the IGT DM and TeamC

Quote:
Originally Posted by burgboyz View Post
Is the SPEC class for anyone or designed for beginners?
Anyone can run it but its designed for the beginners/newbies

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerribleTy View Post
Wow so Team C and Reds will rule spec... What a bold statement, thank you for clarifying your intent.

I'm pretty sure if you went to some of the tire companies they would get something special for a spec tire. Then you throw Serpent and Novarossi under the bus. Are you that mad that one of the big three in on road racing is winning at on road racing? You know how Serpent gets on top? XRay? Mugen? They support their drivers and build a even stronger customer base. They listen to all feedback and make the right changes. They also have the backing by the top drivers in the country that work hand in hand with the best engineers. Serpent has rightfully earned its place on top of GT powered by Novarossi. Like mentioned above if you have a problem with that you have every chance to create your own products and drive against the best.

Don't bs us look under your name at the list of sponsors, ta da! There's your spec class. Bold move gents I'm not impressed.
In that same statement i also said that Serpent rules the open class, that doesnt count? Yes other mfg were contacted and to get a custom tire wheel combo cost about 10k, you want to invest? it was much better to find and existing company that had limited shores and were actually good enough, VP fit that mold perfectly and they are eager to get in the market.I wonder who would get a kickback from Novarossi if that engine was used? thats ok though?

The class was not really designed to impress you, so i guess that worked. nobody is forcing you to join anything buy anything or race anything if you do not like the rules simply do not run the class not a big deal.

Arent you 100% nova and Serpent? is that why you want the nova to be used instead? you see how that works, someone will always be in the wrong but like i said before you have done zero legwork in this so your opinion is just an opinion, valued yes but just an opinion. All of the options were weighed in, the kits are 100.00 cheaper and come with a body, engines are super easy to break in and cheap, tires are simple and only two choices.
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:22 PM   #9113
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See details NOVN21-5T

N21-5 Engine .21 5 Port Turbo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retail price: $389.00
Our price: $209.00 save 46%


whats wrong with mota ? how much is the reds ?
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:26 PM   #9114
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Post IGT8F

I have read the Spec rules that have been written and have not jumped to any quick conclusions, in fact I have considered not responding at all because it may look like my goal is to chastise and that is far from being true. I feel I have enough experience to have a fair grasp on the GT8 class yet I am sure many others are more qualified. Since this is a discussion, I also would like to share my thoughts after a few questions.

The Spec rules that are written, are these to be enforced at your local tracks in Texas or the entire GT8 community to apply?

I have another question I would like to ask about Spec. Is the goal in these rules to keep cost down for those who cannot afford the full cost of true competitive Open racing or just to make a Very Even class or is there another reason?

What was so wrong with the Spec rules we had in the past? I always thought that they just needed to be “TweeKed” why the massive change?

I have much to say but do not want to make any assumptions on your motives especially with the amount of labor you have put in.

The reason I don’t PM these questions is I would dislike it very much if in the future one of us was vague or unclear since our common goal is to grow the GT8 class.

Thanks ahead of time for answering a few of my questions.


.
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:29 PM   #9115
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MOTOR, PIPE, MANIFOLD, FUEL TANK & CLUTCH:

1. ONLY MOTOR ALLOWED is the REDS-RACING-USA “R5″ BASIC or Classic. (R5C, R5T NOT ALLOWED)

2. ONLY PIPE ALLOWED is the REDS-RACING-USA EFRA “2069″. [#KM210002 SET]

3. ONLY MANIFOLD ALLOWED is the REDS-RACING-USA “M” Medium. [#KM210002 SET]

4. FUEL TANK MAXIMUM CAPACITY of 150cc.

5. ONLY CLUTCHS ALLOWED are STOCK/TRADITIONAL Off Road style 3 or 4 shoe NON ADJUSTABLE.

6. ONLY CARBON or ALUMINUM SHOES ALLOWED.

7. ONLY FIXED RATED CLUTCH SPRINGS ALLOWED.

8. REQUIRED TO RUN A INS~BOX.

• (ADJUSTABLE, Coaxial Push Type (CENTEX) NOT ALLOWED)

TIRES & WHEELS:

1. ONLY TIRES and WHEELS ALLOWED are VP-PRO PreMounted “GT on road Rubber Tires” [#GT802G-RB-SF, GT802G-RW-SF "SuperSoft" or #GT802G-RB-UF, GT802G-RW-UF "Soft"]

I LOVE ALL THE DISCUSSION SO FAR FROM EVERYONE !! AND I JUST READ THE RULES ON SPEC AND POSTED JUST A SECTION OF IT ABOVE...ONLY THING I WOULD CHANGE IS ONLY ALLOWING A REDS R5 BASIC (HOW MUCH $$$ MARCUS) AND THE USE OF VP PRO TIRES EXCLUSIVELY.....THERE IS ALSO NO REAL MENTION ON SERVOS USAGE, FOR EXAMPLE IF YOU PURCHASE A RTR GT2 RACE SPEC KIT FROM KYOSHO, THE OEM SERVOS ARE PURE JUNK AND WONT EVEN KEEP THE CAR STRAIGHT...LOL...AND KYOSHO REALLY DOESNT SELL UPGRADED SERVOS UNLESS YOU BUY KO PROPO $$$$. SO CAN SERVOS BE UPGRADED USING NONE OEM BRANDS ? I HAVE A GT2 RACE SPEC WITH A $140.00 6 PORT DYNAMITE BUGGY MOTOR (MACH .21) WITH OEM CLUTCH AND UPGRADED SERVOS AND I CONVERTED THE BRAKES FROM DUAL (JUNK)TO THE SINGLE SP KYOSHO PAD AND ROTOR WHICH IS AWESOME, RUNNING ALPHA MEDIUM SHORES...(NOT SOFT OR SUPER SOFT)...I BELIEVE MY CAR IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF A "SPEC CAR", STOCK SUSPENSION, DIFFS ETC....AND MOST OF ALL WAS A VERY INEXPENSIVE TO BUILD. : ) IT STARTED LIFE AS A NEW ROLLER FOR $160 OFF AN EBAY HOBBY STORE (DOLLAR HOBBYZ)..TOTAL BUILD WITH 2 SPEED, MOTOR, WHEELS, SERVOS, WAS $500 ALL NEW ! I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR YALL INPUT ON THIS ...
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:34 PM   #9116
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I read this in a RC magazine some time ago and went back and found it. I thought this would be a good time to share this while the Spec issue was in debate.


Spec classes are often chastised by dedicated racers for the same basic reasons; lack of equipment diversity, difficulty in policing rules, and the one that I find the most confusinghalted progression. Those who dislike spec racing cite the restrictions on new products as preventing the cars from getting faster, but fail to address the separation of progress from spending money. Rather than purchasing a new component in order to gain an advantage, spec classes are won with driving skill and tuning prowess, gains that can be found by practicing rather than purchasing. Shouldn’t that be the bigger reward?


This isn’t a debate about spec classes, but simply identifying where the spirit of where RC racing really lies: it’s not in your car you’re driving, the box of soft compound tires you plan to burn through that weekend, or the new engine that you can’t wait to buy. If you knock three-tenths of a second off of your best lap of the night because you moved your shocks out one hole on the rear arms and it allowed you to carry more speed around the sweeper, you’re still racing. If you improve on your qualifying position by making smart moves in traffic to pick up a few spots by the end of the main event, you’re racing. And if you continue to refine your car control by logging lap after lap of practice in search of more consistency, by definition you are racing an RC car.
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Old 09-20-2013, 07:47 PM   #9117
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Originally Posted by desotoracing View Post
+1

Tony/Marcus: How can you claim to be trying to grow GT when right off the bat you propose a new class that outlaws most racer's existing equipment and requires them to buy a new engine, pipe, chassis...? In addition, you promote a so called 'SPEC' class that just so happens to REQUIRE all the brands that you are sponsored by?

Rules should not contain brand references. Rules should be length, width, height, weight, etc. Generic measurements that all/any manufacturers can then conform to and track people can measure during tech.
Sums up most everything.


Could not be said better BRAVO !!





Just a fyi I do not run a serpent nor am I sponsored by Desoto Racing I Have Novarossi / IDM / & OS engines. Without other brands RC would have no growth!!!!!!!!!!!






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Old 09-20-2013, 07:50 PM   #9118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *1speedy View Post
I read this in a RC magazine some time ago and went back and found it. I thought this would be a good time to share this while the Spec issue was in debate.


Spec classes are often chastised by dedicated racers for the same basic reasons; lack of equipment diversity, difficulty in policing rules, and the one that I find the most confusinghalted progression. Those who dislike spec racing cite the restrictions on new products as preventing the cars from getting faster, but fail to address the separation of progress from spending money. Rather than purchasing a new component in order to gain an advantage, spec classes are won with driving skill and tuning prowess, gains that can be found by practicing rather than purchasing. Shouldn’t that be the bigger reward?


This isn’t a debate about spec classes, but simply identifying where the spirit of where RC racing really lies: it’s not in your car you’re driving, the box of soft compound tires you plan to burn through that weekend, or the new engine that you can’t wait to buy. If you knock three-tenths of a second off of your best lap of the night because you moved your shocks out one hole on the rear arms and it allowed you to carry more speed around the sweeper, you’re still racing. If you improve on your qualifying position by making smart moves in traffic to pick up a few spots by the end of the main event, you’re racing. And if you continue to refine your car control by logging lap after lap of practice in search of more consistency, by definition you are racing an RC car.
+1...GREAT ARTICLE...!
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:07 PM   #9119
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Originally Posted by DK McGee View Post
See details NOVN21-5T

N21-5 Engine .21 5 Port Turbo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retail price: $389.00
Our price: $209.00 save 46%


whats wrong with mota ? how much is the reds ?
First... Sorry for the delay to your questions, I'm still working my real job(truck driver) and in the middle of the road with slow connection.

With your current car and gear you would continue to race in the "OPEN" class you have the past year.
If you choose to race "SPEC" you just follow Spec rules.

One your motor question there's nothing wrong any other brand motor. The Reds R5 Basic not (R5C or R5T). Was chosen because it's very easy to break in, it holds a tune well and is well made.

In its current street price you could get the Motor, pipe and header for around $300-$325. Reds from the beginning offered to sell the SPEC PACKAGE deal for less then that to its customers. Details will be announced soon.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:29 PM   #9120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DK McGee View Post
See details NOVN21-5T

N21-5 Engine .21 5 Port Turbo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retail price: $389.00
Our price: $209.00 save 46%


whats wrong with mota ? how much is the reds ?

The reds with pipe/header is for now around 300.00 and we are trying to get it even lower. you can buy this setup and within 1 hour you can race it, no heat gun to start it as they are pre-lapped and basically ready to go. YB , in the very soon future the IGT8F spec engine will be specific for the class with a different color and custom etching along with a complete boxed package!

Quote:
Originally Posted by *1speedy View Post
I have read the Spec rules that have been written and have not jumped to any quick conclusions, in fact I have considered not responding at all because it may look like my goal is to chastise and that is far from being true. I feel I have enough experience to have a fair grasp on the GT8 class yet I am sure many others are more qualified. Since this is a discussion, I also would like to share my thoughts after a few questions.

The Spec rules that are written, are these to be enforced at your local tracks in Texas or the entire GT8 community to apply?

I have another question I would like to ask about Spec. Is the goal in these rules to keep cost down for those who cannot afford the full cost of true competitive Open racing or just to make a Very Even class or is there another reason?

What was so wrong with the Spec rules we had in the past? I always thought that they just needed to be “TweeKed” why the massive change?

I have much to say but do not want to make any assumptions on your motives especially with the amount of labor you have put in.

The reason I don’t PM these questions is I would dislike it very much if in the future one of us was vague or unclear since our common goal is to grow the GT8 class.

Thanks ahead of time for answering a few of my questions.


.
Speedy, there is no spec class right now or really anything other than open on a national level. I am going to let Tony answer your other questions. he is a truck driver and on the way back from Dallas so his internet access is limited.

On another note remember guys this is just a forum, there is ALOT of other conversations and discussions that you guys just dont know about via PM and email. I would not base your judgements solely on just what you see here.There are no kickbacks or ill intentions and guess what? someone is going to sell parts and kits everyday why is it so bad that anyone besides the "big boys" can make money at this? This is my only job and your damn right If i can make money and not screw anyone i am game for it my family depends on it. You all have jobs and i assume you are good at what you do or you wouldnt be able to afford these expensive cars. Desoto pays their bills by selling cars,kits and parts as do I and its what i do from sun up to sun down I have no other job. I dont hate on them because EVERY SERPENT kit sold comes through them from one way or another, same with Alpha and NOVA hell i wish i was in their position to be honest with you So to those of you that complain that there is a money agenda well in a sense there is but not in a bad way. I can sell nova and i can also sell Serpent and ALPHA so with either of them on the SPEC class i would make the same amount of percentage that i get from a TeamC sell, i am not a REDS dealer so financially it would make more sense for me to pick the common combo. I am only a dealer and sell retail, Desoto is a distributor that sells wholesale and retail. those of you that understand business can put together how that ultimately works out with money percentage wise. They are successful for a reason and they are smart, this is no mistake.

Just dont assume everyone is bad, there are some of us that genuinely want to make this work. I feel that the combo Tony has come up with makes sense and will work, while at the same time allowing other eager companies into the game, is this so wrong?
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