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Old 08-01-2013, 05:08 PM   #8791
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Well we are racers and what racers do, me included, we keep trying to go faster than the next guy, which is why this is racing and not a Parade. So we have all worked on our cars, found bodies that work better, engines that are faster and then the change in tires.

The engine rules were started when we did not have enough grip in the track or the tires, so an engine with more power did not make you any faster. Well today we have the mechanical grip, wether it is from the tires, better bodies, better track prep or just better cars and or set up.

But that ship has sailed. So I do have 3-4 engines in my box that I will use different engines based on where I am racing. I did not like the RAPID change in tire shores, which resulted in faster lap times, but also much shorter life of the tires. I really believe we are at a point it would be cheaper to run 1/8th 4wd open rather than GT.

So the best we can hope for is maybe enough racers to have an open and stock/spec/sportsman (what ever you call it) that has some limits. Which would give a new racer a place to start. I would personally like to see this class like VTA, which is a spec class and they have far more racers than we will ever see, and yes will have races with more than 100 entries.

My belief is and has been that a good group of 1/2 dozen engines that give similar performance, and tune well with some life like some groups started with. Tires either a given spec and or maybe limit sets, with the option for additional if you bump from a lower main will help. Ryan, your tire rule is close if you just limited how many sets, plus another if you bump the A. Not that you had to purchase a set, but that you could. This could be done with different brands at different tacks, so the mfg gets to make the pitch to the tracks or clubs. Just like they do with electric touring.

So thanks for reading and letting me put in my 2 cents.

Mark
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Old 08-01-2013, 11:17 PM   #8792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Hawk View Post
What if we did an open tire but a 2 or 3 set limit? I hate seeing people go through $250 worth of tires in a weekend. Thoughts?
That’s a great idea!

That idea was suggested several years ago, sorry I didn’t implement it before.
Also sorry to hear about all you guys going thru $250 in tires for a few qualifiers and mains, that’s crazy.

At the GTWC races having 2 days of open track practice, 8 to 10 rounds of quals and 1 hour A & 30 minute B mains, you fellas would burn thru twice or three times that $250 bucks.

Seriously, there’s no way the GT class can’t survive with that kind of tire expenditure being tossed at it. I believe a max of three sets for both the qualifiers and mains of most races is a better way to go.

A good addition to that kind of tire rule might be to allow replacements if a tires blow up in any main, but $250 in tires for what….. four mains or so, I don’t think that’s what GT racing was ever supposed to be about.

I heard that some racers are changing tires in 30-45 minute mains now?
Is that really true?

Last edited by Jspeed; 08-01-2013 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:44 AM   #8793
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I see all the debate about GT and the direction its going. I am just getting back into nitro and so far have 3 races on my Cobra GT8. Love the class, car and fellow racers! Back in the day I ran 1/10th nitro turning. GT is the only class at this time I see growing and it would really be sad to see this class start to suffer due to negative debates on simple issues.

I would say, if you want to make restrictions then make them at your local races and events or create a separate class for beginners. For me, I would not avoid going to an event if they made restrictions for like tires and motors... Most of us just want to race.. if I have to get a couple of sets of tires to race at your track... oh well. as for motors.. there are plenty of motors out there for 250- 300.00 that are epic! ( I have the kappo rally and love it!, just as strong as anything out there for 400-500 IMO)

We/I don't seem to have the issues with the tires wear in Texas. I usually go thru 2 sets for a weekend. (100.00)(if they stay glued to the rims.. which seems to be an issue lately, but I am sure the MFG's will get that worked out quickly)

Bottom line.... Its all about having fun, supporting our hobby and enjoying the time we have off. I got into the GT8 thinking it would be less expensive... but its well worth it to me.
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Old 08-02-2013, 09:58 AM   #8794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MantisWorx View Post
Joaqin Jr is TQ right now with Paola 2nd, I'm sitting in 8 or 9th right now,
Gorgeous track, super smooth and fast. It's abrasive, tire strategy is going to be interesting for the hour long main. Paolo mutilated a set of super softs first round in 10min , it was worth it though as he cranked out the first 17 second lap of the day.I think only him and Jr have run 17's so far
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Originally Posted by Jspeed View Post
Thatís a great idea!

That idea was suggested several years ago, sorry I didnít implement it before.
Also sorry to hear about all you guys going thru $250 in tires for a few qualifiers and mains, thatís crazy.

At the GTWC races having 2 days of open track practice, 8 to 10 rounds of quals and 1 hour A & 30 minute B mains, you fellas would burn thru twice or three times that $250 bucks.

Seriously, thereís no way the GT class canít survive with that kind of tire expenditure being tossed at it. I believe a max of three sets for both the qualifiers and mains of most races is a better way to go.

A good addition to that kind of tire rule might be to allow replacements if a tires blow up in any main, but $250 in tires for whatÖ.. four mains or so, I donít think thatís what GT racing was ever supposed to be about.

I heard that some racers are changing tires in 30-45 minute mains now?
Is that really true?
Yes, it is happening
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:05 AM   #8795
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Originally Posted by wiggindude6969 View Post
I see all the debate about GT and the direction its going. I am just getting back into nitro and so far have 3 races on my Cobra GT8. Love the class, car and fellow racers! Back in the day I ran 1/10th nitro turning. GT is the only class at this time I see growing and it would really be sad to see this class start to suffer due to negative debates on simple issues.

I would say, if you want to make restrictions then make them at your local races and events or create a separate class for beginners. For me, I would not avoid going to an event if they made restrictions for like tires and motors... Most of us just want to race.. if I have to get a couple of sets of tires to race at your track... oh well. as for motors.. there are plenty of motors out there for 250- 300.00 that are epic! ( I have the kappo rally and love it!, just as strong as anything out there for 400-500 IMO)

We/I don't seem to have the issues with the tires wear in Texas. I usually go thru 2 sets for a weekend. (100.00)(if they stay glued to the rims.. which seems to be an issue lately, but I am sure the MFG's will get that worked out quickly)

Bottom line.... Its all about having fun, supporting our hobby and enjoying the time we have off. I got into the GT8 thinking it would be less expensive... but its well worth it to me.
Well said sir ....

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Old 08-02-2013, 10:15 AM   #8796
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How about these ideas concerning tire rules......

1. Whatever shore you had in your fastest qualifier you have to use for the race?
2. No tire changes during mains.
3. Set number of each shore of tire for the race weekend/ day/ event.

Just a thought ....

BM
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Old 08-02-2013, 10:39 AM   #8797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by British Menace View Post
How about these ideas concerning tire rules......

1. Whatever shore you had in your fastest qualifier you have to use for the race?
2. No tire changes during mains.
3. Set number of each shore of tire for the race weekend/ day/ event.

Just a thought ....

BM
Numbers 1 and 3 would be good if changes in the weather/track conditions stayed the same throughout a race weekend. We change because of what the weather and track conditions dictate to us. As far as number 2, what happens if you have a tire blowout and break a tire due to an accident or wall crash, you would have to be allowed to replace/change the tire to continue racing, right?
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Old 08-02-2013, 01:42 PM   #8798
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The key to running a good low cost class is picking a solid low cost kit and standardizing it. You have to keep costs down to get new folks in and interested. At my off road track the most popular class is stock slash.. its been the most popular for 6yrs now. We rarely have less then 3 heats. No modifications other then servo and receiver are allowed. Our RC sailing club we only run one boat kit its the Soling.. again a good decent performance low cost kit. Our track reminds me of a local ice rink that decided to eliminate its learn to skate ice/program and just focus on bringing in the area hockey teams... After two years they finally realized that they had eliminated their feeder program and they could not make it on the mature groups alone.

If you don't like low budget stock racing there is lots of other stuff to run but right now I don't see that class in on-road RC. I think GT started out that way as did the touring car class 14 or 15yrs ago but then folks wanted more and it evolved and we are not replacing the feeder classes. I started running GT this year.. It cost me $1400 to put a car on the track, then I bought extra parts ($350), setup stuff ($300), extra tires ($50 a set x4), etc. I already had the radio, tools, charger, generator, starting box, etc.

I figure I spend about $100 a race day (gas, food, entry fee, nitro, tires). Racing at this level is expensive but we need to find a low cost class, standardize it, and stick with it to attract new folks! The electric guys might have something with the F1 cars, we'll have to see how that goes?
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:03 PM   #8799
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Originally Posted by T-Hawk View Post
Yes, it is happening
Seriously, tire changes in the middle of A Mains?

I guess all those “GT is so realistic” guys finally did it; win at any cost has finally arrived in GT.

I’ve always believed in hard or medium foam inserts for our tires, so that consumer’s tires lasted them a long time and the class would grow. Sacrificing slightly in performance in qualifiers has always seemed more important to me, so that racers could dial-in their cars to run very well in the long mains and not break the bank doing it.

If people are just running short mains it probably doesn’t matter too much, but 30+ minute races are a different matter. Nobody should ever change GT tires in any main unless they suffer serious damage during the race, but changes because they want to of can afford it, is ridicules shouldn’t be allowed.

A severely confused individual recently accused me of trying to kill the class in this forum, judging by this new conversation of $250 expenditures of GT tires at a weekend race is starting to hit some racers wallets, it seems like the damage has already been by someone else.

So tell me, how many pit guys does it take to swap a whole set of tires and get back out on the track to finish their main?

How many GT racers are swapping tires during A mains these days?
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:09 PM   #8800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by British Menace View Post
How about these ideas concerning tire rules......

1. Whatever shore you had in your fastest qualifier you have to use for the race?
2. No tire changes during mains.
3. Set number of each shore of tire for the race weekend/ day/ event.

Just a thought ....

BM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLock View Post
Numbers 1 and 3 would be good if changes in the weather/track conditions stayed the same throughout a race weekend. We change because of what the weather and track conditions dictate to us. As far as number 2, what happens if you have a tire blowout and break a tire due to an accident or wall crash, you would have to be allowed to replace/change the tire to continue racing, right?
+1

If the weather conditions drastically change during an event, racers should have the option to change shore somewhat if its a big race, but I'm talking about extreme cold/heat or wet/rain changes in climate only.
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:44 PM   #8801
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Originally Posted by D.a.v.e View Post
The key to running a good low cost class is picking a solid low cost kit and standardizing it. You have to keep costs down to get new folks in and interested. At my off road track the most popular class is stock slash.. its been the most popular for 6yrs now. We rarely have less then 3 heats. No modifications other then servo and receiver are allowed. Our RC sailing club we only run one boat kit its the Soling.. again a good decent performance low cost kit. Our track reminds me of a local ice rink that decided to eliminate its learn to skate ice/program and just focus on bringing in the area hockey teams... After two years they finally realized that they had eliminated their feeder program and they could not make it on the mature groups alone.

If you don't like low budget stock racing there is lots of other stuff to run but right now I don't see that class in on-road RC. I think GT started out that way as did the touring car class 14 or 15yrs ago but then folks wanted more and it evolved and we are not replacing the feeder classes. I started running GT this year.. It cost me $1400 to put a car on the track, then I bought extra parts ($350), setup stuff ($300), extra tires ($50 a set x4), etc. I already had the radio, tools, charger, generator, starting box, etc.

I figure I spend about $100 a race day (gas, food, entry fee, nitro, tires). Racing at this level is expensive but we need to find a low cost class, standardize it, and stick with it to attract new folks! The electric guys might have something with the F1 cars, we'll have to see how that goes?
Dave,

When I first got into racing GT back in 2008, we ran the Kyosho cars only and they had to be box stock except for diff oil, shock oil, RX, and servo changes. This was when I helped Bvoltz to get the class off the ground at his Bass Pro Series races we were doing in Jackson, MS. We had fun even though we were literally blowing up GXR engines. Then Bvoltz put me on a homework assignment to come up with a list of low cost engines to replace the GXR so that it did not run people away but gave them a more reliable engine to last a while. We came up with 6 engines, all under $200 that were pretty equal in HP, performance and reliability. My entry cost with the replacement engine and a couple of sets of OFNA slicks with my GT 1 back then was right about $600 to $625. The class had stayed that way until about 2 years ago when the big push was to have no limits on the engines. Since then, it has been "spend like you have an 8th scale pan car" which is fine for some but not for those with tighter budgets.

There could be room again for two classes of GT cars but in the current climate, that will be a hard sell. Like you mentioned, this is why I am currently running VTA and F1 at my local carpet track. With those classes, you don't necessarily need the "latest/greatest" of everything to be competitive. Example: when I first started running my F1, it was an original F103 from the early 2000s with a brushed motor/ESC and stock Tamiya gears. I usually finished in the top 4 against racers running brushless systems and had the latest cars. My VTA is a Xray T2 009 chassis and it hangs in well with the Xray T4 and other high-end kits (usually finish in the top 3 to 5 depending). But, there will have to be a grassroots push for doing a lower cost GT class like back when GT was coming onto the playing field back in 2007.
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Old 08-02-2013, 03:51 PM   #8802
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Originally Posted by JLock View Post
Dave,

When I first got into racing GT back in 2008, we ran the Kyosho cars only and they had to be box stock except for diff oil, shock oil, RX, and servo changes. This was when I helped Bvoltz to get the class off the ground at his Bass Pro Series races we were doing in Jackson, MS.

But, there will have to be a grassroots push for doing a lower cost GT class like back when GT was coming onto the playing field back in 2007.
Get ready to be attacked for saying that!

The "GT youngbloods" worked too hard to kill the original class to let you get away with saying that!
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Old 08-02-2013, 04:58 PM   #8803
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amazing i am still running basically a ofna gtp not a gtp2 with a go21 gxIIsho and can run with most anyone in the straights finally got it to enter and exit corners decent still off the pace to the big guns and the latest vehicles yes (driver but getting better) but i have only trashed 1 tire this season not one set but 1 tire and that was a deformed wheel from a runaway situation I have run the same qualifier tires for 4 events do i have spares you bet but they are not coming out of the bags till the ones i have been running on the car are done
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Old 08-02-2013, 06:14 PM   #8804
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Has anyone tried one of those Lutz engines in a GT car ...... any good?

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Old 08-02-2013, 07:18 PM   #8805
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Here is my short tenure of my A-Main accomplishments so far in the nitro onroad 1/8 GT class:


2013 Finished 3rd place at Byron’s Onroad Challenge in Joliet, IL
(Engine used: Novarossi Basic Sport , ~$250. 3 sets of tires used total for practice, qualifiers and the main)

2013 Finished 4th place at Midwest Series Race 2 in Portage, IN
(Engine used: Novarossi stock 35 Plus .21, ~$350. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main, used old tires during practice).

2013 TQ’ed and finished 1st place at Midwest Series Race 1 in Toledo, OH
(Engine used: Novarossi Basic Sport, ~$250. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main, used old tires during practice).

2013 Finished 3rd place at Novarossi Challenge in Porter, TX
(Engine used: Novarossi Basic Sport, ~$250. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main, used old tires during practice).

2013 Top Ten finisher (DNF) at 1/8 GT International Pan American Grand Prix in Homestead, FL
(Engine used: Novarossi Basic Sport, ~$250. 3 sets of tires used total for qualifiers/practice, and the main).

2012 TQ’ed and finished 1st place at ROAR Region 9 Onroad Championship in Porter, TX
(Engine used: Novarossi Basic Sport, ~$250. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main, used old tires during practice).

2012 Finished 2nd place in A-Main Expert class at GT8 Championship (Flyod Bennett Field, NY)
(Engine used: Novarossi stock 35 Plus .21, ~$350. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main, used old tires during practice).

2012 TQ’ed and finished 1st place at SWCS Race #4 in Porter, TX
(Engine used: Novarossi Basic Sport, ~$250. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main, used old tires during practice).

2012 Finished 2nd place at 35th Texas Biggie in Rendon, TX
(Engine used: Novarossi stock 35 Plus .21, ~$350. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main, used old tires during practice).

2012 TQ’ed and finished 1st place at SWCS Race #3 in Porter, TX
(Engine used: Novarossi Basic Sport, ~$250. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main, used old tires during practice).

2012 Qualified 4th and finished 5th place at RCPRO Onroad National Championship in Porter, TX
(Engine used: Novarossi stock 35 Plus .21, ~$350. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main, used old tires during practice).

2012 TQ’ed and finished 1st place at SWCS Race #2 in Rendon, TX
(Engine used: Novarossi Basic Sport, ~$250. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main, used old tires during practice).

2012 TQ’ed and finished 1st place at SWCS Race #1 in Porter, TX
(Engine used: Novarossi Basic Sport, ~$250. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main, used old tires during practice).

2011 1st Place winner overall for the Texas Nitro Winter Series(TNWS)

2011 TQ'ed and finished 2nd place at ROAR Region 9 Onroad Championship
(Engine used: Novarossi stock 35 Plus .21, ~$350. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main, used old tires during practice).

2011 2nd Place winner overall for the SouthWest Championship Series(SWCS)

2011 TQ’ed and finished 1st place at Gulf Coast Grand Prix in Porter, TX
(Engine used: Novarossi stock 35 Plus .21, ~$350. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main, used old tires during practice).

2011 TQ'ed and finished 1st place at XRAY Challenge (final leg of SWCS race in Porter, TX)
(Engine used: Novarossi stock 35 Plus .21, ~$350. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main, used old tires during practice).

2011 TQ'ed and DNF at Texas Biggie in Fort Worth, TX
(Engine used: Novarossi stock 35 Plus .21, ~$350. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main)

2011 TQ'ed and finished 1st place at SWCS Race #2 in Porter, TX
(Engine used: Novarossi stock 35 Plus .21, ~$350. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main)

2011 1st Place winner at SWCS Race #1 in Rendon, TX
(Engine used: Novarossi stock 35 Plus .21, ~$350. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main)

2010 1st Place winner of Paris Memorial race in Las Vegas, NV
(Engine used: LRP Spec 3 .28 , less than $200. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main)

2010 1st Place winner of Utah GT State Championship (Open class)
(Engine used: LRP Spec 3 .28 , less than $200. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main)

2010 1st Place winner of Utah GT State Championship (Spec class)
(Engine used: Axial .28(green head), less than $200. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main)

2010 2nd Place winner of Rocky Mountain Challenge in Denver, CO
(Engine used: Axial .28(green head), less than $200. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main)

2009 2nd Place winner of Summer Sizzler in Salt Lake City, Utah
(Engine used: Axial .28(green head), less than $200. 2 sets of tires used total for both qualifiers and the main)

Also:

During 2009 and 2010 I’ve replaced 5 engines(still learning the art of engine tuning at that time since I just started RC car racing in the summer of 2009).

During 2011 I used 2 engines for the entire season (one of them was a backup).

During 2012 I used 2 engines for the entire season (one of them was a backup).

So yes, as of 2013, 1/8 GT class is definitely NOT an expensive class if you don’t want it to be. If everyone just stay away from all the BS and just focus on car setup, learning how to tune the engine properly, driving a good line consistently, be courteous to one another on the track and off the track and YOU WILL SAVE MONEY and having FUN doing it.
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