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Old 05-19-2009, 01:39 PM   #931
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Default tire split

i saw somewhere on here someone was talking about tire split measurements, i usually run a 7mm split,<69 front 76 rear> i saw that if you run something a little different, you get great steering , worse tire wear, do you remember that split, has to do with overdrive im sure thanx, want to experiment tomorrow
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:41 PM   #932
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More split = more on power steering.

Less split = less on power steering.
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:47 PM   #933
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Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
More split = more on power steering.

Less split = less on power steering.
so 70 front and 76 rear would do the trick, or go more aggresive?8mm,9mm etc...thanx
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Old 05-19-2009, 02:28 PM   #934
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Hello everyone! Can anyone tell me about how much weight can I shed using the upper and lower Titanium screw sets.? Pros/Cons
Thanks, Ken
Thanks for all of your replies on this issue guys. Just trying to get the most I can get out of the car. I feel my driving is fairly desent and I do'nt crash or contact the broards nearly as much as I used to years ago. I already have many lightweight hop-ups on the car,yet it feels heavy to me. The only things I have not done is use Titanium screws or switch to Lipo.

Thanks, Ken
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Old 05-19-2009, 05:45 PM   #935
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Originally Posted by kmh View Post
Thanks for all of your replies on this issue guys. Just trying to get the most I can get out of the car. I feel my driving is fairly desent and I do'nt crash or contact the broards nearly as much as I used to years ago. I already have many lightweight hop-ups on the car,yet it feels heavy to me. The only things I have not done is use Titanium screws or switch to Lipo.

Thanks, Ken
if you REALLY want to feel a difference, swap out to the RB XENON motor, grabbed on today, they are super light!!
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:09 PM   #936
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Originally Posted by djmachinist View Post
I would assume a smoother engagement however maybe MUGEN DREW will expand on his posting no. 924 and enlighten the rest of us. I also would like to here from Mike S. on this issue.

Dale
The spring fights the weights.
The weights apply a force to the clutch shoe.
The spring does all it can to resist this force.
Mugen has NO idea how you drive or what the track traction is like. They have to make something that can be used at every location and it's available traction.
When you reduce the weight of the flyweights you will increase the rpm that the shoe first makes contact with the clutch bell per given spring.
Because of this reduced weight the clutch shoe will also make contact or engagement with less force which equals a little more slip. Slip helps with control at corner exit. First person back on throttle before or at the corner apex will enter the straight a position ahead or defend there current position.
Each spring has it's own feel. I like the amount of slip before lock up that the MSR/JP spring provides here on the Florida tracks. If I wanted more slip before lock up I would use a softer spring. If I wanted less slip before lock up I would use a crf(fly weights are to heavy) or a cut down front spring from a FORD Mustang(if it would fit).
If your over 1.2mm from the spring adjusting nut to the end of the flywheel nut, or your beyond 11mm from the tip of the crankshaft to the face of the adjusting nut( I don't recommend measuring it this way as the distance varies some what from engine manufacture to engine manufacture) your fly weights are to heavy.
Are you really happy with your clutch but find clutch dust all over your car. Drill the fly weights.
Want the clutch to engage harsher/ hit harder/ lock up sooner, increase the gap between the clutch bell and the clutch disc. Low traction decrease the clutch shoe to bell clearance or reduce spring tension or increase the flyweights weight.
Where I'm at with the three flyweight clutch; I have drilled shoe sets at 3.75,4.0 and 4.25mm. Will start with the gap set at .4mm and a new MSR spring set at .8mm.
Club racing provides a prepared track for a prepared TEST&TUNE. You don't have to win them all.
I would like to thank Mike S. and Vince T. for there conversation and input.
Sup GREG...Sup Short Bus
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:28 PM   #937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MugenDrew View Post
The spring fights the weights.
The weights apply a force to the clutch shoe.
The spring does all it can to resist this force.
Mugen has NO idea how you drive or what the track traction is like. They have to make something that can be used at every location and it's available traction.
When you reduce the weight of the flyweights you will increase the rpm that the shoe first makes contact with the clutch bell per given spring.
Because of this reduced weight the clutch shoe will also make contact or engagement with less force which equals a little more slip. Slip helps with control at corner exit. First person back on throttle before or at the corner apex will enter the straight a position ahead or defend there current position.
Each spring has it's own feel. I like the amount of slip before lock up that the MSR/JP spring provides here on the Florida tracks. If I wanted more slip before lock up I would use a softer spring. If I wanted less slip before lock up I would use a crf(fly weights are to heavy) or a cut down front spring from a FORD Mustang(if it would fit).
If your over 1.2mm from the spring adjusting nut to the end of the flywheel nut, or your beyond 11mm from the tip of the crankshaft to the face of the adjusting nut( I don't recommend measuring it this way as the distance varies some what from engine manufacture to engine manufacture) your fly weights are to heavy.
Are you really happy with your clutch but find clutch dust all over your car. Drill the fly weights.
Want the clutch to engage harsher/ hit harder/ lock up sooner, increase the gap between the clutch bell and the clutch disc. Low traction decrease the clutch shoe to bell clearance or reduce spring tension or increase the flyweights weight.
Where I'm at with the three flyweight clutch; I have drilled shoe sets at 3.75,4.0 and 4.25mm. Will start with the gap set at .4mm and a new MSR spring set at .8mm.
Club racing provides a prepared track for a prepared TEST&TUNE. You don't have to win them all.
I would like to thank Mike S. and Vince T. for there conversation and input.
Sup GREG...Sup Short Bus
Wow! We got the whole nine yards for a answer!!! Well said!!!!

Thank you,
Dale
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:37 PM   #938
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Originally Posted by TommyBlazin View Post
if you REALLY want to feel a difference, swap out to the RB XENON motor, grabbed on today, they are super light!!
Thanks for the info.There are a few guys at my track running the Xenon and they seem like a fast motor, but I'm a JP man. I will check into the weight of the motor though,now I'm curious.
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:38 PM   #939
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Can someone please explain the 3mm rear wheelbase shortening modification?
How to do it and how it effects car handling?
Thx,
G
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:22 PM   #940
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Regarding the tire split discussion a few posts back...

Because of the one-way front axle, won't the tire split "auto adjust" as the tires wear? If you start with a split less than 7mm, won't the front tires overdrive the rears and wear faster? As the fronts continue to wear, eventually they will find the appropriate split based on the internal gear ratio between the front and rear. The same would hold true for starting with a larger split except that the front one-way would mostly freewheel until the rear tires wore down to the calculated split.

I can see deviating from the 7mm split for qualifiers since you may not have enough track time to equalize the split. However, for long main events, shouldn't you avoid tuning with the split as the difference will eventually go away and you will be back to 7mm?
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Old 05-20-2009, 12:46 AM   #941
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanyonCarverR1 View Post
How does the clutch react differently when drilling the fly weights? Smoother engaugement? Harder engaugement? Other?
Very light fly weights = the centax clutch engage at higher rpm = harder engangement, aggresive driving style = suitable for high traction.

Normal fly weights = the centax clutch engage at normal rpm = smoother engangement, less aggresive driving style = suitable for low traction.

Too much pressure on centax spring tension may cause the doughnut clutch shoe end up unevenly.
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:13 AM   #942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MugenDrew View Post
The spring fights the weights.
The weights apply a force to the clutch shoe.
The spring does all it can to resist this force.
Mugen has NO idea how you drive or what the track traction is like. They have to make something that can be used at every location and it's available traction.
When you reduce the weight of the flyweights you will increase the rpm that the shoe first makes contact with the clutch bell per given spring.
Because of this reduced weight the clutch shoe will also make contact or engagement with less force which equals a little more slip. Slip helps with control at corner exit. First person back on throttle before or at the corner apex will enter the straight a position ahead or defend there current position.
Each spring has it's own feel. I like the amount of slip before lock up that the MSR/JP spring provides here on the Florida tracks. If I wanted more slip before lock up I would use a softer spring. If I wanted less slip before lock up I would use a crf(fly weights are to heavy) or a cut down front spring from a FORD Mustang(if it would fit).
If your over 1.2mm from the spring adjusting nut to the end of the flywheel nut, or your beyond 11mm from the tip of the crankshaft to the face of the adjusting nut( I don't recommend measuring it this way as the distance varies some what from engine manufacture to engine manufacture) your fly weights are to heavy.
Are you really happy with your clutch but find clutch dust all over your car. Drill the fly weights.
Want the clutch to engage harsher/ hit harder/ lock up sooner, increase the gap between the clutch bell and the clutch disc. Low traction decrease the clutch shoe to bell clearance or reduce spring tension or increase the flyweights weight.
Where I'm at with the three flyweight clutch; I have drilled shoe sets at 3.75,4.0 and 4.25mm. Will start with the gap set at .4mm and a new MSR spring set at .8mm.
Club racing provides a prepared track for a prepared TEST&TUNE. You don't have to win them all.
I would like to thank Mike S. and Vince T. for there conversation and input.
Sup GREG...Sup Short Bus
myself being a honors graduate from the mugen drew school of clutch think that was an awsome post. i remember that conversation
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Old 05-20-2009, 08:46 AM   #943
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemical X View Post
Regarding the tire split discussion a few posts back...

Because of the one-way front axle, won't the tire split "auto adjust" as the tires wear? If you start with a split less than 7mm, won't the front tires overdrive the rears and wear faster? As the fronts continue to wear, eventually they will find the appropriate split based on the internal gear ratio between the front and rear. The same would hold true for starting with a larger split except that the front one-way would mostly freewheel until the rear tires wore down to the calculated split.

I can see deviating from the 7mm split for qualifiers since you may not have enough track time to equalize the split. However, for long main events, shouldn't you avoid tuning with the split as the difference will eventually go away and you will be back to 7mm?
It has more to do with compounds than overdrive. If you run the same compound all around, the rears usually wear faster so your split goes down as you run. With a compound split like 32 front/35 rear the split tends to stay more even.
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Old 05-21-2009, 06:14 PM   #944
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His Drewness Kicks AZZ



You would think that he might be WICKED quick ... and He might be.... IF




he would come and race with us again !!!!


Where the hell you been dawg...

Oh Yeah and just for the record Vince Tate (Short Bus) IS my clutch Guru !!
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:08 PM   #945
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Now if I could just get him to explain the rear wheel base shortening thing. I found how to do it, but how does affect handling?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFowler View Post
His Drewness Kicks AZZ



You would think that he might be WICKED quick ... and He might be.... IF




he would come and race with us again !!!!


Where the hell you been dawg...

Oh Yeah and just for the record Vince Tate (Short Bus) IS my clutch Guru !!

Last edited by CanyonCarverR1; 05-21-2009 at 09:51 PM.
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