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Old 04-06-2009, 09:18 PM   #826
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Originally Posted by MugenDrew View Post
If you take the shim out you will notice the car sucking itself into the apex of the turn off power. Stack some shims on it or use the 3 up rites and you will discover a lame duck at corner entry and a push monster on corner exit (on power). This is something I tested once. 1mm spacer... let it eat
I haven't played with the shims but from what you describe, it sounds like I need to take the shim out. I really need more entry to mid off power steering. And yes, the 3 uprights will definitely reduce steering.
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Old 04-15-2009, 02:59 PM   #827
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Originally Posted by TommyBlazin View Post
sweet, do you have a part number for those perfect fitting 3mm spacers?and no-one sells those arms pre-cut with percision?id hate to attempt and sacrafice smoothness??thanks again

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Old 04-16-2009, 11:47 AM   #828
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Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
1. Grey springs rock, try them out sometime.

2. 32 fronts with 35 rears gives a bit more steering and very even tire wear throughout a run.

3. 301 is big, fast, smooth, good grip, low tire wear track.
Wingracer, by using the grey springs in front and in the rear, what shock oil weight do you recommend
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:31 AM   #829
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Default PF 909 Body issues

Hi there!


Today I got a set-up related question for the "masters":

This weekend I ran my x car with two different bodies on my home track. Ultrafast flowing, european style circuit with two flat out sweepers.

I started with Mike Swaugers most recent set-up. Grey springs all around, short rear wheel base, 32/35 tyres, etc.
The first body was my old trustworthy Central, 14mm in front of bumper, gurney extension 7mm.
With this set-up, the car was right on the money. Plenty fast with the only limiting factor being the driver. No push at all.

OK, wanted to test the new PF 909 and switched bodies during the lunch break. Same set-up and tyres, just the new body mounted 12mm in front of bumper. Measured from the middle of the bumper to the small "notch" inside the body which is the edge of the negative side from the raised nose. The guys that are using the 909 should know what I mean. Gurney extension 7mm.

Surprise, surprise, the car developed a lot of push in the high speed sweepers, although the rear end was more "locked" in. Lowered the gurney in two steps to about 0mm extension and gained high speed steering. Still a little bit less then with the Central, but with this set-up the car developed another bad habbit.

With this litte gurney extension it was almost impossible to brake into the hairpin without locking the rear wheels. I had to dial out so much brake until the point where I felt almost no deceleration. With the Central I could brake hard into the same corner and had more high speed steering as well.

I will try to get this sorted next weekend, but if I don't find an improvement I have to give up on that great looking body. But with so many rave reviews about it, I thought "hey, lets ask those guys for their advice..."

Any thoughts?


Thanks a lot and best regards,

Stefan
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Old 04-20-2009, 03:18 PM   #830
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on the 'r' style 4 shoe clutch, the msr spring gets run at around 1.5-2.00mm?
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:04 PM   #831
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Originally Posted by wingracer View Post
I haven't played with the shims but from what you describe, it sounds like I need to take the shim out. I really need more entry to mid off power steering. And yes, the 3 uprights will definitely reduce steering.
If that did not due what you were after...split the tire shore (32/33 fronts 35 rears) remove all the washers from under the upper hinge pin holders, flat sway bar. And last but not least, one axle washer between the drive pin and outer front wheel bearing. This produced a very violent front end when running 35' all the way around with a slight loss of on power steering.
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:10 PM   #832
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Originally Posted by TommyBlazin View Post
on the 'r' style 4 shoe clutch, the msr spring gets run at around 1.5-2.00mm?
With the XL9/TQ. Drill both holes in all of the flyweights to 3.5 or 4mm set the bell to shoe clearance at .4mm and the spring at .9mm ( I seem to end up somewhere between .9-1.0 with 4mm holes and a 8.5 restrictor) . 3.5mm holes are good for tracks that are marginally prepared/ not ran on very much, 4mm for prepared and stuck. 5mm should go in when it traction roles on race day...maybe.
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Old 04-20-2009, 08:35 PM   #833
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Same experience as you with 909 body.Got enough steering but after that brakes lock up and spin car out.Kept my mouth shut in 909 thread.Zytec body is still the best.tryed 909 11.50 in front of bumper and 12.00.with .12 put 4.5 block in but rear still snaped loose on the brakes.
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:30 AM   #834
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fulcrum2 View Post
Hi there!


Today I got a set-up related question for the "masters":

This weekend I ran my x car with two different bodies on my home track. Ultrafast flowing, european style circuit with two flat out sweepers.

I started with Mike Swaugers most recent set-up. Grey springs all around, short rear wheel base, 32/35 tyres, etc.
The first body was my old trustworthy Central, 14mm in front of bumper, gurney extension 7mm.
With this set-up, the car was right on the money. Plenty fast with the only limiting factor being the driver. No push at all.

OK, wanted to test the new PF 909 and switched bodies during the lunch break. Same set-up and tyres, just the new body mounted 12mm in front of bumper. Measured from the middle of the bumper to the small "notch" inside the body which is the edge of the negative side from the raised nose. The guys that are using the 909 should know what I mean. Gurney extension 7mm.

Surprise, surprise, the car developed a lot of push in the high speed sweepers, although the rear end was more "locked" in. Lowered the gurney in two steps to about 0mm extension and gained high speed steering. Still a little bit less then with the Central, but with this set-up the car developed another bad habbit.

With this litte gurney extension it was almost impossible to brake into the hairpin without locking the rear wheels. I had to dial out so much brake until the point where I felt almost no deceleration. With the Central I could brake hard into the same corner and had more high speed steering as well.

I will try to get this sorted next weekend, but if I don't find an improvement I have to give up on that great looking body. But with so many rave reviews about it, I thought "hey, lets ask those guys for their advice..."

Any thoughts?


Thanks a lot and best regards,

Stefan
If you are running 8 droop in the rear try 9.
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Old 04-22-2009, 01:52 PM   #835
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Originally Posted by fulcrum2 View Post
Hi there!


Today I got a set-up related question for the "masters":

This weekend I ran my x car with two different bodies on my home track. Ultrafast flowing, european style circuit with two flat out sweepers.

I started with Mike Swaugers most recent set-up. Grey springs all around, short rear wheel base, 32/35 tyres, etc.
The first body was my old trustworthy Central, 14mm in front of bumper, gurney extension 7mm.
With this set-up, the car was right on the money. Plenty fast with the only limiting factor being the driver. No push at all.

OK, wanted to test the new PF 909 and switched bodies during the lunch break. Same set-up and tyres, just the new body mounted 12mm in front of bumper. Measured from the middle of the bumper to the small "notch" inside the body which is the edge of the negative side from the raised nose. The guys that are using the 909 should know what I mean. Gurney extension 7mm.

Surprise, surprise, the car developed a lot of push in the high speed sweepers, although the rear end was more "locked" in. Lowered the gurney in two steps to about 0mm extension and gained high speed steering. Still a little bit less then with the Central, but with this set-up the car developed another bad habbit.

With this litte gurney extension it was almost impossible to brake into the hairpin without locking the rear wheels. I had to dial out so much brake until the point where I felt almost no deceleration. With the Central I could brake hard into the same corner and had more high speed steering as well.

I will try to get this sorted next weekend, but if I don't find an improvement I have to give up on that great looking body. But with so many rave reviews about it, I thought "hey, lets ask those guys for their advice..."

Any thoughts?


Thanks a lot and best regards,

Stefan
Just curious, are you running the light or regular P909? Also try same shore tires. If you can, try the body on the "R" and compare it to the "x". My car is a "RX" Hybrid-meaning, I run the r chassie with x parts with the "R" setup. Might be something to this
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Old 04-25-2009, 07:23 PM   #836
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Ran my X first time a couple days ago, damm what a car!! I am running swauger's latest setup, i think with a difference of -2 rear toe in, 1.5 positive front toe out, -3 rear camber, central body,Car does have the R chassis on it, but X all around.. 35 shore all around, the tire for track. car was excellent, only thing i need to do , and im sure its been answered on here, but ive searched and couldnt find, i want to keep the rear more planted, i have the 3mm short wheel base mod..i like to on-power almost slide/glide the car around carousel sections of track, as when i hit it right was the fastest way for sure,, but it seems at times if i pushed it,wich wasnt hard to do, have to really hit that throttle perfect,car felt like it naturally wanted to spin-out.. would 360 around real easy, i was finessing it in order not to, now i know i can get around that way, BUT if i can plant reAR Better, i can do it faster, ands thats what i am aiming for..any suggestions would be appreciated, as im coming from K car and WAY different...BTW.. i have the white springs not the grey, and the cars as light as i could get it, titanium screws throughout, lightweight axels,drive shafts,pulleys,lipo rec batt,.. etc....600wt oil in shocks..I possibly thought being this ight maybe the softer grey would help?would also like chassis tuning suggestions as well, i am running on monday all day to practice, get this car on the right track.,,Thanks in advance...also on the rear inner/upper hingepin holders<adjustable plastic inserts> i believe its set with the holes closer twords the outside of car, whats the difference in pulling them in,closer to centerline of chassis?

Lastley, the rear bearing position in setup sheet,where exactlly is that referring to?like same deal in front?
Tommy M.
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Last edited by TommyBlazin; 04-25-2009 at 11:01 PM.
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:52 AM   #837
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyBlazin View Post
Ran my X first time a couple days ago, damm what a car!! I am running swauger's latest setup, i think with a difference of -2 rear toe in, 1.5 positive front toe out, -3 rear camber, central body,Car does have the R chassis on it, but X all around.. 35 shore all around, the tire for track. car was excellent, only thing i need to do , and im sure its been answered on here, but ive searched and couldnt find, i want to keep the rear more planted, i have the 3mm short wheel base mod..i like to on-power almost slide/glide the car around carousel sections of track, as when i hit it right was the fastest way for sure,, but it seems at times if i pushed it,wich wasnt hard to do, have to really hit that throttle perfect,car felt like it naturally wanted to spin-out.. would 360 around real easy, i was finessing it in order not to, now i know i can get around that way, BUT if i can plant reAR Better, i can do it faster, ands thats what i am aiming for..any suggestions would be appreciated, as im coming from K car and WAY different...BTW.. i have the white springs not the grey, and the cars as light as i could get it, titanium screws throughout, lightweight axels,drive shafts,pulleys,lipo rec batt,.. etc....600wt oil in shocks..I possibly thought being this ight maybe the softer grey would help?would also like chassis tuning suggestions as well, i am running on monday all day to practice, get this car on the right track.,,Thanks in advance...also on the rear inner/upper hingepin holders<adjustable plastic inserts> i believe its set with the holes closer twords the outside of car, whats the difference in pulling them in,closer to centerline of chassis?

Lastley, the rear bearing position in setup sheet,where exactlly is that referring to?like same deal in front?
Tommy M.
Blazin,

Let me start with a quick fix... If you have access to a P909 body, put that on instead. The Central is a good body and gives good steering but may have the tendency of letting the rear end go away on you, which could sometimes be a good thing (but in this case is what you are trying to eliminate).

Having said that, you may also try the following to help as your next basic quick fixes:

- Bring camber to 3.5
- Bring rear shock to position #2 and or to #1 if needed
- Bring rear sway bar to 1.5 to 0.00 mm if needed

Not sure what track conditions were, but hope this helps for now.

The rear upper hinge pin position dictates for more or less camber gain. If you have it placed more away from the center of the chassis, I would leave it there.

Lastly, on the "X" rear hubs, there are shims which helps position the bearings. That is what the "Rear Bearing" is referring to in the set up sheet. I believe in Mike's Winternats set up, it shows set at 1.0 mm. (The front dont have these)

Hope this helps.
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Old 04-27-2009, 01:47 PM   #838
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I agree with Ron. If it's a bit loose with a Central, something like a 909 or r12 should plant it. Or, try raising the Gurney flap some more.

If you don't want to switch bodies just yet, lay those rear shocks down and/or soften the rear bar.
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Old 04-27-2009, 05:19 PM   #839
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Hi Guys

I tried the 3mm shorter wheel base mod but when I put the arms on with the spacer, the travel is fouled by the bulkhead wheere the bearing/axel is , no one mentioned that,

Has any one got a step by step proccess on how I can do this mod correctly.

Thank you
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:52 AM   #840
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Cut 1.5mm at Rear suspension arms.

Cut 1.5mm at Front suspension arms.
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