Emty, thank you for posting your pm. I'm going to go through this point by point.
1) Who i am has no bearing on the information i bring to the table,
**It absolutely does. It lends credibility to what you are saying. Bottom line is, if you have nothing to hide, just like me you should not have a problem saying either who you are or what your "fuel testing" involvement is.
2) Can you verify who you are ?
**Yes, I own the company. If you want, feel free to call me on monday the telephone number is posted on our web site www.werksracing.com
. That should be verification enough I would think. Still don't know who you are though!
3) No. I research this information and bring published web facts , not here say ..Anyone can say " Were the best because we use this and its better than 90% of the others etc " .. its just BS frankly ..
**What you are doing is quoting a test that was done in 1996, 11 years ago. That is it. For the rest you are saying the same here say as I'am which is "in your testing xyz worked much better". Problem is a) you can not tell me how it worked much better (I asked). b) You can not tell me what results you saw (again I asked). c) You will not say who you are or if you actually have any involvement in the production, development, testing of any thing rc related let alone fuel related (once again I asked). In my case I do not think any of this is in question is it?
4) You stated:
" Having said that when talking about our Werks "Race Blend" fuel you have to keep in mind that we are quite different than other fuel manufacturers. That difference is that our primary business involves the development and manufacturing of engines, something that none of the other fuel manufacturers do. " This is your statement .. Manufacture and development..
Youre speaking about companies that you know of but you dont know everybody that does this do you .. I know of at least 3 other private companies that do RnD develpment for engines that make fuel..
**Great, and I know of none (with the exception of Traxxas) so I guess you (whoever you are) know more about car related companies in the RC industry than I do. Since I personally know most of the competition engine manufacturers, specifically since we were the US importers for a couple of them I congratulate you.
5) that is a bold statement ... How do YOU know what other fuel maufacturers do in their RnD ? Have you been to their factories and made notes to back these claims ?
** I said that we are quite different than other fuel manufacturers because our primary business involves the development and manufacturing of engines. We are an engine company, you might consider it a bold statement but if I'm wrong please tell me of another one in the US that can say the same thing? I would think that if any of them were also making engines we would all know about it!
6) Dont get me wrong i appreciate your information but Firstly putting down Chinese nitro and then making statements like the former including stating that my claim to using 99.96 pure nitro questionable .. you are not qualified to make these claims, you havent seen it or read our spec sheets or seen our lab results.... its not going to look good saying stuff like that.
** Not a problem, I enjoy giving people feedback about what WE have seen in testing which is what I was talking about. Regarding my statement about Chinese nitro purity claim of being 99.96% being questionable, again I'm going to stand by what I said. I've received samples that were supposedly 99.99% pure also, do you believe that? You are right though, I have not seen YOUR spec sheets or seen YOUR lab results predominately because you will not say who YOU are or provide any of YOUR testing results like I have repeatedly asked for.
7) There are over 18 nitro plants in China .. 3 of which make exceptional Nitro intended for internal combustion engines. And widely used in the US . Making statements like this about the quality of Chinese nitro being dubious is an attack on peoples business.
** Great it's nice to hear that there are 18 nitro plants in China, it's also nice to hear that 3 of those 18 make nitro intended for internal combustion engines even though I'm not sure what would be different about nitro from the other plants, level of purity maybe??? I have never said that Chinese nitro is dubious. In a nutshell what I said was that in our testing we found Angus brand nitro to perform better when used as a component in fuel for RC engines. Is this an attack on peoples business? I don't think so, I think that this is a statement of facts based on our on track and dyno testing results. (Again if you have testing results in our application or facts that counter my claim I would invite you to post them).
8) And in fact if you state that 90% of other fuel maufacturers use chinese nitro so what are you saying about them .. that they make bad fuel ? Youre talking about Byrons, Wildcat, RunnerTime
** Lol, I think that it's pretty obvious. I'm saying that some of the other manufacturers choose to use Chinese nitro, we use US made. Nothing more, nothing less. For the rest your jumping to your own conclusion. I will add that I have never, ever singled out any product made by any manufacturer as being bad, in fuel, engines or any other category. Byrons, Morgan make good quality and consistent products. And regarding Runner Time, the owner and his two sons are acquaintances of mine.
9) US nitro is more expensive because its made in the US .. thats the only reason not because its better.
** If you say so. Still don't know what qualifies you to even state this? Read it on a web site maybe?
10) The chinese have been exploisives and chemichal experts for hundreds of years.. They know what they are doing.
** Ya I know, I think that they invented gun powder even though I'm not sure how that is relevant to this discussion.
11) Here is an excerpt from a well read article published a few years ago
The Chinese nitro is still being made in China at a specially constructed plant. It is imported to the US by Wego Chemical Company in NY. It is made by a different process than the Angus (now Dow Chemical as of 2 or 3 years ago) nitro. A test was done on the three nitro products that were available in 1996 and they found the Chinese nitro to be more pure than the Angus nitro, and much more pure than the product that VP was selling at the time. Those results may not hold up now, but they were accurate at the time the products were tested.
Here is the web page for it.
**Again as I mentioned a couple of posts ago you are quoting a test that was supposedly done over 11 years ago! I will also point out that I say supposedly because I still can not find any details of the results anywhere including the site that you linked to. This is similar to me pointing you to a web site that from the 90's that says Pepsi is better than Coke but not telling you why and expecting you to take it as the word of god.
12) If the chinese were capable of making this quality of nitro back 11 years ago then id say its just gotten better since, and obviously their process being different would be the reason it is purer, this is a stated fact, not words from my mouth..
** No it is purely speculation on your part not stated facts, you plainly indicate this by starting off with "id say" that is not a stated fact, that is you saying something.
13) I noticed you avoided my question about Angus being 98% pure, what is the other 2 % ? Do you know ? Thats 2% of carcenogenic impurities 2% water 2% Pureed Ducks liver ? what ? Stand behind your product please ...
** I never avoided your question, what I said previously was and I quote "Also be careful when you are quoting numbers as there are several different grades of nitro available. Again assuming that you are in the fuel business and if you were buying Angus brand nitro from VP you should note that the product sold into the automotive industry is not the same as for industrial use
and also includes a dye marker to indicate if the nitro is sensitized. " Notice the part that I underlined?
14) Here is what the Dow site says
You've known ANGUS Chemical Company as the primary manufacturer and marketer of nitroparaffin-based chemicals, supplying chemical intermediates such as nitromethane, AMP-95™ 2-amino-2-methyl-1-propanol, TRIS AMINO™ Tris (Hydroxymethyl) Aminomethane, IPHA I-15, ZOLDINE™ oxazolidines and NiPar Solvents - to name a few.
**Dow Chemicals bought Angus years ago so your point is? Or are you just confirming that they make Nitro because I think that we all know that.
14) I looked on their site for the 98 pure racing fuel but i cant find it anymore..
**Wonder why, maybe because they stopped selling it???? Now go back up and read the part that I underlined. Make sense now, we do not use the product that you are refering to and they used to sell as automotive racing fuel. We use their industrial product, not the same stuff. Why, maybe because we do not buy 5 gallons at a time from the corner hot rod shop!
15) So no bad feelings Werks , I know you have a great reputation with your products . And that Werks is a well respected company. That is why im giving you the heads up on making these claims. It wont look good for you and it dosent make friends within the industry..
**There are no bad feelings on my part either. If you want to mince words, I'm more than happy to do that but come with something a little more concrete than some test that was performed back in the '90's of which there are no specific results available for and a bunch of fluff as right now I think it does not look good for you. In any case, I think our discusion is done.