Serpent 720
08-01-2006, 04:28 AM
#871
Tech Adept
Originally Posted by Julius
This is where I disagree with the users of setup systems. The toe-measurements are not precise at all. Set the toe on a setup system and then put a ruler along the wheels and measure against the front wheel (when setting rear toe). You'll often find large differences.
It would seem to me that using a ruler would be less accurate because of some play in the suspension, rims not being exactly straight and depending and because of the steering of the front wheels, the back of the wheel may also differ a mm or two...
How do you set toe-out without a setup system?
08-01-2006, 05:12 AM
#872
The problem with the setup systems is that the angles you are measuring is quite small. And you want a high degree of accuracy. Especially in toe measurments you'd like to have 0.5 degrees of accuracy.
Most setup stations are about 50mm length where they measure toe angles. With a ruler you have about 200mm of length. So although you need to make sure the wheels are not bent (which is why I use some rims without tires on them when I want to be really accurate) and try to find the middle of the suspension play, you can be more precise with a ruler.
Be aware that suspension play is a factor with a setup station too.
For me an absolute toe-in value is less important then knowing both sides are equal. I'll have my pitman change the setting often during practice in the pit, and then take the average and set both sides to that value when I fine tune the setup later.
Most setup stations are about 50mm length where they measure toe angles. With a ruler you have about 200mm of length. So although you need to make sure the wheels are not bent (which is why I use some rims without tires on them when I want to be really accurate) and try to find the middle of the suspension play, you can be more precise with a ruler.
Be aware that suspension play is a factor with a setup station too.
For me an absolute toe-in value is less important then knowing both sides are equal. I'll have my pitman change the setting often during practice in the pit, and then take the average and set both sides to that value when I fine tune the setup later.
08-01-2006, 05:26 AM
#873
Originally Posted by Julius
The problem with the setup systems is that the angles you are measuring is quite small. And you want a high degree of accuracy. Especially in toe measurments you'd like to have 0.5 degrees of accuracy.
Most setup stations are about 50mm length where they measure toe angles. With a ruler you have about 200mm of length. So although you need to make sure the wheels are not bent (which is why I use some rims without tires on them when I want to be really accurate) and try to find the middle of the suspension play, you can be more precise with a ruler.
Be aware that suspension play is a factor with a setup station too.
For me an absolute toe-in value is less important then knowing both sides are equal. I'll have my pitman change the setting often during practice in the pit, and then take the average and set both sides to that value when I fine tune the setup later.
Most setup stations are about 50mm length where they measure toe angles. With a ruler you have about 200mm of length. So although you need to make sure the wheels are not bent (which is why I use some rims without tires on them when I want to be really accurate) and try to find the middle of the suspension play, you can be more precise with a ruler.
Be aware that suspension play is a factor with a setup station too.
For me an absolute toe-in value is less important then knowing both sides are equal. I'll have my pitman change the setting often during practice in the pit, and then take the average and set both sides to that value when I fine tune the setup later.
I asked a question here on the initial setting of the 2 speed clutch a couple of days ago and would appreciate it if you clarify how I should set it . I tried several settings and can not hear or see the clutch engaging although none of my tests where with the car on the track.
08-01-2006, 05:34 AM
#874
Originally Posted by B4
Whilst I would never part with my Hudy setup system I can see your point of view.
I asked a question here on the initial setting of the 2 speed clutch a couple of days ago and would appreciate it if you clarify how I should set it . I tried several settings and can not hear or see the clutch engaging although none of my tests where with the car on the track.
I asked a question here on the initial setting of the 2 speed clutch a couple of days ago and would appreciate it if you clarify how I should set it . I tried several settings and can not hear or see the clutch engaging although none of my tests where with the car on the track.
08-01-2006, 05:38 AM
#875
Originally Posted by Julius
It is difficult to hear without the car actually running. The stock setting should be in the ballpark. Best way is with the car running. If it doesn't shif you'll need to find out if it is stuck in 1st or 2nd. If the car accellerates quickly but reaches very high revs soon after it's stuck in 1st. You'll need to back out the screws with the springs half a turn at a time till it starts shifting. If acceleration is slow but the car accelerates for a long time before it reaches top revs, you're in 2nd. You'll need to tighten half a turn at a time.
08-01-2006, 05:42 AM
#876
Originally Posted by B4
Whilst I would never part with my Hudy setup system I can see your point of view.
I asked a question here on the initial setting of the 2 speed clutch a couple of days ago and would appreciate it if you clarify how I should set it . I tried several settings and can not hear or see the clutch engaging although none of my tests where with the car on the track.
I asked a question here on the initial setting of the 2 speed clutch a couple of days ago and would appreciate it if you clarify how I should set it . I tried several settings and can not hear or see the clutch engaging although none of my tests where with the car on the track.
1.) The 2-speed engages way to early and so you can’t feel it. I don’t believe you tightened the screws so far that it doesn’t shift at all.
2.) The 2 screws for the adjustment of the shifting point are total different, so it will shift very soft and you can’t feel this.
3.) Because all is new, the bearing in the 2-speed looses a bit oil witch comes on the clutch-bell. And that makes the shifting very smooth. After a few laps it should be gone.
When you disassemble the 2 speed, look very good at the shoes, you can see if the have touched (shifted in second gear) or not.
Rene
08-01-2006, 05:51 AM
#877
Originally Posted by Rene C.
I'm sure your 2-speed feeling problem can be 3 different things.
1.) The 2-speed engages way to early and so you can’t feel it. I don’t believe you tightened the screws so far that it doesn’t shift at all.
2.) The 2 screws for the adjustment of the shifting point are total different, so it will shift very soft and you can’t feel this.
3.) Because all is new, the bearing in the 2-speed looses a bit oil witch comes on the clutch-bell. And that makes the shifting very smooth. After a few laps it should be gone.
When you disassemble the 2 speed, look very good at the shoes, you can see if the have touched (shifted in second gear) or not.
Rene
1.) The 2-speed engages way to early and so you can’t feel it. I don’t believe you tightened the screws so far that it doesn’t shift at all.
2.) The 2 screws for the adjustment of the shifting point are total different, so it will shift very soft and you can’t feel this.
3.) Because all is new, the bearing in the 2-speed looses a bit oil witch comes on the clutch-bell. And that makes the shifting very smooth. After a few laps it should be gone.
When you disassemble the 2 speed, look very good at the shoes, you can see if the have touched (shifted in second gear) or not.
Rene
08-01-2006, 07:35 AM
#878
Originally Posted by Julius
It is difficult to hear without the car actually running. The stock setting should be in the ballpark.
B4, like I said, this depends on your engine, tune etc. I had a fully race-tuned engine the first time I went out with the 720 and it was in 2nd right away. This could be your problem. I recommend screwing in say 1 to 1-1/2 turns and then try again revving up slowly. Fine tune on the track after you are sure you're getting 1st gear.
Best way is with the car running. If it doesn't shif you'll need to find out if it is stuck in 1st or 2nd. If the car accellerates quickly but reaches very high revs soon after it's stuck in 1st. You'll need to back out the screws with the springs half a turn at a time till it starts shifting. If acceleration is slow but the car accelerates for a long time before it reaches top revs, you're in 2nd. You'll need to tighten half a turn at a time.
08-01-2006, 07:37 AM
#879
Originally Posted by Rene C.
...
When you disassemble the 2 speed, look very good at the shoes, you can see if the have touched (shifted in second gear) or not.
Rene
When you disassemble the 2 speed, look very good at the shoes, you can see if the have touched (shifted in second gear) or not.
Rene
08-01-2006, 09:29 AM
#880
"Yes you use the same tyres"
Thanks for the info, I just bought one and should have it in my hands in a couple of days. Also can I use the same Battries as in my V-one RRR WC? ........Boy you folks spell tires funny.
Jim
Thanks for the info, I just bought one and should have it in my hands in a couple of days. Also can I use the same Battries as in my V-one RRR WC? ........Boy you folks spell tires funny.
Jim
08-01-2006, 09:55 AM
#881
Originally Posted by J.Wright
"Yes you use the same tyres"
Thanks for the info, I just bought one and should have it in my hands in a couple of days. Also can I use the same Battries as in my V-one RRR WC? ........Boy you folks spell tires funny.
Jim
Thanks for the info, I just bought one and should have it in my hands in a couple of days. Also can I use the same Battries as in my V-one RRR WC? ........Boy you folks spell tires funny.
Jim
No, you can't use the receiver battery pack in your RRR for the Serpent 720. 720 uses 5-cell AAA battery pack which looks like this : http://www.mytsn.com/products/product.asp?prid=2808
You should use Lipo battery pack, talk to Nigel about it.
Carl
08-01-2006, 10:11 AM
#882
Thanks will do.
Jim
Jim
08-01-2006, 12:48 PM
#883
Tech Adept
Originally Posted by B4
An excellent explaination, i'm sure you and Julius are right in that it can really only be checked when under load.
), and then I could hear it in the air and it seemed to shift harder on the track. Before I had run it on the track, no matter which way I went with the screws, I couldn't hear it shift.
08-01-2006, 08:44 PM
#884
Originally Posted by captian
going to try and be there saturday
have been working O.t
have been working O.t
. Thanks to DJ Apalaro's setup tips and great pit work from my brother.
