321LikesKyosho Inferno MP9 TKI4 1/8 Buggy Kit
11-05-2018, 09:06 AM - Wikipost
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Picked up a TKI3 and want to upgrade to TKI4 ? Here are all the updated parts:
Shocks IF347-155 1.5X5 Pistons IF471-01 Front Shock Body IF470-01 Rear Shock Body IF470-03BK Shock Adjust Dial IFW154 Boots IF346-05C Shock End Set Wing IF491BK Wing IFW460B Wing Mount/Stay Rear End IFH006W Wheel IF490 HUB IF490-01 Hub Insert IF492 Shock Pin IF423HB Rear Arm IF287 Hard Upper Rod Rear Front End IF489 Steering Rod Set IF488 Knuckles IF487H Front Arm IFW458 Hard Lower Pin IFW425 93MM CVD IF286 Hard Upper Rod IF486 Lower Susp Holder IFW459 Servo Saver (Hard) IF446B Ackerman Arm IF426-64.5 Susp Shaft Other IF469B Filter 97035LW-13 Clutch Bell IF453B Body Mount IFW107GM Hexes W300910 Washer IF443B Center Diff Plate IF444C Tank IF479B Radio Box 96772 13x16x0.15mm Shim IF481B Fuel Tank Stay IFW336GM Wheelnut IFB008 TKI4 Body IFD403W TKI4 Decal --------------------------- Another option if you want TKI4 Durability but TKI3 geometry of the front arm is : IF493 Front Arm (Updated MP9 front arms replaces IF427B as a direct fit. Left and right.) They use the older TKI3 captured outer hinge pin and screw. But if you just reem out the the outer hole you can use TKI hinge-pin/nut (IFW458) --------------------------- Optional Updates / New Parts: IFW469 IFW469 Aeration Cap Set(Threaded Big Shock/MP9) IFW473 New Brake Pads (Sept 2017) Optional Alu front hubs: - IFW412 - 13 deg (like stock plastic ones) - IFW436 - 16 deg - IFW474 - 17.5 deg - IFW461 - 19deg M2C 1mm engine spacer: M2C9610 Body Options New Bitty Force Body Tebo's Build Videos Video #1 Video #2 Video #3 Video #4 Video #5 Video #6 Original Kyosho MP9 TKI Thread _____________________ Baseline setups from Joonas.   _____________________ Shock build with vented cap and compensator. You have to use the HC diaphragms (if346-09,stock TKI3 and if not mistaken TKI4 too, yes the thin ones no one likes), aeration caps without the bleeder screw or mod the stock caps by drilling a 1.5 or 2mm hole on the top facing up or at an angle (doesn't matter the size or angle, it just for bleeding pressure behind the diaphragm and allow the foam compensator to breathe) and a 10mm width x 3.5mm height dome shaped foam compensator made from old open cell inserts or dishwasher sponge. The foam compensator has to be soft enough not to add rebound but allow the diaphragm to regain it's shape. Setup Sheet and Tuning The setup sheet is getting crowded with all options but don't worry once you get acquainted with the parts will make sense. Run the car as is, more than probably you won't need anything else. Using my setup as an example: Diff gear has two options, normal and LSD. LSD stands for limited slip differential and is like using thick oils because you can't tune coast from locked. Shock setup is a bit more confusing, you have two shock body sizes (S and M and truggy sized rear shocks that only the first version had so forget this one), three types of pistons (flat holes and surfaces, flat holes tapered surface and tapered holes with tapered surface): tapered have most pack, then black(simple piston) and then white because length of the holes. Then you have different length springs to account for different shock sizes, for a standard wheelbase/no weights car a good combo is Light Blue front and Orange rear, if you extend the wheelbase then I expect the included Light Blue rear springs be money instead of Orange. Ride height is self explanatory, start always with lower arms parallel because good suspension geometry will be far easier to achieve. Rebound is used as total shock length no idea why they call it rebound, either use total shock length or maximum exposed shock shaft length. Camber self explanatory, run more camber in the front than the rear to make the car oversteer and more rear than front to make it understeer(grossly oversimplified). Toe same deal as camber(again grossly oversimplified) but this you have to run the least amount you can. I use around 2º-2.5º on my cars, never more as I can find traction by other means with way less impact on performance. Wheelbase is a powerful setting, changes a lot of stuff. Let's just say that it can make the car behave neutral or not in that small range. Try for yourself. I like to use the longest setting and tune from there. Shock position self explanatory, something most don't change and I don't play around with it. I do have a method but involves much work (with the car bottomed out, see which position places the shock 90º to the lower arm and then chose spring from a couple equations and bam done, I can do it easily so anyone interested just ask. Rear upper arm position is again an important setting, you change both camber gain and roll centre. The rear roll centre should be higher than the front, that's why I use the middle hole inner row as a starting setup. Suspension arm, self explanatory: there are two different length arms and each has a hard and a normal flex plastic. Front suspension bushing is for upper arm alignment, also same deal as rear upper arm position changes both camber gain and roll centre. Suspension holder is for kick up (pro dive is the correct naming). I believe tki4 9º of kick up to be better than 9º of kick up using the tki3 parts because you can run the car lower (26mm front ride height) and use the +2mm front shock tower if there's too much camber gain or it's stiff in roll. So use +2mm lowered roll centre to keep most stuff unchanged or use the bushings with the dot up to lower the roll centre a bit more, doesn't hurt anything. Front hub carrier, self explanatory. I am trying to use the out hole on top of the carrier as it is better during braking and accelerating. Together with the higher front roll centre on the tki4 should provide enough camber gain during cornering if not then more caster will do. Rear roll centre and anti squat(wrongly called skid angle). Again same thinking as the front, lower the car and keep roll centre in the same height as before(that will need a change in upper arm position which my setup does). Anti squat is changed only if the pitching motion causes too much camber to be gained by the rear tires on power, nothing more. Front knuckle, apparently there's a difference in the Ackerman arm. Can't say anything about them as I don't know enough about both. Rear hub carrier,there is one made of plastic (which doesn't have offset apparently so it's suited to long arm setting) and three aluminium versions. One similar to the plastic one, other with offset and a new one with offset and adjustable hub height. Rear tread can be used as arm length and outboard toe(never seen it being used but the possibility is there). Longer is better most of the time (only on really low traction). Chassis brace, wheel hub, sway bars and weight are self explanatory. No need to use weights nor other hubs. A couple of roll bars would be a nice addition. About the aluminium braces I am torn, I guess the car doesn't need flex with this setup but won't recommend the stiffer braces but the lower engine mount is very nice to deal with flex around the clutch. Wing and wing stay are like the d81x had regarding height and position. The wing should be as low and have free airflow as possible. 
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11-20-2017, 06:35 PM
#2101
Hi guys,
Novice racer here, keen to try the TKI4 setup at the top of this thread(the Wiki one) on my spare buggy to compare to my current setup.
My questions is, What settings do I use where the setup sheet is not filled in?
Novice racer here, keen to try the TKI4 setup at the top of this thread(the Wiki one) on my spare buggy to compare to my current setup.
My questions is, What settings do I use where the setup sheet is not filled in?
11-21-2017, 03:33 AM
#2103
Great! I will keep a look out for the complete setup sheet. Currently running a Tebo setup(which is all I have ever ran with minor tweaks). Might be a couple of weeks before I can run the two cars back to back, I will diffidently report back to give Novice drivers perspective
11-21-2017, 06:57 AM
#2104
Thanks, appreciate it.
This is the complete setup, is just me or there isn't a place to put which kick up one is running? Mine is the A plate pills dot up (9º).
About the setup, the 2.6mm front roll bar might not be needed (used to give more turn in and keep front tire wear better balanced R-L), for ride height it's imperative arms level, if 28mm RH gives you level arms then do it. I'm also eager to find if 13º hubs have enough adjustment to keep you all from buying more hubs, don't forget to add 1mm shim under the pivot ball on the steering arm if you run -1 caster bushing. Orange rear springs have a better balance than light blue all round, maybe grey fronts and light blue rears if you want a stiffer car all round, so the balance is softer=light blue front and orange rear, stiffer=grey front and light blue rear. Which one you use will depend on the temperature of the tires, stiffer for more heat into tires and vice versa.
Whoever uses TKI3 knuckles is a rotten egg. TKI4 arms have the steering arm further into the wheel so the linkage has better geometry during racing conditions.
Almost forgot, doesn't matter if TKI3 or TKI4, 9º of kick up for medium traction tracks, 11º for very low and 7º for high grip.
Ask away.
This is the complete setup, is just me or there isn't a place to put which kick up one is running? Mine is the A plate pills dot up (9º).
About the setup, the 2.6mm front roll bar might not be needed (used to give more turn in and keep front tire wear better balanced R-L), for ride height it's imperative arms level, if 28mm RH gives you level arms then do it. I'm also eager to find if 13º hubs have enough adjustment to keep you all from buying more hubs, don't forget to add 1mm shim under the pivot ball on the steering arm if you run -1 caster bushing. Orange rear springs have a better balance than light blue all round, maybe grey fronts and light blue rears if you want a stiffer car all round, so the balance is softer=light blue front and orange rear, stiffer=grey front and light blue rear. Which one you use will depend on the temperature of the tires, stiffer for more heat into tires and vice versa.
Whoever uses TKI3 knuckles is a rotten egg. TKI4 arms have the steering arm further into the wheel so the linkage has better geometry during racing conditions.
Almost forgot, doesn't matter if TKI3 or TKI4, 9º of kick up for medium traction tracks, 11º for very low and 7º for high grip.
Ask away.
11-21-2017, 02:31 PM
#2105
Tech Rookie
Thanks, appreciate it.
This is the complete setup, is just me or there isn't a place to put which kick up one is running? Mine is the A plate pills dot up (9º).
About the setup, the 2.6mm front roll bar might not be needed (used to give more turn in and keep front tire wear better balanced R-L), for ride height it's imperative arms level, if 28mm RH gives you level arms then do it. I'm also eager to find if 13º hubs have enough adjustment to keep you all from buying more hubs, don't forget to add 1mm shim under the pivot ball on the steering arm if you run -1 caster bushing. Orange rear springs have a better balance than light blue all round, maybe grey fronts and light blue rears if you want a stiffer car all round, so the balance is softer=light blue front and orange rear, stiffer=grey front and light blue rear. Which one you use will depend on the temperature of the tires, stiffer for more heat into tires and vice versa.
Whoever uses TKI3 knuckles is a rotten egg. TKI4 arms have the steering arm further into the wheel so the linkage has better geometry during racing conditions.
Almost forgot, doesn't matter if TKI3 or TKI4, 9º of kick up for medium traction tracks, 11º for very low and 7º for high grip.
Ask away.
This is the complete setup, is just me or there isn't a place to put which kick up one is running? Mine is the A plate pills dot up (9º).
About the setup, the 2.6mm front roll bar might not be needed (used to give more turn in and keep front tire wear better balanced R-L), for ride height it's imperative arms level, if 28mm RH gives you level arms then do it. I'm also eager to find if 13º hubs have enough adjustment to keep you all from buying more hubs, don't forget to add 1mm shim under the pivot ball on the steering arm if you run -1 caster bushing. Orange rear springs have a better balance than light blue all round, maybe grey fronts and light blue rears if you want a stiffer car all round, so the balance is softer=light blue front and orange rear, stiffer=grey front and light blue rear. Which one you use will depend on the temperature of the tires, stiffer for more heat into tires and vice versa.
Whoever uses TKI3 knuckles is a rotten egg. TKI4 arms have the steering arm further into the wheel so the linkage has better geometry during racing conditions.
Almost forgot, doesn't matter if TKI3 or TKI4, 9º of kick up for medium traction tracks, 11º for very low and 7º for high grip.
Ask away.
Kick up is set on the "Lower", "front side" on the setup. I don't know why would you run less kick up on high grip, 11º gives me the best feeling at most conditions.
Tki3 nuckles give a better ackermann feeling, for me at least.
On low grip try the long grey spring on front and orange spring on the rear, that's what I always run.
Is anyone interested on my high grip and also low grip setups? They differ kinda a lot from 30tooth's setup. I can share them if you want.
Edit: The toe and the wheelbase settings on your setup is pure madness to me.
Last edited by Joonas; 11-21-2017 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Added more info
11-21-2017, 03:21 PM
#2106
Kick up is set on the "Lower", "front side" on the setup. I don't know why would you run less kick up on high grip, 11º gives me the best feeling at most conditions.
Tki3 nuckles give a better ackermann feeling, for me at least.
On low grip try the long grey spring on front and orange spring on the rear, that's what I always run.
Is anyone interested on my high grip and also low grip setups? They differ kinda a lot from 30tooth's setup. I can share them if you want.
Edit: The toe and the wheelbase settings on your setup is pure madness to me.
Tki3 nuckles give a better ackermann feeling, for me at least.
On low grip try the long grey spring on front and orange spring on the rear, that's what I always run.
Is anyone interested on my high grip and also low grip setups? They differ kinda a lot from 30tooth's setup. I can share them if you want.
Edit: The toe and the wheelbase settings on your setup is pure madness to me.
i appreciate 30tooth efforts but dont always agree with his setups having tried them
11-21-2017, 04:47 PM
#2107
Kick up is set on the "Lower", "front side" on the setup. I don't know why would you run less kick up on high grip, 11º gives me the best feeling at most conditions.
Tki3 nuckles give a better ackermann feeling, for me at least.
On low grip try the long grey spring on front and orange spring on the rear, that's what I always run.
Is anyone interested on my high grip and also low grip setups? They differ kinda a lot from 30tooth's setup. I can share them if you want.
Edit: The toe and the wheelbase settings on your setup is pure madness to me.
Tki3 nuckles give a better ackermann feeling, for me at least.
On low grip try the long grey spring on front and orange spring on the rear, that's what I always run.
Is anyone interested on my high grip and also low grip setups? They differ kinda a lot from 30tooth's setup. I can share them if you want.
Edit: The toe and the wheelbase settings on your setup is pure madness to me.
The amount of kick up is directly related to the amount of pitch you want, more kick up more pitching. Pitching is good, that means the front is low to the ground during off power, increasing turn in. The real issue is that with increasing grip that pitching becomes too much and transfers even more weight to the front, off loading the rear and overloading the front. That's against the intent of this method, high travel low roll.
They should, the old knuckles are more aggressive in Ackerman steering. The TKI4 knuckles are less aggressive and that allows me to setup the car around less static toe front and rear (more free rolling). Speaking of that, once I found that stiffer rear end in roll provides more grip than static toe all my cars now run less rear toe (JQ,XB9,MP7.5,MP9, the Mugens), it works for me and I had others drive my cars without much complaints.
As I have weighted the car and have almost real rates of the springs those are the combos I live by, please give your low grip setup with thicker front bar than rear instead of those springs a try, see if it works for you.
I'm interested in the setups, don't be shy.
There's only two gentlemen (both at extreme temperatures, one is a top Swedish guy and you) that relayed negative feedback from my setups. In hindsight I should increase front shock oil to 600cps or recommending the middle holes on the steering plate to gain a more supported front end as I think that's the culprit. Can you specify what are your issues when you try the setup I developed? Thanks for recognizing my work.
11-21-2017, 05:23 PM
#2108
I'm tempted to buy a Spec-A. Has anyone bought one and can comment on quality of the build etc.?
thanks
thanks
11-22-2017, 11:35 AM
#2110
Tech Rookie
Ah I see now. Disregard as I'm very tired. Allow me explain my setup methodology.
The amount of kick up is directly related to the amount of pitch you want, more kick up more pitching. Pitching is good, that means the front is low to the ground during off power, increasing turn in. The real issue is that with increasing grip that pitching becomes too much and transfers even more weight to the front, off loading the rear and overloading the front. That's against the intent of this method, high travel low roll.
They should, the old knuckles are more aggressive in Ackerman steering. The TKI4 knuckles are less aggressive and that allows me to setup the car around less static toe front and rear (more free rolling). Speaking of that, once I found that stiffer rear end in roll provides more grip than static toe all my cars now run less rear toe (JQ,XB9,MP7.5,MP9, the Mugens), it works for me and I had others drive my cars without much complaints.
As I have weighted the car and have almost real rates of the springs those are the combos I live by, please give your low grip setup with thicker front bar than rear instead of those springs a try, see if it works for you.
I'm interested in the setups, don't be shy.
The amount of kick up is directly related to the amount of pitch you want, more kick up more pitching. Pitching is good, that means the front is low to the ground during off power, increasing turn in. The real issue is that with increasing grip that pitching becomes too much and transfers even more weight to the front, off loading the rear and overloading the front. That's against the intent of this method, high travel low roll.
They should, the old knuckles are more aggressive in Ackerman steering. The TKI4 knuckles are less aggressive and that allows me to setup the car around less static toe front and rear (more free rolling). Speaking of that, once I found that stiffer rear end in roll provides more grip than static toe all my cars now run less rear toe (JQ,XB9,MP7.5,MP9, the Mugens), it works for me and I had others drive my cars without much complaints.
As I have weighted the car and have almost real rates of the springs those are the combos I live by, please give your low grip setup with thicker front bar than rear instead of those springs a try, see if it works for you.
I'm interested in the setups, don't be shy.
I agree, older nuckles are more agressive, but they also give a better steering response. I see a point with the decreased rear toe, but it doesn't suit me and many others in my experience. I can't currently test your theory on low grip, but I just told which works the best for me. Im my opinion rear swaybar can't ever be thinner than the front one.
This is my low grip setup. I'd like to explain a few things, but feel free to ask anything.
Diffs: Front diff I usually use 5k-7k depending on how much steering or forward drive I need. Center diff is pretty self-explanatory, Usually I'll use 6k or 7k, 5k feels too soft everywhere. Rear diff: this is different, because I feel like a higher oil makes the rear have a lot more forward drive, but it helps to do 180° corners , by having more steering in the middle of the corner. It makes accelerating out of the corner much easier too.
Shocks: The front piston is the stock one (1.55) drilled to 1.6. This gives me the best feeling on the front end, but you need to run stiff oil in it. 800 is good for 15 ° C, then if needed I run even stiffer oil (1k). Rear pistons are pretty much what everyone else runs, but the oil is supposed to be like 500 not 600.
Toe: front is considered as "stock" and rear too.
Wheelbase: 1mm in the front gives the car better turn in in 180°, but takes away forward drive. 2 mm in the front is what I run every else, if it's not too high grip. More mm in the front makes the car a bit more stable.
Everything else is in a way considered "stock", but I like to run 17° caster and the higher front link, because our tracks are usually bumpy.
11-22-2017, 11:51 AM
#2111
Tech Rookie
This is what I currently run, on super high grip smooth concrete.
Diffs: 15k-20k-10k currently feels like a solid choice, although the center diff should be thicker. Maybe even 50k. Rear diff could be higher, but the track has some parts where the is more slippy concrete, so thicker oil makes the rear unstable at those parts.
Shocks: same piston as in low grip, but much thicker oil.
Wheelbase: more mm in front to get more forward drive.
Rear link: Longer link gives more stability and the middle hole takes away rear grip, compared to the lower hole.
Anti-squat: More is better on high grip.
Sway bars: Just because of the grip, Sway bars are thicker, but I don't like the front one too thick (2.8). I'll have to test the new 2.7 once I get my hands on one.
Otherwise same as the low grip setup.
Diffs: 15k-20k-10k currently feels like a solid choice, although the center diff should be thicker. Maybe even 50k. Rear diff could be higher, but the track has some parts where the is more slippy concrete, so thicker oil makes the rear unstable at those parts.
Shocks: same piston as in low grip, but much thicker oil.
Wheelbase: more mm in front to get more forward drive.
Rear link: Longer link gives more stability and the middle hole takes away rear grip, compared to the lower hole.
Anti-squat: More is better on high grip.
Sway bars: Just because of the grip, Sway bars are thicker, but I don't like the front one too thick (2.8). I'll have to test the new 2.7 once I get my hands on one.
Otherwise same as the low grip setup.
11-22-2017, 03:36 PM
#2112
Add them to the wiki please.
About the kick up and B plate pills, do you have them that way or it's a mistake? Why the big difference in piston hole sizes?
Once I have more time I will give your low grip setup a try, it doesn't stray far away from the TKI3 Spec A setup which I have tested thoroughly.
About the kick up and B plate pills, do you have them that way or it's a mistake? Why the big difference in piston hole sizes?
Once I have more time I will give your low grip setup a try, it doesn't stray far away from the TKI3 Spec A setup which I have tested thoroughly.
11-22-2017, 09:57 PM
#2114
Tech Rookie
Add them to the wiki please.
About the kick up and B plate pills, do you have them that way or it's a mistake? Why the big difference in piston hole sizes?
Once I have more time I will give your low grip setup a try, it doesn't stray far away from the TKI3 Spec A setup which I have tested thoroughly.
About the kick up and B plate pills, do you have them that way or it's a mistake? Why the big difference in piston hole sizes?
Once I have more time I will give your low grip setup a try, it doesn't stray far away from the TKI3 Spec A setup which I have tested thoroughly.
I use arm sweep (pill outside) at most tracks, which adds more steering.
I liked the 1.5X5 hole in the rear too, but it can't handle bumps at all. So I just switched to what I ran before on the rear. I previously only ran 1.3X8 all around, with 650-450 oils.
I have tested every change from this setup at our local tracks multiple times and it's what was best at the end of summer.
You can't really a say any setup works at a certain track, because there are always going to be differences, but this my "base-line".
I can't edit the wiki, because this is a brand new account, I would need 90 days and 90 replies...
11-22-2017, 10:01 PM
#2115
Tech Rookie
When I generally need more steering and the track is flat enough, I just go down on the caster to 14 degrees (13+1) normally I'll use either 15 or 17. Caster isn't something that you need to really compensate with other things. Just like many other things, compensation is more like cancelling the change you are making. If the caster changes the feeling too much, a thicker front sway-bar makes the front of the car more stable.