1LikesNitro Pitting / Shortage of HELP
10-30-2012, 04:10 PM
#31
In some cases,
I have suggested during qualifyers that a marshall can also be your pit guy at his/her designated spot just for fuel only no repairs, if you break like any racer you just walk off drivers stand.
Also applies for the Main which are not as much but for club racing its does work ok.
Usually we mix them both, based on how long E-buggies like to run usually up to 12 mins for A Main and to make it fair we ask the E-buggies to do a stop and go some where on the track during the race which is about a 1-3 sec stop depending what nitro guys pit at which is once for a 12 mins Main.
Now for more entires based on turn out, I seen clubs have it where E-Buggy marshalls E-Buggy, S/C for S/C and Nitro for Nitro, the director just needs to write down on the heat sheet as to who is marshalling what race # with a big red marker plus one for director as you call out who not out there to marshall for that given race.
I have suggested during qualifyers that a marshall can also be your pit guy at his/her designated spot just for fuel only no repairs, if you break like any racer you just walk off drivers stand.
Also applies for the Main which are not as much but for club racing its does work ok.
Usually we mix them both, based on how long E-buggies like to run usually up to 12 mins for A Main and to make it fair we ask the E-buggies to do a stop and go some where on the track during the race which is about a 1-3 sec stop depending what nitro guys pit at which is once for a 12 mins Main.
Now for more entires based on turn out, I seen clubs have it where E-Buggy marshalls E-Buggy, S/C for S/C and Nitro for Nitro, the director just needs to write down on the heat sheet as to who is marshalling what race # with a big red marker plus one for director as you call out who not out there to marshall for that given race.
Last edited by Roy G; 10-30-2012 at 05:22 PM.
10-30-2012, 05:53 PM
#33
Ironically the places I've been to that have really shady/bad environment for nitros (no one wants to help pit, go and spot nitros, etc), the RD was an electric guy. Not generalize all RD's that are electric guys, as I'm sure there are probably awesome RD's that are electric-only, but it seems like some of the bad-apple electric guys usually go hand-in-hand with the problem.
The real reason? Half of them could never learn to tune an engine/have a reliable nitro before getting frustrated and going back to electric only or quitting the hobby. The other half are just bitter guys that think they're owed something in life and shouldn't have to mess with nitro.
If it's a club race, in most local club races here in America, nitro and electric are probably mixed.... so how would that even work? 
I guess just make the mains like 30 minutes so the electric guys have to swap a couple batteries. That'll make it fair. 
The real reason? Half of them could never learn to tune an engine/have a reliable nitro before getting frustrated and going back to electric only or quitting the hobby. The other half are just bitter guys that think they're owed something in life and shouldn't have to mess with nitro.
I guess just make the mains like 30 minutes so the electric guys have to swap a couple batteries. That'll make it fair.
10-30-2012, 05:58 PM
#34
Ironically the places I've been to that have really shady/bad environment for nitros (no one wants to help pit, go and spot nitros, etc), the RD was an electric guy. Not generalize all RD's that are electric guys, as I'm sure there are probably awesome RD's that are electric-only, but it seems like some of the bad-apple electric guys usually go hand-in-hand with the problem.
The real reason? Half of them could never learn to tune an engine/have a reliable nitro before getting frustrated and going back to electric only or quitting the hobby. The other half are just bitter guys that think they're owed something in life and shouldn't have to mess with nitro.
If it's a club race, in most local club races here in America, nitro and electric are probably mixed.... so how would that even work? I guess just make the mains like 30 minutes so the electric guys have to swap a couple batteries. That'll make it fair.
The real reason? Half of them could never learn to tune an engine/have a reliable nitro before getting frustrated and going back to electric only or quitting the hobby. The other half are just bitter guys that think they're owed something in life and shouldn't have to mess with nitro.
If it's a club race, in most local club races here in America, nitro and electric are probably mixed.... so how would that even work?
I guess just make the mains like 30 minutes so the electric guys have to swap a couple batteries. That'll make it fair.
10-30-2012, 07:21 PM
#35
Everyone needs to help each other out but I definitely know from experience it does work out that simple. We race for a reason to get away and to be competitive some take it to the next level but it's a sport of bonding and sharing experience.
I'm just worried caused guys are moving into electric I'm guilty, I enjoy both tremendously but E is a lot easier. I can show up at a race while not asking for help hoping I find someone or seeing others stuck. I cannot count the times were I went out to pickup someone nitro cause he was going back and forth because he didn't have some fueling or one guy was fueling two cars pickup both is a safety issue while Marshalls are standing not doing anything. then the director then needs to scream for help and people pause it should be automatic.
I have a few good suggestion for our next race, thanks Guys and I hope as others read please go out and help your nitro brother it would mean a lot he/she wouldn't definitely appreciate your doings.
I'm just worried caused guys are moving into electric I'm guilty, I enjoy both tremendously but E is a lot easier. I can show up at a race while not asking for help hoping I find someone or seeing others stuck. I cannot count the times were I went out to pickup someone nitro cause he was going back and forth because he didn't have some fueling or one guy was fueling two cars pickup both is a safety issue while Marshalls are standing not doing anything. then the director then needs to scream for help and people pause it should be automatic.
I have a few good suggestion for our next race, thanks Guys and I hope as others read please go out and help your nitro brother it would mean a lot he/she wouldn't definitely appreciate your doings.
10-31-2012, 04:42 AM
#36
There are reasons why so many new nitro racers fail at tuning. Terrible RC Tech advice is one.
-we got custom engine builders that insist that hackjob modified Novarossi's are easy to tune. BS.
-we got a thousand newbs insiting that thier rtr engine is easy to tune and everyone should go cheap and get one
-bad glow plug advice
-then noone ever mentions clutch, fuel line, fuel tank bubbles etc for troubleshooting.
-piss poor break in advice
-people that try tuning a broken car, broken engine, broken clutch.
If you can't tune an OS 21XZB with a P3 & 2090, then there is something seriously wrong with you. Screw all the odd ball "engine of the week companies". Start with something easy. Any newb can get the XZB to 10+min. Avoid the hard to tune, hard to break in engines until your a pro.
No reason at all to need a pit guy for quals. Drop your car, climb the stand, if your car isn't still happy idling away on the ground by the time you get up the stand. Then you got some problems that needs fixed/tuned.
No need to fuel up after warm up laps, just take it easy on the straights during the warm up laps to conserve fuel.
10-31-2012, 06:33 AM
#37
Well my nitro experience has just about scarred me for life. I don't think i'll be going back anytime soon. If there is better out there, i just won't know now. Even if the engines are better and easier to tune than the one i currently own, i just can't justify spending 300-350 for a good race motor and then find out i don't like how it runs. Plug and play is something i know how it works.
10-31-2012, 09:30 AM
#38
That's too bad. Maybe in the future.
Nitro really isn't the "go to" car for me, in my area. Even though it's my favorite. I save it only for big races and run my cheaper electrics.
But my nitro is ironicly far more reliable than my electrics have been. It's a learning curve, glad I'm past all of that and can finally concentrate on racing, not tuneing.
Nitro really isn't the "go to" car for me, in my area. Even though it's my favorite. I save it only for big races and run my cheaper electrics.
But my nitro is ironicly far more reliable than my electrics have been. It's a learning curve, glad I'm past all of that and can finally concentrate on racing, not tuneing.
10-31-2012, 10:11 AM
#40
Well my nitro experience has just about scarred me for life. I don't think i'll be going back anytime soon. If there is better out there, i just won't know now. Even if the engines are better and easier to tune than the one i currently own, i just can't justify spending 300-350 for a good race motor and then find out i don't like how it runs. Plug and play is something i know how it works.
10-31-2012, 12:21 PM
#41
Well my nitro experience has just about scarred me for life. I don't think i'll be going back anytime soon. If there is better out there, i just won't know now. Even if the engines are better and easier to tune than the one i currently own, i just can't justify spending 300-350 for a good race motor and then find out i don't like how it runs. Plug and play is something i know how it works.
Originally Posted by Zerodefect
-we got custom engine builders that insist that hackjob modified Novarossi's are easy to tune. BS.
10-31-2012, 12:36 PM
#42
well to me sounds like everyone is complaining...????
the NITRO WHINERS.......
well i race Nitro...but sound like bitter people?
sure we would all like to just show up in life with no Problems......
sure we would like to just show up at a "Track" and just think of ourselves..!
and many do......
to say people have a problem with something..?? not a good way to encourage people....
lets think of it like this...
if your getting into the hobby where is it said, because someone runs "Nitro"
someone else "HAS TO HELP"......????
there should never be an Assumption just because you run a specific class
the other people are Suposed to Help......????
if i was told that..?? human nature of people kick in telling themselves
what do i "Have To do"......????
being ask if they could and being told the need to are very different things?
there are 2 sides of every coin......
i am sure we are seeing the one side from the "Negitive points" and self absorbed points of view.......
and let's look at it like this ...a few would say it is not the same thing?
but very much "IS".....
if i was fuleing my real car and seen a guy at the pump across from me?
and i walked up and said hey i paid for my gas "Fuel my Car".....
guess what his reaction will be...!!!!!!!!
fuel your own G** Dam car A** H*** !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
electric guys whine? Nitro Guys i have noticed over the years Whine LOUDER!
they dont have this they dont have that,no one does this no one does that?
the car doesnt drive it self to make me a world champion...etc.
wow no wonder people go to electric?
then being told they dont know how to tune car they have problems...??
not good.....
alll motors are great......
but to spend 500.00 yea i can understand the point of someone being Jaded?
all the what if's...???
do not care who you are i have bank!
but it is still a lot to spend !!!
and you like Nitro but worried you may ruin a 500.00 motor !!!
yea i can "UNDERSTAND"..........
a better way would be to help educate those and help those that may need the help?
instead of telling them:
"yea the motor you got is a pile of crap,you should have gotten a ______"
yea, the fanboys came out fully "Educated in the sport"
"NO one ever taught them right"....?????
regardless of motor how bout helping !!!!!!!
point to people:
Fanboyz will always have there personal options to inject?
but never a real solution, i can respect what they say as everyone
gets frustrated? who doesnt..???
however, back to track....
race directors have a bit of dealing now with the Introduction of Electric 1/8
and for the most part is a good thing....helps get people more involved.
getting people to "Have to Pit" for other people there is a tricky ordeal?
lets look at it from another point of view?
say your fishing...??? your there to Relax be with family or alone?
casting your line and reading a book or getting your tackel box in order?
another Angeler comes and says:
hey buddy i gotta split watch my line for a few? and splits..????
your not there to watch or help him..??? your there to relax?
why are you sundenly Obligated to watch his stuff?
and what if you have to go?
your there on your time not for his time...???
however lets change a few things?
same senario.....
but the guy has sat and talked with you for a few or maybe an hour?
he mentions he forgot something and needed to go to the store
down the road then Ask's :
"Could you watch my line for a few while i run to the store? and could i get you anything while i am there".............
that be a whole different thing......
but if you put in the minds of people that if your already going to be
"Obligated" to help someone at the track? people may feel "Differently"
would you want to go to the track.......????
i like helping people !!!!!!!
but if i was told i had to..??? i might not go because i was "Told To"
unless as it was before part of my "Job" then i am getting paid....
then i LIKE being there !!! ...lol
no one asked or maybe thought of this?
maybe they do not feel comfortable helping with something there not
confident in doing for someone else?
face it the cars can be expensive, and people
Especialy NITRO GUYS!are FICKEL are about getting fuel all over there cars !!
most are "Primadonnas" heck half of them dont like there cars dirty !!!
because they have to clean them !!! (then go On-Road lol)
sad too cause i run Nitro !!!
but if i went to a track if i can't find someone to help...
guess what tough i dont race??
SIMPLE....
a sad "REALITY"......kinda goes with LIFE.....
or i "Offer to pay them for there time"
80% of the time i am rewarded with someone "Kind enough" to help...
Thats right...."Kind Enough to Help"
but i would not want to "Obligate someone to help" that is not right...
but i am in no Position to or should "Anyone" to demand someone help....
i know sounds like it is negitive to say this for the nitro guys?
but again where is it ever said because
"We Run Nitro" someone is SUPOSED to fuel us.......???????????
sure a low turnout would be tough? but blame it on the economy?
and the fact is electric is easier and somewhat less with places like
HobbyKing around !! why spend 200.00 on a battery from a local
"Price Jacker" when can get the same battery with the same Manufacture ID
stamp for 30.00........
90.00 for batteries and they last for longer than 3 gallons of fuel !!!
and who cares there in the hobby to have fun !!! everyone is in it to have fun!
not be Obligated to help service someone else just because it takes
2 people....not there fault someone needs 2 people to run a car????
i could go on.....but this just picks up a grain of sand from the "Planet"
goes way beyond tip of the Iceburge.....
Race directors i think have a bigger problem making sure turnmarshalls are there?
now that is a given!! you race you turnmarshall !!!
or you find someone !!!!!!!
here is one thing i notice?
Nitro guys are the first one to leave people "Hanging" for turnmarshalls !!!
maybe not in other areas? but sure is a problem in ours !!!!!
and something my kids just mentioned as he works at a track...
Nitro racers expect to be Helped,but never want to help.....????
and seems to be very true of this thread........
well hopefully at big jays track the race director can find a good common ground .........
the NITRO WHINERS.......
well i race Nitro...but sound like bitter people?
sure we would all like to just show up in life with no Problems......
sure we would like to just show up at a "Track" and just think of ourselves..!
and many do......
to say people have a problem with something..?? not a good way to encourage people....
lets think of it like this...
if your getting into the hobby where is it said, because someone runs "Nitro"
someone else "HAS TO HELP"......????
there should never be an Assumption just because you run a specific class
the other people are Suposed to Help......????
if i was told that..?? human nature of people kick in telling themselves
what do i "Have To do"......????
being ask if they could and being told the need to are very different things?
there are 2 sides of every coin......
i am sure we are seeing the one side from the "Negitive points" and self absorbed points of view.......
and let's look at it like this ...a few would say it is not the same thing?
but very much "IS".....
if i was fuleing my real car and seen a guy at the pump across from me?
and i walked up and said hey i paid for my gas "Fuel my Car".....
guess what his reaction will be...!!!!!!!!
fuel your own G** Dam car A** H*** !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
electric guys whine? Nitro Guys i have noticed over the years Whine LOUDER!
they dont have this they dont have that,no one does this no one does that?
the car doesnt drive it self to make me a world champion...etc.
wow no wonder people go to electric?
then being told they dont know how to tune car they have problems...??
not good.....
alll motors are great......
but to spend 500.00 yea i can understand the point of someone being Jaded?
all the what if's...???
do not care who you are i have bank!
but it is still a lot to spend !!!
and you like Nitro but worried you may ruin a 500.00 motor !!!
yea i can "UNDERSTAND"..........
a better way would be to help educate those and help those that may need the help?
instead of telling them:
"yea the motor you got is a pile of crap,you should have gotten a ______"
yea, the fanboys came out fully "Educated in the sport"
"NO one ever taught them right"....?????
regardless of motor how bout helping !!!!!!!
point to people:
Fanboyz will always have there personal options to inject?
but never a real solution, i can respect what they say as everyone
gets frustrated? who doesnt..???
however, back to track....
race directors have a bit of dealing now with the Introduction of Electric 1/8
and for the most part is a good thing....helps get people more involved.
getting people to "Have to Pit" for other people there is a tricky ordeal?
lets look at it from another point of view?
say your fishing...??? your there to Relax be with family or alone?
casting your line and reading a book or getting your tackel box in order?
another Angeler comes and says:
hey buddy i gotta split watch my line for a few? and splits..????
your not there to watch or help him..??? your there to relax?
why are you sundenly Obligated to watch his stuff?
and what if you have to go?
your there on your time not for his time...???
however lets change a few things?
same senario.....
but the guy has sat and talked with you for a few or maybe an hour?
he mentions he forgot something and needed to go to the store
down the road then Ask's :
"Could you watch my line for a few while i run to the store? and could i get you anything while i am there".............
that be a whole different thing......
but if you put in the minds of people that if your already going to be
"Obligated" to help someone at the track? people may feel "Differently"
would you want to go to the track.......????
i like helping people !!!!!!!
but if i was told i had to..??? i might not go because i was "Told To"
unless as it was before part of my "Job" then i am getting paid....
then i LIKE being there !!! ...lol
no one asked or maybe thought of this?
maybe they do not feel comfortable helping with something there not
confident in doing for someone else?
face it the cars can be expensive, and people
Especialy NITRO GUYS!are FICKEL are about getting fuel all over there cars !!
most are "Primadonnas" heck half of them dont like there cars dirty !!!
because they have to clean them !!! (then go On-Road lol)
sad too cause i run Nitro !!!
but if i went to a track if i can't find someone to help...
guess what tough i dont race??
SIMPLE....
a sad "REALITY"......kinda goes with LIFE.....
or i "Offer to pay them for there time"
80% of the time i am rewarded with someone "Kind enough" to help...
Thats right...."Kind Enough to Help"
but i would not want to "Obligate someone to help" that is not right...
but i am in no Position to or should "Anyone" to demand someone help....
i know sounds like it is negitive to say this for the nitro guys?
but again where is it ever said because
"We Run Nitro" someone is SUPOSED to fuel us.......???????????
sure a low turnout would be tough? but blame it on the economy?
and the fact is electric is easier and somewhat less with places like
HobbyKing around !! why spend 200.00 on a battery from a local
"Price Jacker" when can get the same battery with the same Manufacture ID
stamp for 30.00........
90.00 for batteries and they last for longer than 3 gallons of fuel !!!
and who cares there in the hobby to have fun !!! everyone is in it to have fun!
not be Obligated to help service someone else just because it takes
2 people....not there fault someone needs 2 people to run a car????
i could go on.....but this just picks up a grain of sand from the "Planet"
goes way beyond tip of the Iceburge.....
Race directors i think have a bigger problem making sure turnmarshalls are there?
now that is a given!! you race you turnmarshall !!!
or you find someone !!!!!!!
here is one thing i notice?
Nitro guys are the first one to leave people "Hanging" for turnmarshalls !!!
maybe not in other areas? but sure is a problem in ours !!!!!
and something my kids just mentioned as he works at a track...
Nitro racers expect to be Helped,but never want to help.....????
and seems to be very true of this thread........
well hopefully at big jays track the race director can find a good common ground .........
10-31-2012, 12:50 PM
#43
Your making alot of generalizations about people you've never met. Please be more specific, is it just the nitro guys at that track?.
Noones forcing anyone to do anything. The experienced guys make sure thier "clique" is there to pit for them.
When you see a newb struggling with the sport, lend him a frigging hand. Is it really going to kill you to help someone for once? Real nice guy you are!
When you race you should be ashamed of yourself if you're too self rightous to step down to help someone new. Whole club should be ashamed of this. I have no problem with people that are too good to volunteer to marshal or pit not ever coming back. Those kind of racers are no fun at all.
One of the things I hate is when RD's get miffed because a pit guy for the main is supposed to be marshaling. Who cares. We don't need 10 marshals. Everyones on the same track anyways. Quit crashing you hacks!
I really prefer large tracks with less marshals. You shouldn't be able to cartwheel past someone, get marshaled, and take the lead all at the same time. If you crash, then you deserve the 10second timeout that it takes for the marshal to get there. I really don't like RD's that slow down a long race day just to beg for an extra marshal, that they really don't even need.
It's really becoming a problem. If you're an RD you need to relax and understand that it isn't very nice to split up a "team" because one of them ran the previous heat and should be marshalling not pitting.
Also I'm sticking to my guns on mod engines. I'm sure H deos a fine job and his engines are fine. But a ton of the engine advice I got here was terrible. And it really set me back a year or two. There are setups out there that are just plain easier to tune than other types of setups.
Noones forcing anyone to do anything. The experienced guys make sure thier "clique" is there to pit for them.
When you see a newb struggling with the sport, lend him a frigging hand. Is it really going to kill you to help someone for once? Real nice guy you are!When you race you should be ashamed of yourself if you're too self rightous to step down to help someone new. Whole club should be ashamed of this. I have no problem with people that are too good to volunteer to marshal or pit not ever coming back. Those kind of racers are no fun at all.
One of the things I hate is when RD's get miffed because a pit guy for the main is supposed to be marshaling. Who cares. We don't need 10 marshals. Everyones on the same track anyways. Quit crashing you hacks!
I really prefer large tracks with less marshals. You shouldn't be able to cartwheel past someone, get marshaled, and take the lead all at the same time. If you crash, then you deserve the 10second timeout that it takes for the marshal to get there. I really don't like RD's that slow down a long race day just to beg for an extra marshal, that they really don't even need.
It's really becoming a problem. If you're an RD you need to relax and understand that it isn't very nice to split up a "team" because one of them ran the previous heat and should be marshalling not pitting.
Also I'm sticking to my guns on mod engines. I'm sure H deos a fine job and his engines are fine. But a ton of the engine advice I got here was terrible. And it really set me back a year or two. There are setups out there that are just plain easier to tune than other types of setups.
Last edited by Zerodefect; 10-31-2012 at 01:14 PM.
10-31-2012, 01:07 PM
#44
Tech Addict
iTrader: (6)
Use to love racing and helping in Nitro classes until people started showing up with poorly tuned engines. No body should have to pit or marshall a car that won't idle causing driver to constantly be blipping throttle rendering the situation dangerous to the pitman or marshall. I dont care if one is on the lid about to drink its last drop of fuel in the line, if the driver is not on the brakes it will stay on its lid. Too many times i have reached for one and get my eyes filled with dirt from the idiot driver blipping the throttle. Too much inconsideration from the drivers has caused this shortage of help with the nitro classes. My 2 cents.
