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Old 10-04-2012, 10:38 AM   #1
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Default Nitro going forward

Hi everyone,

Thought i'd start a thread about nitro progression for the future.
I've started this hobby about 13yrs ago when electric( according to my knowledge ) was king, and after that I started again going Nitro on-road,
and then a few yrs later started again ( a lot of start and stopping the hobby lol ). Anyway when I started last yr, I wanted to go off-road, and naturally I thought Nitro, and found out electric is at the top of the hill again.

I dont want to start a Nitro vs Electric debate, I was just curios if there are any advancements being made to compete with these reigning electrics.
I'm a petrol head, even though I got a BL truggy, I loooove my Nitro Truggy way more, but I would like to kick some electric bee-hind someday. Does anyone have information about this? I've searched the web but couldn't find anything.

I mean how about a 2 pistonned engine, with twin turbos and nos injection, together with a lightened fly wheel? That sounds awesome!!! I think, and feel free to post some images of those nitro beauties.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:11 AM   #2
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Todays better .28's keep up with electrics fine and weigh less. Nitros still win when we combine the classes. The only disadvantage is at the start, if an electric is right behind you, expect them to fly right by.

If your races are only 7min for the lame electrics, then run some power!

What we need is a larger fuel tank so we can cheat and run .28's maxed out. Right now 1 fuel stop for the nitros is about equal to the electric guys haveing to slow down a little in the middle of an 11min race to make the time. If you set your main times to something wonky it can swing in one type of cars favor.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:17 AM   #3
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With racing the rules are preventing high costs. Making engines much faster does mean higher prices for the engines and a shorter lifespan.

Things like a compressor, high nitro comtent and advanced engine tuning can be found on the market to get te most out of it. With some rebuilding a dual engine setup with .28 engines and large pinions kan make every car fast.
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:08 PM   #4
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I think gasoline will become the focus. Unless the nitro manufactures collude to topple the idea.


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Old 10-04-2012, 12:54 PM   #5
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Nice looking NITRO truggy!
Costs are definitely a factor in this hobby
Just would like to see some advancements for nitro's to go faster, or at least perform better. I know nitro has come a long way, but the setup hasn't really changed that much, unless I'm mistaken. I totally agree with bigger fuel tanks!! That would be awesome! At least its good to hear that an electric can be defeated in a race ( luckily I went with the 28 ), but I'm guessing you have to be gooood to do that.
One positive to the electrics though, they bring more ppl to the hobby, always a good thing.

Does getting a bigger air filter help performance in any way?
Never raced nitro's b4 and can't wait to do so!
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:08 PM   #6
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If the techlogy gets better into making gas engines lighter for 1/8 scales and at a decent price i will think about going back running something that runs on gas. If not its electric for me for a while.

Im not going to start a nitro vs electric thing but on a big track with a fast layout the lap times and laps are the samething .
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:15 PM   #7
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The incessant desire for something new can be a nuissance and waste of energy and time. I ran a five-year old LST2 last weekend, with a stock Losi 454 engine, and had a blast.

It's a hobby.

Most people can barely get the maximum power out of the engines they already have(myself included). Most .21 engines are actually overpowered for racing - the trick is to reduce or tame the power. That however does not mean that nitro engines should be made "easier". It's a hobby, and should entail a learning curve. Real hobbyists I think don't care how childishly simplistic plug-and-play electric supposedly is. No matter how you spin it afaic, brushless is still like watching paint dry.

Long live nitro. Even if next year I have to run an RTR .28. I'll have fun with it.

It's a hobby.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:15 PM   #8
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The incessant desire for something new can be a nuissance and waste of energy and time. I ran a five-year old LST2 last weekend, with a stock Losi 454 engine, and had a blast.

It's a hobby.

Most people can barely get the maximum power out of the engines they already have(myself included). Most .21 engines are actually overpowered for racing - the trick is to reduce or tame the power. That however does not mean that nitro engines should be made "easier". It's a hobby, and should entail a learning curve. Real hobbyists I think don't care how childishly simplistic plug-and-play electric supposedly is. No matter how you spin it afaic, brushless is still like watching paint dry.

Long live nitro. Even if next year I have to run an RTR .28. I'll have fun with it.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herrsavage View Post
The incessant desire for something new can be a nuissance and waste of energy and time. I ran a five-year old LST2 last weekend, with a stock Losi 454 engine, and had a blast.

It's a hobby.

Most people can barely get the maximum power out of the engines they already have(myself included). Most .21 engines are actually overpowered for racing - the trick is to reduce or tame the power. That however does not mean that nitro engines should be made "easier". It's a hobby, and should entail a learning curve. Real hobbyists I think don't care how childishly simplistic plug-and-play electric supposedly is. No matter how you spin it afaic, brushless is still like watching paint dry.

Long live nitro. Even if next year I have to run an RTR .28. I'll have fun with it.




I respect your opinion but do we need to start this again about because you run electric its not a hobby its for the lazy etc.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inpuressa View Post
I think gasoline will become the focus. Unless the nitro manufactures collude to topple the idea.


I just made the jump to Gas 1/5th scale with a Losi 5ive. I think 5th scale is going to boom big, at least for the racers that travel 4-5 times a season.

It's a fun feeling to be a rookie in a racing class again. It's also sweet to have that curious learning experience with a new type of RC. So far as I'm learning, gas engines appear to be much cheaper to run and repair/build. 30cc Pro-light long blocks are around $300. Less than a decent nitro engine.

I'd like to try a gas truggy, but with the right equipment, nitro truggy is a breeze. If you can't tune an OS.28XZ, you ain't going to be able to tune a gasser either. Shoot, the .28XZ is easier to tune than a Tekin RX8 esc!. And I don't see why that truggy can't have a bump start. Weight savings allready if they lose the pull start.

And that truggy pic is just a mock up. Those springs can barely hold up and electric D8 conversion, so I'd imaginthat that heavy engine is about the same.

My nitros do feel a little tame compared to my electrics. But my electric nuke in mains longer than 10min. And my nitros are setup for fuel economy with 11-12min runs per tank.

With a bigger nitro tank I could pull my restrictor and really give the electrics a run for the money. Proline, RPM, and other aftermarket plastic companies are missing a serious market opportunity with "cheater" fuel tanks.

Last edited by Zerodefect; 10-04-2012 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 02:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerodefect View Post
Proline, RPM, and other aftermarket plastic companies are missing a serious market opportunity with "cheater" fuel tanks.
There's really no market there. Bashers don't care about having to fill their tanks every 8 minutes and most RTR/beginner buggies already have 150cc tanks anyway.

I think if people wanted 'cheater' tanks with their buggy, they could just put the truggy equivalent into their cars (I.E. - D8T tank in D8, etc). There's really no room to go much larger in most race buggies as it is, just taller... and that would cause issues with body clearance.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:55 PM   #12
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There's really no market there. Bashers don't care about having to fill their tanks every 8 minutes and most RTR/beginner buggies already have 150cc tanks anyway.

I think if people wanted 'cheater' tanks with their buggy, they could just put the truggy equivalent into their cars (I.E. - D8T tank in D8, etc). There's really no room to go much larger in most race buggies as it is, just taller... and that would cause issues with body clearance.
I'm talking racing, not bashing.

Club racing with E and N lumped together is considered an "Open" class. No fuel tank or engine rules. Tons of fun. AE's truggy tank fit the buggy. So do the big blocks.

Plenty of room in a buggy for more fuel. The top of the tank can have a blob that extends overtop the center drive shaft. Likely enough room for 50+ cc's of fuel.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerodefect View Post
I'm talking racing, not bashing.

Club racing with E and N lumped together is considered an "Open" class. No fuel tank or engine rules. Tons of fun. AE's truggy tank fit the buggy. So do the big blocks.

Plenty of room in a buggy for more fuel. The top of the tank can have a blob that extends overtop the center drive shaft. Likely enough room for 50+ cc's of fuel.
99.9% of the places and series I race have a maximum fuel capacity of 125CC for buggy and 150CC for truggy. Thats counting tank and fuel line.....
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:23 PM   #14
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I firmly believe that on any given track surface, there is only a certain amount of speed that can be obtained on a consistent basis. Racing on the style of tracks we do, power is not the most important factor. Power where you need it can be changed in many ways through pipe, clutch springs and gearing.
Learning throttle control and timing are the most important things a guy can learn regardless of class, or scale.
Intial startup cost is rather expensive regardless of what you choose and electric is still the money hog. Nitro is now the cheaper class to get started in and for the most part if you know what you're doing it's far more rewarding simply to over come the many varibles that factor into it.

5th scale could become popular but for the most part will only appeal to a certain amount of people. The cost isn't for the weak and a good solid track out from certain public areas is a must because the noise only adds to the restraints we are seeing from the nitro class.
In some areas of the country it can grow but I can't forsee it taking over main stream.
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Old 10-04-2012, 04:24 PM   #15
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Naw, 5th scale ain't taking over anything.

But I'll bet my XB9 that we'll see more and more 1/5th only large events. It's a class of racing that requires some travel and prep. Not as go lucky as 1/8th scale.

Think about it, the 5ive is really the first nice 1/5th scale. The HPI's are ok, but the 5ive is on a whole new plateau. I think that's going to bring in some fresh racers. Especially since nitro is $40+ a gallon with very expensive engines ($350+ per season).

My buggies never been tech'd. Fairly certain I'm around 130cc!
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