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Old 06-25-2012, 11:48 AM   #1
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Questions?? Question on rough driving....

I do not want to ask this to start a flame war. It is so I can obtain a general consensus as to how rules should be applied.

Top level pro race (just to be clear... ROAR Nats). Should the second place driver have a legitimate complaint about the last corner contact?

Fact. Phend never got into Ty on the last lap and even brake checked so he would not take him out coming out of the rhythm section.

In the last corner Phend clearly put his whole car in front of Ty and was under control.
Ty was under control as well.

Question - Does Ty have the right to punch Phend off the line and take the win?

The way I see it, it really does not matter if Ty did it intentional or not. The fact is Phend was under control and in the corner.

It is not a flame war. It is just a question.

With that being said... What a race!
The video is on Neo Buggy.
If someone could get a link that works it would be nice.
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Last edited by tex1; 06-25-2012 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:02 PM   #2
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I watched it several times, the way I see it, Phend cut in front, causing the contact. Tessman was already in his line and had momentum. I see good, clean competitive racing there!
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:17 PM   #3
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As far as I know, during the entire event, there were no drive thru penalties handed out. Sort of hard to believe with 280+ entries.

In one of the Qualifiers, one driver nerfed another off the track. Then he waited for the him (good sportsmanship). But as the offended vehicle came up, he knocked him off the track again (no penalty). ROAR rarely, if ever, hands out rough driving penalties. They don't enforce like IFMAR. I've seen this at most of the big races.

At the last Worlds, Hara did just about the same thing (maybe less) to Tebo and got a drive thru, go figure.

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Old 06-25-2012, 12:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tex1 View Post
I do not want to ask this to start a flame war. It is so I can obtain a general consensus as to how rules should be applied.

Top level pro race (just to be clear... ROAR Nats). Should the second place driver have a legitimate complaint about the last corner contact?

Fact. Phend never got into Ty on the last lap and even brake checked so he would not take him out coming out of the rhythm section.

In the last corner Phend clearly put his whole car in front of Ty and was under control.
Ty was under control as well.

Question - Does Ty have the right to punch Phend off the line and take the win?

The way I see it, it really does not matter if Ty did it intentional or not. The fact is Phend was under control and in the corner.

It is not a flame war. It is just a question.

With that being said... What a race!
TEX
Great question...

Some will state, 'rubbing is racing and it's part of the sport'. However, Ty's "bump" of Phend was similar to how I play Gran Turismo 5. I use the car in front of me for "brakes" or pushing them out of the way while maintaining the maximum amount of speed through a corner.

I'll have to watch again, but it looked like Phend was rolling through the corner, ON HIS LINE, when Ty bumped into him from behind, pushing him out of the turn/off the line and Ty was able to get through for the win.

I'm not saying this is what happened, or that Ty is a dirty driver, he's phenominal. Maybe Ty's brake point in that particular turn is later than Phend's, who knows. But the initial look, I admit that I said, "That's not right..!"

I believe in rules of the road. If you are in the lead, it is up to the passing driver to GO AROUND you, not through you. A passing driver should wait until the leader makes a mistake that takes them off the line and then I'd argue it's legit to pass on the line (b/c the leader is no longer there).

The bump during the last turn of the race was enough to push Phend off HIS line; therefore, I'd argue that it was not right...
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tex1 View Post
I do not want to ask this to start a flame war. It is so I can obtain a general consensus as to how rules should be applied.

Top level pro race (just to be clear... ROAR Nats). Should the second place driver have a legitimate complaint about the last corner contact?

Fact. Phend never got into Ty on the last lap and even brake checked so he would not take him out coming out of the rhythm section.

In the last corner Phend clearly put his whole car in front of Ty and was under control.
Ty was under control as well.

Question - Does Ty have the right to punch Phend off the line and take the win?

The way I see it, it really does not matter if Ty did it intentional or not. The fact is Phend was under control and in the corner.

It is not a flame war. It is just a question.

With that being said... What a race!
TEX
That contact did not look intentional at all....

Had Ty clearly punted him out of the way to take the win, that would have been both unprofessional, completely inappropriate, and potentially grounds for protest, but that appeared to be normal contact.

Phend took a slower inside line over the last jumps into the corner. Ty already had momentum through the turn by running an "outside in" line. You can even see that Ty's car slowed before he tapped the back of Phend, showing that he was on the brakes.

With the line that Phend took, even if they hadn't touched, I think Ty would have still been able to beat him to the finish line. That was just some good racing!
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:24 PM   #6
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Would've been a hell of a pass.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbs View Post
That contact did not look intentional at all....

Had Ty clearly punted him out of the way to take the win, that would have been both unprofessional, completely inappropriate, and potentially grounds for protest, but that appeared to be normal contact.

Phend took a slower inside line over the last jumps into the corner. Ty already had momentum through the turn by running an "outside in" line. You can even see that Ty's car slowed before he tapped the back of Phend, showing that he was on the brakes.

With the line that Phend took, even if they hadn't touched, I think Ty would have still been able to beat him to the finish line. That was just some good racing!
Here is the link for that last lap:

http://www.neobuggy.net/modules/news...?storyid=12182

I can definitely see what you are saying about Ty's car slowing. Plus, this all happens so fast and at such a high level of adrenaline.

It was great racing.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:37 PM   #8
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http://vimeo.com/44635858

Bottom line, they were hugging and shaking hands at the end, so this thread is moot. That said, IMO, D made a bonzai hero bomb move over the last set of doubles in attempt to block Ty. In the process he had to slam hard on the brakes (notice D's car ass up at the Apex) and this is the point at which Ty hit him.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:41 PM   #9
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Looks like Phend was full brake lock in the racing line as a result of a risky passing attempt. Seems legit.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:51 PM   #10
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Just watched the last lap vid about 10 times,

To me it all looked to be more incidental racing contact. Two top level racers going at it hard on the last lap. Both had their share of contacts. Just hard racing.

Now if there was rough driving, rather the look of rough driving, I'll attribute much of that to the rough track. Hard to not have contact on a track that rough.

As far as a Protest? I supposed it could have been done, but would it have been worth it?

Ty and Phend both know what rough driving is and isn't. I'm sure if either one really felt a protest was warrented, it would have been done. If not by the driver themselves, then their pit persons, or Team Mgr. would have done so on their behalf. Which I don't know to have been the case (doesn't sound like that was done).

Both had their chances to run away with it in that last lap and a half. The fact that it came down to being that close of a finish is testement to the resovle and skill of both drivers.
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:52 PM   #11
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Looks to me that Phend pushed (over shot) a little into the last turn, Ty ducked inside with a very little tap, nothing wrong with that.
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Old 06-25-2012, 01:03 PM   #12
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That was just awesome racing! Both of those guys are insane!
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Old 06-25-2012, 01:07 PM   #13
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It was not intentional.. Just good clean hard racing. Come on it was the last corner.. 2 guys going for the win of one of the biggest races of the year.. Phend who was in 2nd flew into the corner in front of ty which was in first. Ty has the pick of the line obviously because he was in first when entering the corner.. Phend was just trying one last move in the final turn.. Ty did no do it on purpose.. They were probably both trying and driving harder than they have ever have.

End thread.
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Old 06-25-2012, 01:26 PM   #14
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Red face Don't take it the wrong way...

I loved the race. Both guys running hard and driving their butts off. That is what it is about.

I'm sure Ty did not do it on purpose. Like I said, that question is irrelevant.
In real car racing that is known as getting passed (when you put your whole car in front of another driver under control).

I'm just simply observing Ty did not have the right of way under any racing rules that I know of. Stating that Ty had the right of way would have been incorrect if Phend would have brought the challenge.

Anyways great race.

What I'm gathering here is if you get passed and its close, then it would be OK to tap the guy out of the way and win the race. I know there are organizations out there that will not call it.

The question was if Phend could have questioned there being a no call.

Interesting... but fun.
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Old 06-25-2012, 01:42 PM   #15
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They both had at least one crash each towards the end of the lap where they were nowhere near each other.

If they would have not wrecked just that one time, either of them would have had a 3-5 second lead over the other at the finish line.

That little tap in the last corner was meaningless. Tessman (or the White/Black/Purple car) seemed to deserve that win more anyways. The other car was flipping all over the place.
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