An open letter to sponsored and experienced racers
02-05-2012, 02:18 AM
#16
The hudy touring car setup manual on the very last page has a chart already covering most of the topics needed. I can't find a pdf online which has the chart and I only ever recall seeing the chart in the paper edition. The same principals apply from on-road to off-road in most cases. I found the pdf now at http://www.hudy.net/xhudy/showfile.p...252739b1ad8c24 Use the quick reference chart at the end of the guide on page 54.
02-05-2012, 07:54 AM
#17
The above Hudy setup guide is probably the easiest and most comprehensive read to get up to speed with 1/8th off-road setups.
In my humble experience you should just start with the box setup and practise learning the behaviour of your buggy/truggy before changing any of it's setup. This doesn't need to be on a track it can be done on any off-road surface. Sometimes people expect the rc car to drive itself looking for that miracle setup. The biggest factor in the way a car drives is YOU.
The only thing I would recommend correcting (because it is virtually impossible to drive around) is grip roll. If your car is doing this you need to make changes. Other than that you can pretty much drive around any behaviour unless you are uncoordinated or have terrible reflexes.
In my humble experience you should just start with the box setup and practise learning the behaviour of your buggy/truggy before changing any of it's setup. This doesn't need to be on a track it can be done on any off-road surface. Sometimes people expect the rc car to drive itself looking for that miracle setup. The biggest factor in the way a car drives is YOU.
The only thing I would recommend correcting (because it is virtually impossible to drive around) is grip roll. If your car is doing this you need to make changes. Other than that you can pretty much drive around any behaviour unless you are uncoordinated or have terrible reflexes.
02-05-2012, 09:10 AM
#18
Theres the short list. lol. Tires and springs/shock position are the fastest easiest way to to change handling. And the most noticable. Half of the other settings most drivers would not be able to tell a differance in handling. Tires are top dog in setup. I would say it's probably a better idea to learn more about the tires and what tire to race at what track in what temp than what setup. Tires win races and many differant setups can get them there.
02-05-2012, 10:36 AM
#19
Tech Master
02-05-2012, 10:45 AM
#20
Tech Master
JQs list is good but there are similar lists all over the web. A casual racer with not much time will not want to change diff oils due to the time it takes and if you don't like it you spend ages changing it back again.
If I read the O.P's post right, what he means is a shorter list.
That is, what is the main change you should make first (preferably one that does not affect other things too much) to correct a handling problem?
For example, I reckon my rear end is a bit loose at the moment and there is no way I will change diff oil or shock pistons at the track when we only race for couple of hours once a month - what do I change first, what is easiest and most effective? Go down in shock oil weight is easy and fast, but is toe-in more effective?
Further, on JQ's list it says:
Long rear upper link
Raise upper link on tower compared to hub
One reduces camber the other increases it which could be a bit confusing to some people
If I read the O.P's post right, what he means is a shorter list.
That is, what is the main change you should make first (preferably one that does not affect other things too much) to correct a handling problem?
For example, I reckon my rear end is a bit loose at the moment and there is no way I will change diff oil or shock pistons at the track when we only race for couple of hours once a month - what do I change first, what is easiest and most effective? Go down in shock oil weight is easy and fast, but is toe-in more effective?
Further, on JQ's list it says:
Long rear upper link
Raise upper link on tower compared to hub
One reduces camber the other increases it which could be a bit confusing to some people
Both the link changes reduce camber change.
02-05-2012, 11:53 AM
#21
First of all hello to everyone.
My thought is to ask you, to educate the less...experienced drivers. Using myself as an example I will try to explain what I mean. I believe there are quite a few out there like me,and also many will benefit by the information that will be provided.
I’m not an experienced racer. I’m not a youngster (I’m 52) and do not have the time needed to devote to my hobby. Besides the time spent at home wrenching, I can only spare one race day per month at a local track. This does not give me the chance to practice, experiment, and learn things by trial and error. Copying someone’s setup is not the answer because conditions are different, driving skills differ, equipment differ. I believe one needs a guidance to put you on the right trackand teach you understand how things work .
I, as many of us, do read forums, guides, magazines, so as to understand how to set up my car correctly. But the information is so much that is overwhelming when you need it. Especially on race day!! Besides most of it is provided in a manner that explains each single aspect separately and isolated from everything else. For example you read in a magazine what is and does toe, or camper, ride height, or diff setting.
When you face a particular behavior with your car, all of the above each and by itself don’t help you much even if you remember them especially between heats.
So my idea is to create a list or database of situations (scenarios) one may be faced with. For example : my car is pushing exiting corners, or traction rolls, or flies nose down on jumps,or is loose when braking etc,etc... scenarios that many of us will identify having faced/or are facing .
Now from this data base everyone who believes that can give a correct solid guidance as to what one should do on any particular scenario, the principle steps, that do NOT require specifics as to what car you are driving or what is your present set up will go ahead and write these steps.
We all know that there are more than one way to solve a problem and that every change has an impact on something else, it’s a matter of balance. But this short list of possible steps will be much more helpful to set upones car than all the bibliography that exists. By saying EDUCATE I mean that one can also write if he so wishes, what and why the changes recommended will influence.
Similar as to what I propose is “THE GUIDE” by JQ which is narrowed to fewer situations we are faced with, and the XXXMain setup book which is though for on road cars. Steps proposed can be listed as to the most effective and/or less influential to other behaviors of the car.
Those of you who read this letter, please write your thoughts about it and mostly how the idea can be improved so it will be MORE beneficial to ALL.
Thanks for reading but mostly for any replies.
Diamantis.
(Greece)
My thought is to ask you, to educate the less...experienced drivers. Using myself as an example I will try to explain what I mean. I believe there are quite a few out there like me,and also many will benefit by the information that will be provided.
I’m not an experienced racer. I’m not a youngster (I’m 52) and do not have the time needed to devote to my hobby. Besides the time spent at home wrenching, I can only spare one race day per month at a local track. This does not give me the chance to practice, experiment, and learn things by trial and error. Copying someone’s setup is not the answer because conditions are different, driving skills differ, equipment differ. I believe one needs a guidance to put you on the right trackand teach you understand how things work .
I, as many of us, do read forums, guides, magazines, so as to understand how to set up my car correctly. But the information is so much that is overwhelming when you need it. Especially on race day!! Besides most of it is provided in a manner that explains each single aspect separately and isolated from everything else. For example you read in a magazine what is and does toe, or camper, ride height, or diff setting.
When you face a particular behavior with your car, all of the above each and by itself don’t help you much even if you remember them especially between heats.
So my idea is to create a list or database of situations (scenarios) one may be faced with. For example : my car is pushing exiting corners, or traction rolls, or flies nose down on jumps,or is loose when braking etc,etc... scenarios that many of us will identify having faced/or are facing .
Now from this data base everyone who believes that can give a correct solid guidance as to what one should do on any particular scenario, the principle steps, that do NOT require specifics as to what car you are driving or what is your present set up will go ahead and write these steps.
We all know that there are more than one way to solve a problem and that every change has an impact on something else, it’s a matter of balance. But this short list of possible steps will be much more helpful to set upones car than all the bibliography that exists. By saying EDUCATE I mean that one can also write if he so wishes, what and why the changes recommended will influence.
Similar as to what I propose is “THE GUIDE” by JQ which is narrowed to fewer situations we are faced with, and the XXXMain setup book which is though for on road cars. Steps proposed can be listed as to the most effective and/or less influential to other behaviors of the car.
Those of you who read this letter, please write your thoughts about it and mostly how the idea can be improved so it will be MORE beneficial to ALL.
Thanks for reading but mostly for any replies.
Diamantis.
(Greece)
There is a great guide, it's for on-road but the theory applies overall...it's on http://xxxmain.com/bookz.shtml
02-05-2012, 12:34 PM
#22
Simple changes.....well, first develop a setup that you really like and are comfortable with, one that allows you to drive the car or truck without a lot of drama. Tires are the first thing to get right, after that changing ride height is a simple and easy change as well as changing droop. Both can help get your car or truck to drive the way that you want.
02-05-2012, 12:54 PM
#23
There is a great guide, it's for on-road but the theory applies overall...it's on http://xxxmain.com/bookz.shtml
Maybe you can introduce a series of articles on your new magazine.
As for the xxxmain book, I already mention it on the text you quote,towards the end.
02-05-2012, 01:02 PM
#25
It’s very good to have replies because you can understand how readers have perceived your thoughts and also very good when a thread has many viewers.
What I had in mind was that, organizers of the RcTech could create something similar as to what exists on the off road engine section ie : “the tuning bible” and “the break in bible”. A permanent thread where members and visitors may find a source of information tailored to their own actual needs, since answers given will derive from members own questions.
It is a project that cannot be done overnight but it will build up and grow. There are members here such as Chad Bradley, Donrod, Cody’s father,JQ, Shinnbad12(Scott), FrankL, Joey Erwin, RiPo, and many, many more that can contribute to the success of this effort.
Some of the replies given where exactly to what I meant in the first place. Instead of diverting members/readers to other sources of information , provide these information on site. Have people seek advise and information on RcTech!! Especially if they are written in form of possible steps simple and direct , ABOVE ALL though, explaining and educating readers, as to why the proposed step will help out.
To use the replies already given as an example, JQ describes on his first posting some steps one can do for gaining more overall steering. How one will conclude these steps in reading Hudy’s guide and on the guide proposed by Joey Powell. Guides that are very good, very informative but not in the form that a less experienced racer can easily use. Besides all these guides exist for those of us that are not experienced and probably will not be if we don’t understand the why behind the step.
I know/have read that tires play a huge role in correctly setting up your car but I don’t believe it’s the answer to one’s nose diving car nor will he find a solution to his problem in the guides already mentioned.
Well , I think I may have made it, too personal. But I wish there was something close to JQ’s guide with more scenarios and explanations as to why. So all rc drivers like me lacking experience can benefit from your knowledge.
What I had in mind was that, organizers of the RcTech could create something similar as to what exists on the off road engine section ie : “the tuning bible” and “the break in bible”. A permanent thread where members and visitors may find a source of information tailored to their own actual needs, since answers given will derive from members own questions.
It is a project that cannot be done overnight but it will build up and grow. There are members here such as Chad Bradley, Donrod, Cody’s father,JQ, Shinnbad12(Scott), FrankL, Joey Erwin, RiPo, and many, many more that can contribute to the success of this effort.
Some of the replies given where exactly to what I meant in the first place. Instead of diverting members/readers to other sources of information , provide these information on site. Have people seek advise and information on RcTech!! Especially if they are written in form of possible steps simple and direct , ABOVE ALL though, explaining and educating readers, as to why the proposed step will help out.
To use the replies already given as an example, JQ describes on his first posting some steps one can do for gaining more overall steering. How one will conclude these steps in reading Hudy’s guide and on the guide proposed by Joey Powell. Guides that are very good, very informative but not in the form that a less experienced racer can easily use. Besides all these guides exist for those of us that are not experienced and probably will not be if we don’t understand the why behind the step.
I know/have read that tires play a huge role in correctly setting up your car but I don’t believe it’s the answer to one’s nose diving car nor will he find a solution to his problem in the guides already mentioned.
Well , I think I may have made it, too personal. But I wish there was something close to JQ’s guide with more scenarios and explanations as to why. So all rc drivers like me lacking experience can benefit from your knowledge.
02-05-2012, 01:44 PM
#26
Hi Dia, it must be hard to learn and improve only racing 1 day a month.
you may find a setup for example that will help keep the nose of the car up over jumps but thats more about how your jumping and throttle control, there is also some jumps that are just shaped wrong or too short, they will kick up the rear end.
Your onto a good idea though, good easy to understand setup tips.
you may find a setup for example that will help keep the nose of the car up over jumps but thats more about how your jumping and throttle control, there is also some jumps that are just shaped wrong or too short, they will kick up the rear end.
Your onto a good idea though, good easy to understand setup tips.
02-05-2012, 05:33 PM
#27
If changing diff fluids takes to long then you need to get another buggy that is easier to work on.
02-06-2012, 03:05 AM
#28
Packer and JQ - I was not talking about changing diff fluids taking too long, just that it is not what noobs or intermediates who race once a month are going to do at the track. And it takes longer than every other change. Not too long, just longer.
For me, doing it on a sloped table (screws rolling off) in the blazing sun (frustrating) with wind blowing sand around (not good for diffs lol) at the track where we only race for a few hrs once a month is not an option.
It takes me about 30mins to change a front.
That is why I asked what is the most effective and fastest answer to each problem. Let's say major oversteer. Do we do toe, camber, arm location or what (first)?
Tyres is not an answer to the noob / intermediate as they don't have multiple sets and will just run what everyone esle runs at that track. So even if it is a wetter / dryer etc day, they will be close enough to having the right tyre.
For me, doing it on a sloped table (screws rolling off) in the blazing sun (frustrating) with wind blowing sand around (not good for diffs lol) at the track where we only race for a few hrs once a month is not an option.
It takes me about 30mins to change a front.
That is why I asked what is the most effective and fastest answer to each problem. Let's say major oversteer. Do we do toe, camber, arm location or what (first)?
Tyres is not an answer to the noob / intermediate as they don't have multiple sets and will just run what everyone esle runs at that track. So even if it is a wetter / dryer etc day, they will be close enough to having the right tyre.
02-06-2012, 05:37 AM
#29
For the noob that shows up with the famous RTR car and tires,,,,,,, simple stuff to teach them with limited tools and experience,,,, first thing i would suggest is a simple front toe adjustment. One can create steering and take away excessive turn in with a pair of pliers. I feel the steering of a car of a car can make or break the driveability of even the yard bashing T Max.
After that ride height is also a simple adjustment that useually dont require much for tools or dissassembly but can affect the overhandling. The noob must first understand "weight trasnfer" before getting to confused by the in depth reading in the Hudy bible
A car with junk shocks will still transfer weight and the higher the car the more the weight will transfer, thus achieving traction from just basic physics.
Just my 2 cents, hope this is what you were looking for.
Scott
After that ride height is also a simple adjustment that useually dont require much for tools or dissassembly but can affect the overhandling. The noob must first understand "weight trasnfer" before getting to confused by the in depth reading in the Hudy bible
A car with junk shocks will still transfer weight and the higher the car the more the weight will transfer, thus achieving traction from just basic physics. Just my 2 cents, hope this is what you were looking for.
Scott
02-07-2012, 06:34 PM
#30
Dia
This is just my 2 cents worth, but hope this helps
Tires are important, good idea to look at the local fast guys and see what they use.
Once you build your ride with the kits basic set up, you take it out to the track and it does not perform to what you would like, I usually follow these basic steps:
If going into a turn, you give it gas and the rear end slides around, losing traction, shorten the wheel base, put the rear hub carriers all the way forward.
If you come into a turn and you give it gas and the car does not want to turn, but just pushes and wants to go straight then you need a longer wheel base, put the rear hub carriers all the way back.
If you are going into a jump and the back end kicks up I usually add more rear ride height until it stops doing that.
If the car has no traction and is difficult to control, too much power, I usually go up a tooth on my clutch bell.
These are relatively easy set up changes that help dial into the tracks sweet spot. This is were I usually start and then I get into the fine tuning of my set up, camber, shock oil, diff oils, pistons, springs etc…..
This may not work for everyone and I am sure fellow racers will have differing opinions, but this is what works for me.
This is just my 2 cents worth, but hope this helps
Tires are important, good idea to look at the local fast guys and see what they use.
Once you build your ride with the kits basic set up, you take it out to the track and it does not perform to what you would like, I usually follow these basic steps:
If going into a turn, you give it gas and the rear end slides around, losing traction, shorten the wheel base, put the rear hub carriers all the way forward.
If you come into a turn and you give it gas and the car does not want to turn, but just pushes and wants to go straight then you need a longer wheel base, put the rear hub carriers all the way back.
If you are going into a jump and the back end kicks up I usually add more rear ride height until it stops doing that.
If the car has no traction and is difficult to control, too much power, I usually go up a tooth on my clutch bell.
These are relatively easy set up changes that help dial into the tracks sweet spot. This is were I usually start and then I get into the fine tuning of my set up, camber, shock oil, diff oils, pistons, springs etc…..
This may not work for everyone and I am sure fellow racers will have differing opinions, but this is what works for me.