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Old 09-08-2011, 08:37 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by 1BLADE1 View Post
go with what "Ghost Says"
he races at our tracks,pretty much has picked up with running with us in the "Pro" class....
dont bother with Mod motors save your cash there pretty much a waste and i "Mod Motors" ask "Ghost" i prove a point by running "Stock Motors"
i say a waste, for what your trying to get to for now keep it "Simple"

we did a review of some 22 , .21 motors....the STOCK B5 is a Monster with either the 2013 or 58 series pipes....
the 454 is a Beast...!!! most with discount that motor but it does a Great job..!!! can even hammer most modded motors when "properly Tuned"....!! even better with the "Turbo-Conversion"
in some cases even at our HUGE track seen some of the 454's get
7:45.....!!!! sometimes 8 minutes.....
it does like to drink the Fuel bit Quicker than a "Average .21" the VZ series O.S. motors are no Slouch either.
a quick note, for swaping out motors you can put just about anything in there, and run any "Clutch" losi 4 shoe 3 shoe etc.

and at our track depending on layout with most motors..almost Unheard of to go 10+ minutes but stock B5's and Axial's and
Nova P5 series(P5XL,P5XLT,21-4,21-4BTTS etc.) seem to be able to.
most of the motors "We Have Seen" at OUR track pretty rare under "RACE Conditions" see anyone Pro or other wise go more than 10, usually see them pull 9:50....."Ghost" is one of the few we have "Seen" do a 11 minutes........
and i do see many in truggy at "OUR Track" pull maybe 9 minutes if lucky....but B5 owners usually pull about 9:50 to 10:15 pretty easy.....Ron over at WERKS did a great job on that motor to come out with a great motor for the Price that it is......
now "EVERY TRACK is Different" every driver is different.....
i have seen the same truck used by 2 different drivers have vastly different times....!!!! for example we timed (For our track)
2 different drivers, one went 8:46 minutes (3 times in a row)
one went 10:15 seconds 3 times in a row
from start to "Empty" so just do not go by "Engine alone"...
although you'll read many a post about someone saying
"Dude, i can do 30 minutes on a tank in my truggy"......
ok, thats great....??? but doesnt mean will be like that at "Your Track"
however the B5 is "Known" for it's Ability to be able to have Long run times.....as well as the P5 series Nova's......

as far as the truggy itself, i would "Advise" just get a new one....
it "WILL BE Less in the Long and Short term"....Bar none...
"Why" your really just buying someone elses "Headache" no matter how you cut it....?? with a new one you "Know what your getting"
and regardless of how well someone takes care of there car...??
there a "Mechanical Device" maybe everything is taken care of? but
what if any gven part is on the borderline of "Failure" you'll be left buying parts.....it's a 50/50 roll of the dice....
unless it's someone selling something New in the Box...you see a few from time to time....!!!
but for 575.00 better to get a kit...??? pricey? in some sence? but better..
or if you dont have any or little of your Equipment left...the RTR
has all the stuff Starter box etc. ,well you know as i am sure you been doing some "looking around"....

for the chassis, on a RTR when the track we have seen a few times when it gets really tore up we used the RTR chassis.....!!!
LOL........
99.999999999999999999999% of people you'll read make the RTR losi seem like it can't work as well unless you buy everything and get a chassis...."Nonsence"
get one and run it...you'll be spending more time wiping the drool from your face from the smiling you going to be doing....
6 billion people on the planet 6billion ways to "Advise" how a car best works........like all Manufactures Losi did there homework and it's a great out of the box.....when you start looking for that extra half second because you and the rest of the field are 3tenths of a second "Between one another" yes, start upgrading....

hop-ups in itself...??? not really needed....not for the Losi as well as other types most kits nowdays are pretty "Dialed" you'll spend more time getting "Mind-Zapped" thinking what do i need...???
the RTR is the "Same" as the race roller....minus a few items...
the Race chassis is more Durable,and the Towers are Stronger....
though some of us are running "Carbon Fiber Towers"
Durability wise you'll only need really , Shock caps...the rtr ones are Plastic.....towers run them untill one bends....
durability you do not need "Much" ,a Chassis when that time comes..
but if your at the point where your Lap times are Consistant for some 7 to 10 laps in a row...yes,then you'll notice a difference right off the batt how the truck will handle...till then, have fun first then other stuff after.....

"Tunning Wise" you do not need as much as well...
chassis at a later time, towers the V2 Tower will "Help" as it has a couple of different locations to move the shocks and Camber links to...and the Race Roller/Kit towers are "Stronger" as there as Ghost mentioned ,there not "Stamped" there Milled-Out...
and the 10-Degree front blocks for more Steering in mid corner.
(if really Needed?? every track is Different-as well as "Driver")
and the LRC rear blocks...mostly tunning wise you can "pop" out the Insert to change rear Toe-and Anti Squat settings and instead of say replacing a rear mount you just replace the little plastic Inserts when they "Wear out" (part# losa1759)
and shock shafts, the Ti-Nitrate ones are NOT so much as "Stonger"
but the Coating helps in there "Function" to do there job "Easier"
i have seen guys at our track run stock ones?
and run them them till the Piston wears out???....LOL
and the shafts look fine....but the Ti-Coating will help as well keep it from "Scratching as Easily as well".......much like a "Drill-Bit"

Oh, the biggest Mod i would get is the RGX Bottom Plate....!!!
will save that $115.00 chassis investment.....!!!!
covers the Entire Bottom...!! instead of a "Tiny" part like everyone elses......
here are some pics, shows a "Worn out one" and a new one i was putting on,can see the side view on a worn one on a 6-month old chassis...plate not there that would be the Chassis worn down....





again really little stuff here and there except the chassis the race one is a bit stronger and Hard Anodized, it's a good "Platform" i even have seen a few Losi guys run them Stock well except for there motors and stuff, and run the same lap as Adam Drake....just to "Prove a Point"....
granted some of these guys can run a "lunch-box" with wheels and still drive...!!!...LOL
but they show you can still be in the Winners Circles with a stock truck...

electronics....??? there is aTough one.....?????
now this could be a Debate even the U.S. Congress could go....
......."WTF"..........?????????????????

personaly i am Currently using "Hobby People" servos
(testing for a Review) and they are holding up "Great" i broke one last week but that was "My-Fault" all metal gear,..Fast..!!
222oz and only 49.00
i broke the "Top" of the case(a Fluke,it happens) the servo saver "locked up" and transfered that Energy directly to the servo,"ANY Servo" would have broke.....
(normally use the Savox 1283's and 1268's big events)


but have used Savox,Airtronics,ACE,JR,KO,Hitech and Associated....
all really good servos....JR, and KO insanley "Over-Priced"
but what i have "Seen So Far".......
Savox and the ACE servos....seem to hold up better...???
on "Average" doesnt mean other ones are any better or worse...???
for example...i have had one of my Hitech's last 4 years?
yet another one last one weekend...??? "
Everything can and Does Break".....just a mater or "When"......
except the Associated Servos......??? i see ALLOT of people go though those.....and yet others "Swear by them".....????
but the RTR servos,when you can upgrade those when you can....
there "Ok" but only have about 50 or 60 oz of Torque...and a Tad "Slow"......the throttle servo get something with at least 100oz of Torque you do not need that Much,but good to have....with something around .15 speed ......you really do not need something with mindbending Torque for the brakes.......

steering,anything with 200oz is more than enough...though you'll hear people say no way you need a 6000 ounce servo....!!!
with the advent of Li-Po's the Voltage they can produce will enable a 150oz. servo if you lock down the srevo saver start to bend and twist the connected parts.......so it is the "Holding Power" you'll need to settle on,what you can Afford......
Airtronics,Savox and JR's are good for these since some are used in Helicopters since most Heli's can generate "Masive" Inerta Torque from the Manuvers they do........"They Have To"
or a Tic-Toc Manuver be hard to do....
i am sure Ghost can also point a few other things out as well but there is some stuff i have noted at the tracks......'
i hope some of this can help a little.....



my mod B5 runs at the same track you do and gets 12 minutes in a buggy ! plus its faster and smoother then any of your stock engines by a mile.....My buddy Tim would be more then happy to give you a demo !
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:15 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1BLADE1 View Post
go with what "Ghost Says"
he races at our tracks,pretty much has picked up with running with us in the "Pro" class....
dont bother with Mod motors save your cash there pretty much a waste and i "Mod Motors" ask "Ghost" i prove a point by running "Stock Motors"
i say a waste, for what your trying to get to for now keep it "Simple"

we did a review of some 22 , .21 motors....the STOCK B5 is a Monster with either the 2013 or 58 series pipes....
the 454 is a Beast...!!! most with discount that motor but it does a Great job..!!! can even hammer most modded motors when "properly Tuned"....!! even better with the "Turbo-Conversion"
in some cases even at our HUGE track seen some of the 454's get
7:45.....!!!! sometimes 8 minutes.....
it does like to drink the Fuel bit Quicker than a "Average .21" the VZ series O.S. motors are no Slouch either.
a quick note, for swaping out motors you can put just about anything in there, and run any "Clutch" losi 4 shoe 3 shoe etc.

and at our track depending on layout with most motors..almost Unheard of to go 10+ minutes but stock B5's and Axial's and
Nova P5 series(P5XL,P5XLT,21-4,21-4BTTS etc.) seem to be able to.
most of the motors "We Have Seen" at OUR track pretty rare under "RACE Conditions" see anyone Pro or other wise go more than 10, usually see them pull 9:50....."Ghost" is one of the few we have "Seen" do a 11 minutes........
and i do see many in truggy at "OUR Track" pull maybe 9 minutes if lucky....but B5 owners usually pull about 9:50 to 10:15 pretty easy.....Ron over at WERKS did a great job on that motor to come out with a great motor for the Price that it is......
now "EVERY TRACK is Different" every driver is different.....
i have seen the same truck used by 2 different drivers have vastly different times....!!!! for example we timed (For our track)
2 different drivers, one went 8:46 minutes (3 times in a row)
one went 10:15 seconds 3 times in a row
from start to "Empty" so just do not go by "Engine alone"...
although you'll read many a post about someone saying
"Dude, i can do 30 minutes on a tank in my truggy"......
ok, thats great....??? but doesnt mean will be like that at "Your Track"
however the B5 is "Known" for it's Ability to be able to have Long run times.....as well as the P5 series Nova's......

as far as the truggy itself, i would "Advise" just get a new one....
it "WILL BE Less in the Long and Short term"....Bar none...
"Why" your really just buying someone elses "Headache" no matter how you cut it....?? with a new one you "Know what your getting"
and regardless of how well someone takes care of there car...??
there a "Mechanical Device" maybe everything is taken care of? but
what if any gven part is on the borderline of "Failure" you'll be left buying parts.....it's a 50/50 roll of the dice....
unless it's someone selling something New in the Box...you see a few from time to time....!!!
but for 575.00 better to get a kit...??? pricey? in some sence? but better..
or if you dont have any or little of your Equipment left...the RTR
has all the stuff Starter box etc. ,well you know as i am sure you been doing some "looking around"....

for the chassis, on a RTR when the track we have seen a few times when it gets really tore up we used the RTR chassis.....!!!
LOL........
99.999999999999999999999% of people you'll read make the RTR losi seem like it can't work as well unless you buy everything and get a chassis...."Nonsence"
get one and run it...you'll be spending more time wiping the drool from your face from the smiling you going to be doing....
6 billion people on the planet 6billion ways to "Advise" how a car best works........like all Manufactures Losi did there homework and it's a great out of the box.....when you start looking for that extra half second because you and the rest of the field are 3tenths of a second "Between one another" yes, start upgrading....

hop-ups in itself...??? not really needed....not for the Losi as well as other types most kits nowdays are pretty "Dialed" you'll spend more time getting "Mind-Zapped" thinking what do i need...???
the RTR is the "Same" as the race roller....minus a few items...
the Race chassis is more Durable,and the Towers are Stronger....
though some of us are running "Carbon Fiber Towers"
Durability wise you'll only need really , Shock caps...the rtr ones are Plastic.....towers run them untill one bends....
durability you do not need "Much" ,a Chassis when that time comes..
but if your at the point where your Lap times are Consistant for some 7 to 10 laps in a row...yes,then you'll notice a difference right off the batt how the truck will handle...till then, have fun first then other stuff after.....

"Tunning Wise" you do not need as much as well...
chassis at a later time, towers the V2 Tower will "Help" as it has a couple of different locations to move the shocks and Camber links to...and the Race Roller/Kit towers are "Stronger" as there as Ghost mentioned ,there not "Stamped" there Milled-Out...
and the 10-Degree front blocks for more Steering in mid corner.
(if really Needed?? every track is Different-as well as "Driver")
and the LRC rear blocks...mostly tunning wise you can "pop" out the Insert to change rear Toe-and Anti Squat settings and instead of say replacing a rear mount you just replace the little plastic Inserts when they "Wear out" (part# losa1759)
and shock shafts, the Ti-Nitrate ones are NOT so much as "Stonger"
but the Coating helps in there "Function" to do there job "Easier"
i have seen guys at our track run stock ones?
and run them them till the Piston wears out???....LOL
and the shafts look fine....but the Ti-Coating will help as well keep it from "Scratching as Easily as well".......much like a "Drill-Bit"

Oh, the biggest Mod i would get is the RGX Bottom Plate....!!!
will save that $115.00 chassis investment.....!!!!
covers the Entire Bottom...!! instead of a "Tiny" part like everyone elses......
here are some pics, shows a "Worn out one" and a new one i was putting on,can see the side view on a worn one on a 6-month old chassis...plate not there that would be the Chassis worn down....

again really little stuff here and there except the chassis the race one is a bit stronger and Hard Anodized, it's a good "Platform" i even have seen a few Losi guys run them Stock well except for there motors and stuff, and run the same lap as Adam Drake....just to "Prove a Point"....
granted some of these guys can run a "lunch-box" with wheels and still drive...!!!...LOL
but they show you can still be in the Winners Circles with a stock truck...

electronics....??? there is aTough one.....?????
now this could be a Debate even the U.S. Congress could go....
......."WTF"..........?????????????????

personaly i am Currently using "Hobby People" servos
(testing for a Review) and they are holding up "Great" i broke one last week but that was "My-Fault" all metal gear,..Fast..!!
222oz and only 49.00
i broke the "Top" of the case(a Fluke,it happens) the servo saver "locked up" and transfered that Energy directly to the servo,"ANY Servo" would have broke.....
(normally use the Savox 1283's and 1268's big events)


but have used Savox,Airtronics,ACE,JR,KO,Hitech and Associated....
all really good servos....JR, and KO insanley "Over-Priced"
but what i have "Seen So Far".......
Savox and the ACE servos....seem to hold up better...???
on "Average" doesnt mean other ones are any better or worse...???
for example...i have had one of my Hitech's last 4 years?
yet another one last one weekend...??? "
Everything can and Does Break".....just a mater or "When"......
except the Associated Servos......??? i see ALLOT of people go though those.....and yet others "Swear by them".....????
but the RTR servos,when you can upgrade those when you can....
there "Ok" but only have about 50 or 60 oz of Torque...and a Tad "Slow"......the throttle servo get something with at least 100oz of Torque you do not need that Much,but good to have....with something around .15 speed ......you really do not need something with mindbending Torque for the brakes.......

steering,anything with 200oz is more than enough...though you'll hear people say no way you need a 6000 ounce servo....!!!
with the advent of Li-Po's the Voltage they can produce will enable a 150oz. servo if you lock down the srevo saver start to bend and twist the connected parts.......so it is the "Holding Power" you'll need to settle on,what you can Afford......
Airtronics,Savox and JR's are good for these since some are used in Helicopters since most Heli's can generate "Masive" Inerta Torque from the Manuvers they do........"They Have To"
or a Tic-Toc Manuver be hard to do....
i am sure Ghost can also point a few other things out as well but there is some stuff i have noted at the tracks......'
i hope some of this can help a little.....


Modded engines are FAR from being a waste! Those are very strong words! Modded engines = more power everwhere, more fun, and when done properly by a compentent engine builder (not just a hack with a dremel), they are just as fuel efficient, if not more so, than stock engines!
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:52 AM   #33
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Wow guys... Really?

I'm not saying that mod engines aren't better but are they $100-200 better? How about to a beginner/novice driver... Heck I'll even say how about to an amateur driver? We're all here to have fun and not all of us can dump a fortune into super expensive engines...

The Stock B5 is one of those secret weapon type engines that no doubt could be better modded but the whole idea and point of that engine is that it is inexpensive... Its supposed to be a $300+ engine that you can buy for less than $200... It already hangs with the best of them out there and honestly it has borderline too much power for average drivers.

I guess my point is this... To the average driver the only difference between a mod engine and a stock engine is the size of the hole in his wallet... On the other hand if you are one of those drivers racing with the likes of Drake then you need every little advantage you can get (good luck catching that bonito...)

On another note a bigger more powerful engine is probably the worst thing you can get if you are just getting back into your groove... Throttle control is one of the hardest things to get down in this hobby and if your engine has the power to break the tires loose halfway down the straight then you are going to have all kinds of problems... Engines are so much more powerful than they used to be that its crazy. I cant count the number of guys at my track that have way too much engine for their driving style... Many guys get into the mindset that is more money = better and faster and its almost the opposite that is true. Faster with less control = more crashes = worse lap times and more expensive. I realize that once you hit a certain level in this hobby that you could drive a buggy with a v8 in it and keep in under control but for most of us that is very difficult and would just lead to more frustration... I can say this for sure; When I dropped from a high end super ridiculous engine to a slower smoother engine it was hands down the best racing decision I ever made... I became more consistent and my lap times dropped right along side maintenance costs...
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:10 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by ghost68 View Post
Wow guys... Really?

I'm not saying that mod engines aren't better but are they $100-200 better? How about to a beginner/novice driver... Heck I'll even say how about to an amateur driver? We're all here to have fun and not all of us can dump a fortune into super expensive engines...

The Stock B5 is one of those secret weapon type engines that no doubt could be better modded but the whole idea and point of that engine is that it is inexpensive... Its supposed to be a $300+ engine that you can buy for less than $200... It already hangs with the best of them out there and honestly it has borderline too much power for average drivers.

I guess my point is this... To the average driver the only difference between a mod engine and a stock engine is the size of the hole in his wallet... On the other hand if you are one of those drivers racing with the likes of Drake then you need every little advantage you can get (good luck catching that bonito...)

On another note a bigger more powerful engine is probably the worst thing you can get if you are just getting back into your groove... Throttle control is one of the hardest things to get down in this hobby and if your engine has the power to break the tires loose halfway down the straight then you are going to have all kinds of problems... Engines are so much more powerful than they used to be that its crazy. I cant count the number of guys at my track that have way too much engine for their driving style... Many guys get into the mindset that is more money = better and faster and its almost the opposite that is true. Faster with less control = more crashes = worse lap times and more expensive. I realize that once you hit a certain level in this hobby that you could drive a buggy with a v8 in it and keep in under control but for most of us that is very difficult and would just lead to more frustration... I can say this for sure; When I dropped from a high end super ridiculous engine to a slower smoother engine it was hands down the best racing decision I ever made... I became more consistent and my lap times dropped right along side maintenance costs...
I agree...It's all about power delivery too and the ability to control it...When I raced my Revo I was way more consistent with the stock 3.3 motor than I was with the .21vspec I stuffed in there. It would do wheelies all the way down the straights.
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:18 AM   #35
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I should have spent more time replying...a mod engine isn't for everyone..... I am not even sure if its right for the OP........BUT i had to comment on the statement that mod engines were nothing more then a waste of money ! thats all ! LOL
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:19 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by ghost68 View Post
Wow guys... Really?

I'm not saying that mod engines aren't better but are they $100-200 better? How about to a beginner/novice driver... Heck I'll even say how about to an amateur driver? We're all here to have fun and not all of us can dump a fortune into super expensive engines...

The Stock B5 is one of those secret weapon type engines that no doubt could be better modded but the whole idea and point of that engine is that it is inexpensive... Its supposed to be a $300+ engine that you can buy for less than $200... It already hangs with the best of them out there and honestly it has borderline too much power for average drivers.

I guess my point is this... To the average driver the only difference between a mod engine and a stock engine is the size of the hole in his wallet... On the other hand if you are one of those drivers racing with the likes of Drake then you need every little advantage you can get (good luck catching that bonito...)

On another note a bigger more powerful engine is probably the worst thing you can get if you are just getting back into your groove... Throttle control is one of the hardest things to get down in this hobby and if your engine has the power to break the tires loose halfway down the straight then you are going to have all kinds of problems... Engines are so much more powerful than they used to be that its crazy. I cant count the number of guys at my track that have way too much engine for their driving style... Many guys get into the mindset that is more money = better and faster and its almost the opposite that is true. Faster with less control = more crashes = worse lap times and more expensive. I realize that once you hit a certain level in this hobby that you could drive a buggy with a v8 in it and keep in under control but for most of us that is very difficult and would just lead to more frustration... I can say this for sure; When I dropped from a high end super ridiculous engine to a slower smoother engine it was hands down the best racing decision I ever made... I became more consistent and my lap times dropped right along side maintenance costs...


stock B5 is awesome.... I agree, and its likely the best bet for someone just getting back into the groove !
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:20 AM   #37
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I should have spent more time replying...a mod engine isn't for everyone..... I am not even sure if its right for the OP........BUT i had to comment on the statement that mod engines were nothing more then a waste of money ! thats all ! LOL
Makes sense...Your sig says team clockwork lol
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:22 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghost68 View Post
Wow guys... Really?

I'm not saying that mod engines aren't better but are they $100-200 better? How about to a beginner/novice driver... Heck I'll even say how about to an amateur driver? We're all here to have fun and not all of us can dump a fortune into super expensive engines...

The Stock B5 is one of those secret weapon type engines that no doubt could be better modded but the whole idea and point of that engine is that it is inexpensive... Its supposed to be a $300+ engine that you can buy for less than $200... It already hangs with the best of them out there and honestly it has borderline too much power for average drivers.

I guess my point is this... To the average driver the only difference between a mod engine and a stock engine is the size of the hole in his wallet... On the other hand if you are one of those drivers racing with the likes of Drake then you need every little advantage you can get (good luck catching that bonito...)

On another note a bigger more powerful engine is probably the worst thing you can get if you are just getting back into your groove... Throttle control is one of the hardest things to get down in this hobby and if your engine has the power to break the tires loose halfway down the straight then you are going to have all kinds of problems... Engines are so much more powerful than they used to be that its crazy. I cant count the number of guys at my track that have way too much engine for their driving style... Many guys get into the mindset that is more money = better and faster and its almost the opposite that is true. Faster with less control = more crashes = worse lap times and more expensive. I realize that once you hit a certain level in this hobby that you could drive a buggy with a v8 in it and keep in under control but for most of us that is very difficult and would just lead to more frustration... I can say this for sure; When I dropped from a high end super ridiculous engine to a slower smoother engine it was hands down the best racing decision I ever made... I became more consistent and my lap times dropped right along side maintenance costs...
Well stated Ghost. I agree that a new or novice driver may not be as fast with the extra power of a modded engine. I have to add though, that modded engines can be made smooth and powerful at the same time. I run modded engines only, and they have certainly helped my game, but I had to learn throttle control first to in order exploit the the benefits of a modded engine ( power when you need it and improved mileage ). But really, run whatever puts a smile on your face, and makes you happy.
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:32 PM   #39
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what kills me is some people think its perfectly fine to spend all kinds of dough on fancy paint jobs, radio skins, starter box skins and yet think its a waste of money buying a modified engine ! guys are more concerned with bling and looking good then they are in actually going faster !
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:34 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroFreakManHo View Post
Well stated Ghost. I agree that a new or novice driver may not be as fast with the extra power of a modded engine. I have to add though, that modded engines can be made smooth and powerful at the same time. I run modded engines only, and they have certainly helped my game, but I had to learn throttle control first to in order exploit the the benefits of a modded engine ( power when you need it and improved mileage ). But really, run whatever puts a smile on your face, and makes you happy.
Well said...I agree a lot of it comes down to your personal preference on the motor.
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