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Old 08-07-2011, 06:44 PM   #1
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Default Straight Centre Drive-train VS Centred Engine

Greetings fellow racers.

Out of the current crop of 1/8th GP buggy racing kits available right now, which has the straightest possible centre drive-train layout. Please take into account both front and rear shafts. I know some have a very straight rear, but really angled front.

From what I have seen it's between the Kyosho MP9, Mugen MBX-6 and Associated RC8. Any racers out there who have used some or all of these kits please chime in with your opinion/experience?

How important is it to have the straightest possible centre drive-train layout vs having your engine placed as centre as possible on the chassis?

As racers what do you prefer and which do you think offers a better balanced package. Taking into account on and off power handling, jumps etc.


Don't be shy all replies and opinions are welcomed.


Cheers,
John
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:18 PM   #2
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I actually owned them all of the above, and Losi 2.0. The ones with straight drivelines will be smother and last longer with less maintenance.
I got back in to the hobby 4 years ago after a 16 years. The RC8 handled good, but those shocks and diff access where not the greatest, got an MBX5r and really liked it, but as soon as the MBX6 came out I bought one, big mistake as the 6 is not as forgiving as the 5r was and I could not drive it. Bought the Losi 2.0 handled good, but i could not deal with the maintenance, I have been running the mp9TKI for 2 years it is now, upgraded to tki2 and now tki2 wc. (good thing about Kyosho you can just upgrade till they completely change the car), my drive train is still the original, in need of a new one, but I have over 20 gallons on this drive train. The losi 2.0 eats front center driveshafts.
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:35 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by John. View Post
Greetings fellow racers.

Out of the current crop of 1/8th GP buggy racing kits available right now, which has the straightest possible centre drive-train layout. Please take into account both front and rear shafts. I know some have a very straight rear, but really angled front.

From what I have seen it's between the Kyosho MP9, Mugen MBX-6 and Associated RC8. Any racers out there who have used some or all of these kits please chime in with your opinion/experience?

How important is it to have the straightest possible centre drive-train layout vs having your engine placed as centre as possible on the chassis?

As racers what do you prefer and which do you think offers a better balanced package. Taking into account on and off power handling, jumps etc.


Don't be shy all replies and opinions are welcomed.


Cheers,
John
A more centralized engine is a more balanced design. Offsetting the engine does tend to cause increased driveshaft wear up front due to the angle. IMHO, small price to pay. I Uni joint or HB DCJ minimizes the increased wear.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:14 PM   #4
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tamiya is the straightest. the angle is less important than weight distribution, if the car is balanced it will be more stable. the greater the angle the faster the wear but winning is the key. i love how kyosho and ae have the "old" design but seem to be winning everything.
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Old 08-08-2011, 12:31 PM   #5
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tamiya is the straightest. the angle is less important than weight distribution, if the car is balanced it will be more stable. the greater the angle the faster the wear but winning is the key. i love how kyosho and ae have the "old" design but seem to be winning everything.
They're winning because they have good machines and the very best drivers.




I prefer a centralized engine over a straight driveline. I'm all for centralizing any heavy component on a car.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:16 PM   #6
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The Serpent 811 is a nice compromise of central weight placement and a relatively straight driveline.

In 9 gallons on this chassis I'm still using the same driveshafts and outdrive cups. No really significant wear.

Drive line pic: http://www.redrc.net/wp-content/uplo...rpent811-9.jpg
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:51 PM   #7
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well i have a rc8t and the axles are pretty straight foward and i dont notice hardly any wear and im running it as electric . now i have own the losi eights buggy and truggy in there at a angle i notice increase wear for sure over a short time.

does it make a diffrence in performance wise no just the way it wears.
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Old 08-08-2011, 02:13 PM   #8
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The Serpent 811 is a nice compromise of central weight placement and a relatively straight driveline.

In 9 gallons on this chassis I'm still using the same driveshafts and outdrive cups. No really significant wear.

Drive line pic: http://www.redrc.net/wp-content/uplo...rpent811-9.jpg
I gotta agree even though I only own the truggy, and not the buggy yet. The layout on the Serpent is pretty slick. I will likely buy the 811 buggy for next season if funds allow.
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Old 08-08-2011, 04:08 PM   #9
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They're winning because they have good machines and the very best drivers.




I prefer a centralized engine over a straight driveline. I'm all for centralizing any heavy component on a car.
Tebo was not so great with the O'donnel car.....
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:21 AM   #10
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Tebo was not so great with the O'donnel car.....
Tebo's always been great, but the O'donnel car wasn't great enough for Tebo. Kyosho's design is the most copied( maybe not today anymore ) design for a reason, because it works.

I can only draw from my own experiences though, and my Serpent truggy is MUCH faster than my RC8T ever was when comparing my lap times, I didn't do anything different, just switched brands and instantly got faster. I bought my RC8T when it first came out, and I loved it ever since, but the Serpent is a better machine to me. Maifield, IMO, would be untouchable if he was piloting a Serpent.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:10 AM   #11
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So...the kind of car you drive does help? no? from the top manufactures there is a car for everyones driving style, but a proper setup makes the car fell just right. I laugh at people that put there kits together with the best of best equipment and do not set them up properly, don't bother asking for help and then go around trashing he brand. All cars have cons and pros (drivetrain included) its just what feels good for you. Like myself I loved the Mbx5r and could not drive the mbx6, too light a twitchy for me.
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Old 08-09-2011, 11:00 AM   #12
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So...the kind of car you drive does help? no? from the top manufactures there is a car for everyones driving style, but a proper setup makes the car fell just right. I laugh at people that put there kits together with the best of best equipment and do not set them up properly, don't bother asking for help and then go around trashing he brand. All cars have cons and pros (drivetrain included) its just what feels good for you. Like myself I loved the Mbx5r and could not drive the mbx6, too light a twitchy for me.
Oh of course I think it does make a difference, but the driver is still the number one factor in the equation. I think that when you drive as good as Tebo, Maifield, or Cavalieri, then equipment is even more important than at a club level. My question is, would they win by a larger margin if they hopped brands ( like I stated, I LOVED that RC8T for the last 3 seasons, but, my Serpent outshines it for my driving style, even though I was quite fast with the RC8T, I'm faster with the Serpent and I haven't really played around with my setup much )
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:21 PM   #13
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The 2011 Xray Drivetrain is pretty centered.

http://www.teamxray.com/teamxray/sho...7f0dc57c5c8ddc
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Old 08-09-2011, 06:57 PM   #14
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Great replies guys.

I know angled requires more maintenance. What I was after was more about whether you feel a straight centre drive-train gives the car a more balanced feel especially on power when twist force is applied. Not sure if I'm making sense. Do you think the inertia of the centre drive-train when power is constantly being applied on and off matters when it's straight or angled, or rear is straight and front is really angled? Is it less important than weight balance?

I agree to an extent that great steerer's can win with most cars. But is it a coincidence that the last what? 10 WC's and most major big races have been won with buggy's that have an extremely straight centre drive-line as opposed to going for a more "modern" everything narrow and in the centre with angled drive-train design? I don't know, maybe it doesn't matter. But even recently at the Euros I noticed again Mugen and Kysho dominating, both with extremely straight centre drive-trains.

Also Serpent being a Dutch European brand I was surprised to see hardly no presence at the Euros this year. I had a good look at a Serpent recently, and it really is a racers car. So many little things that other manufacturers don't do. I'm very surprised (other than Billy) that the Cobra hasn't had more success. Maybe not enough racing it? Or not enough talent racing it? Not sure.

On the Xray I think there are a lot more cars with straighter centre drive-trains. I like how Xray persist with the being "made in Europe" and their quality of parts. I just don't like their design. Seems like everything was an afterthought or modification. Not having a dig at their quality, just their design. Maybe that's why they come out with a new kit every year, constantly trying to make it work.

Once again thanks to anyone who has added to this discussion. It's great to read racers opinions on this and what they feel is more important. It's a topic that I think is the main fundamental difference between buggies. You have in the one corner the Losi narrow central types (Agama, JQ etc) and in the other corner the Kyosho wide straight drive-train types (Mugen, Associated, HB etc).

Would it be fair to say a car like the Serpent 811 is somewhere in the middle of these two groups? Not sure. Maybe more towards the narrow group.
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Old 08-09-2011, 07:34 PM   #15
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...Also Serpent being a Dutch European brand I was surprised to see hardly no presence at the Euros this year. I had a good look at a Serpent recently, and it really is a racers car. So many little things that other manufacturers don't do. I'm very surprised (other than Billy) that the Cobra hasn't had more success. Maybe not enough racing it? Or not enough talent racing it? Not sure...Would it be fair to say a car like the Serpent 811 is somewhere in the middle of these two groups? Not sure. Maybe more towards the narrow group.
Very well stated. I do honestly believe that if Serpent was to sign up a couple of today hot-shoes, they would be seeing plenty of podium finishes. You can only expect so much out of Billy since he's also so involved on the R&D end of the scale. Serpent does include many details in their cars that are well thought out. It seems like they took the best ideas that others have incorporated, put them all together, and added their own ideas into the mix and made a great car.
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