R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Nitro Off-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-11-2007, 03:03 AM   #3256
Tech Addict
 
RCRacing.com.au's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Meakin Park, Brisbane
Posts: 554
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Talking

Ok to sum up the shock positions here it goes:
When the shock is moved inwards on the bottom (stood up right) it is easier to compress the shock as you have more leverage on the shock because it is closer to the pivot point (Hing Pin) on the chassis.
When you lay the shock down you create less leverage but there is another factor here which no has thought of...
When a spring is compressed it gets harder every millimetre you compress it? Correct?
So when the shock is upright it is initially softer but gets harder very quickly because every centimetre the wheel travels up the shock compresses more so then when it is layed down.
This is because the bottom of the shock is closer to the hinge point not the moving point... getting technical now hey...
So when you lay a shock down the shock gives more progressive softness and is actually softer because for every cm the wheel moves up the shock doesn't compress as much as if it were standing up and closer on the bottom.
I hope i'm not losing anyone...
So my test results today where that when i moved the rear shock bottoms out i had less travel but more rear grip.... softer rear and more stable.
I then moved the front shocks out on the bottom and it got worse and didn't handle as well.
So here's a weird but effective set up with the bottoms rear on the outside and the bottom front on the inside.
I also had to back the front sway bar to 0mm and increase the rear sway bar to 3mm to give me more steering due to more rear grip.
Weird but it worked strangely enough.
It seemed to make the buggy more stable and once i dialed back in my steering it felt fast... then my motor kept flaming out so i had had enough.
It flamed out every race and i broke a clutch bell so i qualified 10th in the B Main but got to 1st place within the 1st lap (go figure) as the buggy was very fast and stable to drive.
After 2 flame outs and my mechanic couldn't work out my starter box (easy as) i'd lost too much time so i didn't bother or i would have been more frustrated.
So does anyone want to buy 2 Novarossi Plus 21-5T's?
I can't tune these things for some reason.
Both got 5 litres on them of Sidewinder fuel with 25% nitro(best on the market).
$250AU each.
I'm going to change engines and hopefully have better luck.
I hope this set up helps someone.
Oils i ran Losi 40wt front and 30wt rear.
__________________
Steve P
LCORCCC - Life Member
100 Cubic Inch Thumping V-Twin Victory Hammer 8-Ball!
-Stuff for sale-
CRT.5 - OS .12TZ (P) All reasonable offers Considered!
RCRacing.com.au is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2007, 03:20 AM   #3257
Tech Apprentice
 
Crocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Wellington - New Zealand
Posts: 68
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by macnkitty2002
i'm sorry to say but that's not right. less force is required to compress the shock when it is more verticle because all the force is being applied in the direction in which the shock is lined up.
Hi macnkitty2002, I do like your train explaination however I tend to disagree with your arguement.
I feel the shock would appear softer when laid down but would not have the same dampening as it would standing upright. (no I dont come from a touring car background)
Let me try and explain my logic.
Imagine yourself standing upright with your arms about 15cm out from your body, now if someone lifted you from directly below your hands you can take a lot of force (probably lifting yourself off the ground.) before your arm lifted.
Now imagine yourself standing upright with your arms about 40cm out from your body, now if someone lifted you from directly below your hands your arms would tend to go up instead of your whole body, this is because you would need to exert a lot most pressure to overcome the leverage created by this angle. therefore relating this back to our cars suspension, the more angled the shocks the less force it takes to raise the suspension making it appear softer.
Also the more angled the shock the less the piston moves inwards per mm of suspension travel therefore the spring would appear softer and I feel the oils dampening would not be as good as less oil is being displaced within the shock body.

I would suggest for a bumpy track surface to soften the springs and having the shock mounted more upright for maximum the oils dampening effect. Just my 2cent

Heres a link to a great site if you are into reading about the physics behind any changes you make to your RC cars - http://users.pandora.be/elvo
And in particular the topic we have just been discussing - http://users.pandora.be/elvo/3/8.html

Last edited by Crocket; 03-11-2007 at 03:41 AM.
Crocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2007, 09:17 AM   #3258
Tech Elite
 
macnkitty2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 4,923
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
I would suggest for a bumpy track surface to soften the springs and having the shock mounted more upright for maximum the oils dampening effect. Just my 2cent
yes! this is exactly what i was trying to say!

Quote:
therefore relating this back to our cars suspension, the more angled the shocks the less force it takes to raise the suspension making it appear softer.
Also the more angled the shock the less the piston moves inwards per mm of suspension travel therefore the spring would appear softer and I feel the oils dampening would not be as good as less oil is being displaced within the shock body.
i guess i was trying to explain what was really going on in the shock rather than was the buggy feels like it's doing (which often contradicts what is really going on). the car might appear to have a softer suspension, however it is really not dampening as much as a softer suspension would.

wow, this is a great debate we have going here!
__________________
Team Associated RC10B4.2
Losi Rock Rey
macnkitty2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2007, 09:32 AM   #3259
Tech Champion
 
jfc_tech's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: www.JonehRC.com
Posts: 7,000
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to jfc_tech
Default

ok... to sum it all up from what i understood here:

soft suspension, stand the shock vertically
hard suspension, lay it down near to horizontally.
correct?

thats what im doing with all my setup. of coz minus the spring, shock oil things.
__________________
If you are in front of me, That's because I let you!
jfc_tech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2007, 11:29 AM   #3260
Tech Adept
 
chrlie sidebite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: phx
Posts: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc_tech
ok... to sum it all up from what i understood here:

soft suspension, stand the shock vertically
hard suspension, lay it down near to horizontally.
correct?

thats what im doing with all my setup. of coz minus the spring, shock oil things.

Wrong....thats backwards
chrlie sidebite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2007, 12:00 PM   #3261
Tech Champion
 
jfc_tech's Avatar
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: www.JonehRC.com
Posts: 7,000
Trader Rating: 4 (100%+)
Send a message via Yahoo to jfc_tech
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrlie sidebite
Wrong....thats backwards
are you sure?
This is from crocket, i quote:
Quote:
I would suggest for a bumpy track surface to soften the springs and having the shock mounted more upright for maximum the oils dampening effect. Just my 2cen
ohhh i said to soften the suspension... crocket said to soften the springs. Any different there?

what i found out, when i use stand up shock, it works perfectly with bumpy track. meaning the idea of making the suspension soft for easier suspension articulation or movement is by standing it up... . still wrong? Maybe in the terms. be warned. english is my 3rd language.
__________________
If you are in front of me, That's because I let you!
jfc_tech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2007, 04:02 PM   #3262
Tech Elite
 
macnkitty2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 4,923
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

i think we are all getting mixed up here between soft springs, soft damping, and more or less forces. oh the calamity!
__________________
Team Associated RC10B4.2
Losi Rock Rey
macnkitty2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2007, 04:21 PM   #3263
Tech Regular
 
norman2cycle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Mass
Posts: 424
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Hello guys to change the subject a little bit I can't seem to find the dace skid plate for my jammin x1-cr fte I checked a few online stores and they don't have it. Anybody can share some light where to get it
thanks
norman2cycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2007, 05:14 PM   #3264
Tech Elite
 
Tabushi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Chile - Southamerica
Posts: 3,029
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Tabushi Send a message via Yahoo to Tabushi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by norman2cycle
Hello guys to change the subject a little bit I can't seem to find the dace skid plate for my jammin x1-cr fte I checked a few online stores and they don't have it. Anybody can share some light where to get it
thanks


Man why you want that skid ? ... you dont need it, thats for the CRT, i tryed one for the buggy but it seems that end too low ...

Anyway, here you have it : http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/5408

Its out of stock, but you can email amain and they will get it in stock for sure ...

good luck,
__________________
Patricio "PATO" Concha

E-Mail : pato_concha@yahoo.com
Facebook : http://www.facebook.com/patoconcha
Whatsapp : +56 9 66165085
Tabushi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2007, 05:24 PM   #3265
Tech Elite
 
macnkitty2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 4,923
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...oducts_id/5408

does this help?


well i certainly had a great day of racing today. 2nd race meet of the season, much warmer than the 1st race, 67f and sunny. i had a terrible time at the first race, so i felt the urge to redeem myself. i was just installing my engine back into the buggy a few minutes before i left for the race, so i did not know what to expect. i made a few changes to my setup from the last time, so i hoped they would make a difference.
i always start off the day well when my engine gear mesh is correct! (haha, that was a joke, ok not really ). i made a few practice runs and changed a few things here and there like ride height and front toe. i my buggy seemed to push more as the track dried out, so i switched to crime fighters in the rear and kept my K2s on the front. with this i was able to throw the rear end around more easily and pivot around the 180s we have on my track. however, the track got drier and the rear slipped a little too much, so i went back to K2s all around.
three rounds of heats came and went, with me getting the lucky draw every time (being pitted against the bad drivers ). i made quick work of the competition and grabbed the TQ for the day. however my engine could not hold a tune, whenever i would get it right just after a race, i would start it back up for my next qualifier and the engine would bog again (sometimes a lean bog sometimes a rich bog). i think i have a faulty front bearing that has an air leak because there is a lot of oil under my engine and especially around the flywheel. however, slow is fast as i went on to win the A main quite handily. i kept the car on the track (unlike a majority of the other racers) and drove nice and smoothly with a bogging engine. my only competition was the track owner, whose engine was way lean and he slid around all over the place. quite a good day indeed.
__________________
Team Associated RC10B4.2
Losi Rock Rey
macnkitty2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2007, 05:38 PM   #3266
Tech Regular
 
norman2cycle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Mass
Posts: 424
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

thanks for the links guys I know that the skid plate is for the crt but I just want to protect the chassis of my car a little bit!!
thanks

Hey tabushi did you check out that race that there going to have in Puerto Rico?
norman2cycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2007, 05:47 PM   #3267
Tech Initiate
 
AZRCaddict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Where Racing Was Fun
Posts: 44
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default






Huge thank you to Jay Halsey & Ross Denny!
__________________
Team EMB
AZRCaddict is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2007, 06:19 PM   #3268
Tech Elite
 
Tabushi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Chile - Southamerica
Posts: 3,029
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Tabushi Send a message via Yahoo to Tabushi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by norman2cycle
thanks for the links guys I know that the skid plate is for the crt but I just want to protect the chassis of my car a little bit!!
thanks

Hey tabushi did you check out that race that there going to have in Puerto Rico?

Yes man, but its too far from Chile hehehehe ... Venezuela wants to be the country when the 2008 southamerican championship take place (this year its in my country, Chile), and as i think i will be working in Colombia, will be a short trip to Venezuela to race ... but Puert Rico, too far man !!

cya,
__________________
Patricio "PATO" Concha

E-Mail : pato_concha@yahoo.com
Facebook : http://www.facebook.com/patoconcha
Whatsapp : +56 9 66165085
Tabushi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2007, 06:28 PM   #3269
Tech Regular
 
norman2cycle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Mass
Posts: 424
Trader Rating: 3 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tabushi
Yes man, but its too far from Chile hehehehe ... Venezuela wants to be the country when the 2008 southamerican championship take place (this year its in my country, Chile), and as i think i will be working in Colombia, will be a short trip to Venezuela to race ... but Puert Rico, too far man !!

cya,
Yeah its a little bit to far! But I live in Mass so its far from me to!!!lol
I was raised in Puerto Rico so I might start planning the trip to that race
norman2cycle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2007, 07:11 PM   #3270
Tech Elite
 
macnkitty2002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 4,923
Trader Rating: 7 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Huge thank you to Jay Halsey & Ross Denny!
what? did you get that stuff for free or something?
__________________
Team Associated RC10B4.2
Losi Rock Rey
macnkitty2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jammin/Hongnor X1 - so close yet so far jono mad racer Nitro Off-Road 5 05-08-2011 06:40 AM
anybody close ????? slowpokeRRR Minnesota and North/South Dakota Racing 0 08-24-2007 10:21 PM
close please pwnzor R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 0 06-29-2007 12:40 PM
close Big B R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 0 02-02-2007 10:29 PM
please close racenut123 R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 1 04-30-2003 05:08 PM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 02:43 PM.


Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net