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Old 07-21-2011, 07:39 AM   #46
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They are simply losing customers to other companies such as the Serpent
They are loosing customers PERIOD............
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:52 AM   #47
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They lost ME
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:17 AM   #48
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I think TD is trying to do too much at once with too many products in the pipeline. I would have preferred that they work the kinks out of the DNX408 before moving on to a E-buggy or a Truggy. If you're a small company do one thing, do it RIGHT, then move on and diversify your product line.
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Old 07-21-2011, 11:33 AM   #49
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I think TD is trying to do too much at once with too many products in the pipeline. I would have preferred that they work the kinks out of the DNX408 before moving on to a E-buggy or a Truggy. If you're a small company do one thing, do it RIGHT, then move on and diversify your product line.
This might possibly start a flamewar but I think within 5 years time there wont be a Team Durango at all.
Its actualy the biggest reason why I never got myself a DNX408 even though you gotta love the way it looks. I cant really believe in a company that comes out of nowhere and overengineer everything they make to make people buy them only to realize that they have so many issues theyre a pain to even get to run. And then when you do get it to run you need to be a pro driver to find a setup that works, barely.
Its also funny how its lead designer quit all of a sudden for reasons concerning the company management. Its also funny how they write contracts with drivers lasting for up to 13 years (!?). I mean who does that.

I dont know, for all I know it looks more like the russian mob tried to design a RC car of their own
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:00 PM   #50
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This might possibly start a flamewar but I think within 5 years time there wont be a Team Durango at all.
Its actualy the biggest reason why I never got myself a DNX408 even though you gotta love the way it looks. I cant really believe in a company that comes out of nowhere and overengineer everything they make to make people buy them only to realize that they have so many issues theyre a pain to even get to run. And then when you do get it to run you need to be a pro driver to find a setup that works, barely.
Its also funny how its lead designer quit all of a sudden for reasons concerning the company management. Its also funny how they write contracts with drivers lasting for up to 13 years (!?). I mean who does that.

I dont know, for all I know it looks more like the russian mob tried to design a RC car of their own
i can respect that point of view, but every new car has issues. And have you seen what happends to companies that just throw out another 1 off design?? how many MBX5 and losi remakes have we seen. Durango will be around for a long time.

i think their designer left because Gerd wasn't allowing him to design the cars to his full extent (over designing them it sounded like) and i'm sure Cav, Drake, Maifield, Tebo have uber long contracts aswell. trust you don't want to lose drivers like that.

i do agree they have too much on their plate but alot of that has to do with our demands.. they never said the Truggy or E Buggy would be out within a certain time frame. they just said "hey, we're working on it." we want everything now. Unfortunately a small team of designers, still working the kinks out of the current cars, will make everything take longer. but the end result will be well worth it.

i will put money on when the new Buggy, Truggy and Ebuggy come out they'll be damn near perfect. which is why its taking the time it has
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:25 PM   #51
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i can respect that point of view, but every new car has issues. And have you seen what happends to companies that just throw out another 1 off design?? how many MBX5 and losi remakes have we seen. Durango will be around for a long time.

i think their designer left because Gerd wasn't allowing him to design the cars to his full extent (over designing them it sounded like) and i'm sure Cav, Drake, Maifield, Tebo have uber long contracts aswell. trust you don't want to lose drivers like that.

i do agree they have too much on their plate but alot of that has to do with our demands.. they never said the Truggy or E Buggy would be out within a certain time frame. they just said "hey, we're working on it." we want everything now. Unfortunately a small team of designers, still working the kinks out of the current cars, will make everything take longer. but the end result will be well worth it.

i will put money on when the new Buggy, Truggy and Ebuggy come out they'll be damn near perfect. which is why its taking the time it has
Well its great that Durango has people who believe in them, I wouldnt wish the death of any RC company.

Yea ofcourse weve seen alot of copies, mostly chinese cars. But weve also seen alot of one offs, unique cars that never really got anywhere.

Usually pro drivers have 3 year contracts, sometimes more, sometimes less. A 13 year contract is something new to me completely, and Ive been doing this since 1998.

When it comes to having too many things on its plate at the same time. Im not entirely sure if I buy that. The durango was released around the same time as the Serpent 811. Serpent doesnt have remotely as many issues as the durango, and theres both a buggy and a truggy out, both which are top of the line basicly.

I think they loose alot of customers from
1. Not fixing the issues fast enough
2. Seemingly having the same people designing all their cars, which takes focus off the cars/projects that needs it.
3. Overengineering basicly everything, making them too complicated for no reason, which adds to issues.
4. Not releasing a truggy fast enough. And this might sound stupid but I think most drivers who drive both classes (and lets face it theres alot) want to drive the same brand in both truggy and buggy cause it makes things much easier. Those drivers would probably opt for something other than the Durango.

I think what lures people to Durango is the fact that the cars look sweet with all the aluminium bling etc. But I think that wears on you after a few weeks/months and after that you just see an expensive car with issues thats really difficult to get to run properly.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:35 PM   #52
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Well its great that Durango has people who believe in them, I wouldnt wish the death of any RC company.

Yea ofcourse weve seen alot of copies, mostly chinese cars. But weve also seen alot of one offs, unique cars that never really got anywhere.

Usually pro drivers have 3 year contracts, sometimes more, sometimes less. A 13 year contract is something new to me completely, and Ive been doing this since 1998.

When it comes to having too many things on its plate at the same time. Im not entirely sure if I buy that. The durango was released around the same time as the Serpent 811. Serpent doesnt have remotely as many issues as the durango, and theres both a buggy and a truggy out, both which are top of the line basicly.

I think they loose alot of customers from
1. Not fixing the issues fast enough
2. Seemingly having the same people designing all their cars, which takes focus off the cars/projects that needs it.
3. Overengineering basicly everything, making them too complicated for no reason, which adds to issues.
4. Not releasing a truggy fast enough. And this might sound stupid but I think most drivers who drive both classes (and lets face it theres alot) want to drive the same brand in both truggy and buggy cause it makes things much easier. Those drivers would probably opt for something other than the Durango.

I think what lures people to Durango is the fact that the cars look sweet with all the aluminium bling etc. But I think that wears on you after a few weeks/months and after that you just see an expensive car with issues thats really difficult to get to run properly.
Lets predict a companys future we must be bored......
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:38 PM   #53
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Lets predict a companys future we must be bored......
Actualy you have no idea. Start working again on monday from having had 4 weeks vacation where its been raining almost every single day
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:52 PM   #54
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So, I have the durango SCT and I am all for the the over-engineering on here. It's a different mindset than what most of us are used to, but I consider it a european way of thinking. Look at the auto industry and how cars that we would never consider years ago have really started to push the envelope and Americans are buying them. And as far as setups go, sure the pro drivers are figuring them out and they are sharing just about every bit of that information with us. I could not ask for more. When was the last time you actually saw Adam Drake post a new setup? Lutz seems to keep posting different ones after every race. I am glad they have no release dates also, because that leads to nothing more than a bunch of people on here complaining about it being a week late due to the shipment stuck on a ship in the middle of the ocean somewhere.

I too wanted to replace my losi 2.0 truggy at the beginning of the season. I was seriously ready to buy the serpent. One thing changed my mind and I decided to wait was the the durango short course truck that I purchased. Some vehicles seem to fit different styles of drivers and none of them are going to magically make any of us look like pros without putting in our own time and practicing. I only look forward to having a durango truggy for next season. If I get it before that time, then so be it.

The part that I see funny is we went from the wars of JQ and Durango and now we are moving on to the Serpent and the Durango. In six months, it will be something else.
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Old 07-21-2011, 04:26 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Lilja View Post
This might possibly start a flamewar but I think within 5 years time there wont be a Team Durango at all.
Its actualy the biggest reason why I never got myself a DNX408 even though you gotta love the way it looks. I cant really believe in a company that comes out of nowhere and overengineer everything they make to make people buy them only to realize that they have so many issues theyre a pain to even get to run. And then when you do get it to run you need to be a pro driver to find a setup that works, barely.
Its also funny how its lead designer quit all of a sudden for reasons concerning the company management. Its also funny how they write contracts with drivers lasting for up to 13 years (!?). I mean who does that.

I dont know, for all I know it looks more like the russian mob tried to design a RC car of their own
I wish there was a button to remove peoples posts who make comments and don't know the FACTS.

*one* of the designers quit because he wasn't willing to work within the parameters of the company. He wanted to be free to work and design anything he wanted instead of having to stay within a budget to keep pricing reasonable. That's his prerogative, not a negative against Durango.

Also there is no contract for 13 years. I have the contract you are referencing which is for 10 years. You perhaps may think this is ridiculous or absurd but you know what, for Durango and myself it's a great deal that was mutually agreed upon. I would never have signed a 10 year deal with a company I didn't believe in. I am a loyal person and I hate having to change companies. I ran Durango and talked with Management for 3 months before making any deals. I liked what I saw. The companies vision, the people behind it, and their philosophies all made it easy for me to sign a 10 year deal.
The *13 Year* contract you are mistakingly quoting was JQ Mocking my deal by signing a driver to 13 years....Said driver is now back to running Kyosho after 1 month!!

You may think the Durango is full of all kinds of problems and I'm not here to say it is perfect. However it's a darn good car and with the people behind it will only get better and better. I'm proud to be a part of Team Durango and represent their products. If you want to bash, go ahead, but at least get your facts straight.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:03 PM   #56
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I wish there was a button to remove peoples posts who make comments and don't know the FACTS.

*one* of the designers quit because he wasn't willing to work within the parameters of the company. He wanted to be free to work and design anything he wanted instead of having to stay within a budget to keep pricing reasonable. That's his prerogative, not a negative against Durango.

Also there is no contract for 13 years. I have the contract you are referencing which is for 10 years. You perhaps may think this is ridiculous or absurd but you know what, for Durango and myself it's a great deal that was mutually agreed upon. I would never have signed a 10 year deal with a company I didn't believe in. I am a loyal person and I hate having to change companies. I ran Durango and talked with Management for 3 months before making any deals. I liked what I saw. The companies vision, the people behind it, and their philosophies all made it easy for me to sign a 10 year deal.
The *13 Year* contract you are mistakingly quoting was JQ Mocking my deal by signing a driver to 13 years....Said driver is now back to running Kyosho after 1 month!!

You may think the Durango is full of all kinds of problems and I'm not here to say it is perfect. However it's a darn good car and with the people behind it will only get better and better. I'm proud to be a part of Team Durango and represent their products. If you want to bash, go ahead, but at least get your facts straight.
Well said! I call it noise, just have to tune it out.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:37 PM   #57
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I wish there was a button to remove peoples posts who make comments and don't know the FACTS.

*one* of the designers quit because he wasn't willing to work within the parameters of the company. He wanted to be free to work and design anything he wanted instead of having to stay within a budget to keep pricing reasonable. That's his prerogative, not a negative against Durango.

Also there is no contract for 13 years. I have the contract you are referencing which is for 10 years. You perhaps may think this is ridiculous or absurd but you know what, for Durango and myself it's a great deal that was mutually agreed upon. I would never have signed a 10 year deal with a company I didn't believe in. I am a loyal person and I hate having to change companies. I ran Durango and talked with Management for 3 months before making any deals. I liked what I saw. The companies vision, the people behind it, and their philosophies all made it easy for me to sign a 10 year deal.
The *13 Year* contract you are mistakingly quoting was JQ Mocking my deal by signing a driver to 13 years....Said driver is now back to running Kyosho after 1 month!!

You may think the Durango is full of all kinds of problems and I'm not here to say it is perfect. However it's a darn good car and with the people behind it will only get better and better. I'm proud to be a part of Team Durango and represent their products. If you want to bash, go ahead, but at least get your facts straight.
Seems like I managed to do what I was fearing and stepping on quiet a few toes here
I never said anything about why the designer quit more than that it was because of the companies management, which you kinda said yourself there. And if Im not mistaken there were only 2 designers at that time? Its unimportant though. Its also unimportant if it was 10 or 13 years, it said 13 years on neobuggy but the point was that its a freakishly long time to sign a contract on. ALOT can happen in 10 years of racing. Companies come and go, Durango is still a small company and still needs to sell their products to cover from all the productioncosts of all the new cars theyre making.

Fact also stands that its a difficult car to setup and its a difficult car to drive, because it has immense steering. It might not be for you, but it will be for the weekend racer, you know the people who will carry the company, cause theyre the ones thats going to buy the cars. And as I said earlier, shiny aluminiumparts WILL NOT make up for a frustrating car to own, not in the long run.

I didnt write this to be a troll and bash on other brands, I wrote this because my personal oppinion from what you hear about Durango on forums, places like Neobuggy and others, and from people running the Durango is that Durango seems to have a very odd way of running its business. Seeing as how its a new brand on the market, it needs to stand out as something better, which I really dont think it has. And I really dont think JQ has succeed in that either.
But only time will tell, and Im man enough to admit if I was wrong, and I honestly and truely hope that I am.
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:49 PM   #58
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Seems like I managed to do what I was fearing and stepping on quiet a few toes here
I never said anything about why the designer quit more than that it was because of the companies management, which you kinda said yourself there. And if Im not mistaken there were only 2 designers at that time? Its unimportant though. Its also unimportant if it was 10 or 13 years, it said 13 years on neobuggy but the point was that its a freakishly long time to sign a contract on. ALOT can happen in 10 years of racing. Companies come and go, Durango is still a small company and still needs to sell their products to cover from all the productioncosts of all the new cars theyre making.

Fact also stands that its a difficult car to setup and its a difficult car to drive, because it has immense steering. It might not be for you, but it will be for the weekend racer, you know the people who will carry the company, cause theyre the ones thats going to buy the cars. And as I said earlier, shiny aluminiumparts WILL NOT make up for a frustrating car to own, not in the long run.

I didnt write this to be a troll and bash on other brands, I wrote this because my personal oppinion from what you hear about Durango on forums, places like Neobuggy and others, and from people running the Durango is that Durango seems to have a very odd way of running its business. Seeing as how its a new brand on the market, it needs to stand out as something better, which I really dont think it has. And I really dont think JQ has succeed in that either.
But only time will tell, and Im man enough to admit if I was wrong, and I honestly and truely hope that I am.
It looks like you have already moved on to the serpent. Did you try running some toe in on the front or add exponential through your radio to help with the massive amount of steering? The short course truck was the same way and once adding exponential to it, the car was fine.
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Old 07-21-2011, 06:11 PM   #59
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When it comes to having too many things on its plate at the same time. Im not entirely sure if I buy that. The durango was released around the same time as the Serpent 811. Serpent doesnt have remotely as many issues as the durango, and theres both a buggy and a truggy out, both which are top of the line basicly.

I think they loose alot of customers from
1. Not fixing the issues fast enough
2. Seemingly having the same people designing all their cars, which takes focus off the cars/projects that needs it.
3. Overengineering basicly everything, making them too complicated for no reason, which adds to issues.
4. Not releasing a truggy fast enough. And this might sound stupid but I think most drivers who drive both classes (and lets face it theres alot) want to drive the same brand in both truggy and buggy cause it makes things much easier. Those drivers would probably opt for something other than the Durango.

I think what lures people to Durango is the fact that the cars look sweet with all the aluminium bling etc. But I think that wears on you after a few weeks/months and after that you just see an expensive car with issues thats really difficult to get to run properly.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree on the concept of the Durango vehicles being "over engineered". The 408's design is brilliant in my opinion but not perfect. If it weren't for the leaking fuel tank and center differential my DNX408 is not difficult to get running or handling properly at all. It's simply the most stable yet responsive buggy chassis I've ever driven. That's not an easy combination to achieve!

All cars have issues and the Serpent was no exception. What turned me away from Serpent was when they continued to deny the problems and even blamed their customers for a period of time. I wanted nothing to do with that so I waited for the Durango buggy instead. But that leads to your point #1, at least once they admitted the problem was with their design, Serpent made quick fixes that worked. TD is letting this fuel tank issue linger too long. A new design should have been the company's top priority in my opinion and this should have been addressed by now. Instead, as you mention in your point #2, they're busy putting out a SCT, a E-buggy, and now a Truggy - meanwhile their premier product, their 1/8 nitro buggy, has lingering issues.
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Old 07-21-2011, 06:11 PM   #60
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Hey lutz, I appreciate the communication,help,loyalty and clarification.how many other team drivers have websites,blogs,tips,posts,etc.?
I've seen savoya post on the rb engine and giving help.
Dont see much other team drivers helping that much.
Thank you.
Again,all of these mass produced toy cars ,made of plastic,that we strap a 3hp nitromethane engine in them and run the crap out of them are going to have issues.
The Durango thread is kinda quiet. We are running our buggies.! for me it's easy to drive and easy to setup.it seems the only issue is the tank for some of us,still hasn't happened to me, and I run the crap out of mine! but I also have plenty of tire glue to seal up any leaky seams.
Yea I'd like a TD truggy since it'll share parts,when? Just have to wait.but when it comes out and I get one, I'll run the crap out of it too!

Again thanks to all team Durango drivers for sharing,posting,and winning!

Rock On!!!
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