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Old 02-02-2011, 05:48 PM   #61
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What you describing is soaking up a jump to not launch as high and you will loose a major amount of speed doing that. When a scrub is preformed properly you are going way faster at the face of the jump then you would if you were to not scrub it. But like you stated this is not an MX lesson. If you want those and live in MN PM me and i will be glad to help you out.
That's funny . I would wager maxey would teach you an mx lesson or 2 . I watched him for 10 years make many many passes over jumps at least a gear higher than most everyone else . Kid can still kill it on an mx bike even though his right arm is shot .
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:07 PM   #62
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WRONG! Like is said the twitching in air is to show off, the turning in air to set up for a new jump isn't. I also said scrubing is nothing like dirtbike scrubs. Maybe you didnt understand how i wrote it but it defanitly is RIGHT. Turn tires back and forth in air does nothing but for show, I do it all the time for fun. Pitching the car like i said totally diffrent approch its to help set up for a sharp quick turn.
I promise you turning the wheels back and forth in the air does something. You can either take my word for it, or actually learn how to do it yourself. Either way, it does make a difference in the way the car flies. Turning the wheels in the air will flatten the car out after a bad takeoff. It is especially useful on a blown out track with blown out jump faces. It is also used to set the car up for a corner immediately following the jump. So I say again, it is NOT for show(when done properly and used in the proper situation). I'm not saying people don't ever do it just for show, but it is definitely used to be faster and/or cleaner when landing..
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:16 PM   #63
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I promise you turning the wheels back and forth in the air does something. You can either take my word for it, or actually learn how to do it yourself. Either way, it does make a difference in the way the car flies. Turning the wheels in the air will flatten the car out after a bad takeoff. It is especially useful on a blown out track with blown out jump faces. It is also used to set the car up for a corner immediately following the jump. So I say again, it is NOT for show(when done properly and used in the proper situation). I'm not saying people don't ever do it just for show, but it is definitely used to be faster and/or cleaner when landing..
+1

twitching the wheel back and forth, from what ive figured out just doing it, it seems to help slow the buggy/truggy down in the air so that you can hit the jump faster and still not over jump or go to fast into the turn.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:32 PM   #64
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Old 02-02-2011, 09:49 PM   #65
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Ok guys lets end this once and for all...... Turning your wheels in the air DOES HELP....

To begin, when you are leaving the face of a jump and have a downside with no immediate turns afterwards it provides no benefit, as you see in earlier post of Fish Daddy(B.Fischer) not doing it on jumps with no soon to follow turns. However, when you have a downside and jump right afterwards you ALWAYS want to do it. Several reasons, positioning of the car, lateral forces and speed.

Positioning of the car is important. Its pretty basic, you want the car setup to make the smoothest most effiecient turn, the rounder the faster.

Lateral forces of the car.....this is the long section..... When you are landing a jump with a turn immediately afterwards you want to turn the wheels the opposite way of the jump. This puts all of the forces on that side of the car. With this being said, if the jump turns right, have the wheels turned left. This changes the placed weight of the car on the shocks amongst landing. So when you land, most of the lateral weight will be on the right side of the car. So when taking that right hand turn and all of the transitional weight is already on the right hand side of the car, you are able to pick up the throttle quicker, as well as the car being more stabile. The reason this is functional is that the left side of the car has yet to be affected by the redistribution of forces. With that being said, as you are picking up the throttle and already in the corner, THEN the weight is transferred back to the left side, but at this point the car is already through most of the corner and is starting to level out, thus rarely does it upset the car.

Now for you nay-sayers out there. Imagine if you are jumping into the same right hand corner with the wheels to the right. By doing this you have already put all of the transitional weight(lateral forces) on that side of the car. So when you land, muchless carrying speed, your car with either flip due to the left side already being loaded with weight, or the ass end of the car will come around and you will be facing the other direction or the pipe before you will know what hit you.

Most importantly, doing this makes you faster and will help you find those precious tenths of a second, hell maybe even a second.

Now as far as scrubbing speed, there are several ways to do it. I am by no means mixing it up with the MX guys because, well frankly I am not that good on a dirt bike. When hitting a jump you can "load" the jump but approaching the jump fast and easing off of the throttle, thus allowing you to fly just high and far enough to clear any jump without over powering the jump.. keeps the car lower and more controllable....its what we do in 2wd. Secondly, you can hit the jump as hard as you want and jam the brakes right before you leave the lip, this will send the car off nose down and allows the air to push the rear end down. This is fun, fast and rough on equipment. Its fun because it looks kewl and sounds even better. Fast because the car is positioned already to downside and you can already be bringing the power back before you hit the downside. Its rough on the equpiment because you are jamming your throttle servo to full lock on every jump every lap, wears stuff out quick. Also if you over brake the jump, you have to death rev the engine to bring the nose of the car back up.

Pretty sure I covered everything.

Also, if you still dont believe, ask around and find out how Greg Degani murdered everyone at the 2000 worlds. It was because of the transitional turning in the air.
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Old 02-02-2011, 10:05 PM   #66
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agreed. if you can do this consistently it is definitely a one up on the track!
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Old 02-03-2011, 01:23 AM   #67
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lets call it aero scrub because thats all that can be done with an rc car as far as scrubing goes.

i have tested this before with leaving the face of a jump and tap the breaks so the the cars nose is angled down thus areo pushing it down.

all other is just pitching setting up for a turn

with scrubing you need a rider to preload suspention (cant be done in rc there is always rebound before flight) shift weight forward throwing the bike forward off a jump without rebounding, rebounding is done by the suspention in flight with no verticle effect.....its called inertia...a rider will use his weight to create inertia going forward to keep low and the suspention to re3bound to release in flight having no verticle effect at take off


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Old 02-03-2011, 08:03 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by j_blaze14 View Post
if you have a lander that ends right at a turn, in a double turn the wheels the way of the turn as you are rising the face of the jump. the car will fly straight with a bit of sideways action. if in a triple when you come off the jump you turn the wheels opposite of the turn thats coming up next, inertia will make the back end of the car move the same direction the wheels turn (if wheels turned left the back of the car goes left making the car face more to the right), right before you land you turn the wheels the opposite way and you are half way around the turn before you even land. it helps if done right, if done wrong you're certain to crash. if done too much its just a bad habit.
as im going over this in my head,this is exactly what i pictured.. makes perfect sense,and i definately have it registered,now to practice this teqnique..thanks
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:06 AM   #69
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Ok guys lets end this once and for all...... Turning your wheels in the air DOES HELP....

To begin, when you are leaving the face of a jump and have a downside with no immediate turns afterwards it provides no benefit, as you see in earlier post of Fish Daddy(B.Fischer) not doing it on jumps with no soon to follow turns. However, when you have a downside and jump right afterwards you ALWAYS want to do it. Several reasons, positioning of the car, lateral forces and speed.

Positioning of the car is important. Its pretty basic, you want the car setup to make the smoothest most effiecient turn, the rounder the faster.

Lateral forces of the car.....this is the long section..... When you are landing a jump with a turn immediately afterwards you want to turn the wheels the opposite way of the jump. This puts all of the forces on that side of the car. With this being said, if the jump turns right, have the wheels turned left. This changes the placed weight of the car on the shocks amongst landing. So when you land, most of the lateral weight will be on the right side of the car. So when taking that right hand turn and all of the transitional weight is already on the right hand side of the car, you are able to pick up the throttle quicker, as well as the car being more stabile. The reason this is functional is that the left side of the car has yet to be affected by the redistribution of forces. With that being said, as you are picking up the throttle and already in the corner, THEN the weight is transferred back to the left side, but at this point the car is already through most of the corner and is starting to level out, thus rarely does it upset the car.

Now for you nay-sayers out there. Imagine if you are jumping into the same right hand corner with the wheels to the right. By doing this you have already put all of the transitional weight(lateral forces) on that side of the car. So when you land, muchless carrying speed, your car with either flip due to the left side already being loaded with weight, or the ass end of the car will come around and you will be facing the other direction or the pipe before you will know what hit you.

Most importantly, doing this makes you faster and will help you find those precious tenths of a second, hell maybe even a second.

Now as far as scrubbing speed, there are several ways to do it. I am by no means mixing it up with the MX guys because, well frankly I am not that good on a dirt bike. When hitting a jump you can "load" the jump but approaching the jump fast and easing off of the throttle, thus allowing you to fly just high and far enough to clear any jump without over powering the jump.. keeps the car lower and more controllable....its what we do in 2wd. Secondly, you can hit the jump as hard as you want and jam the brakes right before you leave the lip, this will send the car off nose down and allows the air to push the rear end down. This is fun, fast and rough on equipment. Its fun because it looks kewl and sounds even better. Fast because the car is positioned already to downside and you can already be bringing the power back before you hit the downside. Its rough on the equpiment because you are jamming your throttle servo to full lock on every jump every lap, wears stuff out quick. Also if you over brake the jump, you have to death rev the engine to bring the nose of the car back up.

Pretty sure I covered everything.

Also, if you still dont believe, ask around and find out how Greg Degani murdered everyone at the 2000 worlds. It was because of the transitional turning in the air.

Thank you, good info Now, what are some driving how to's that most people probably don't know or at very least can't do?
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Old 02-03-2011, 08:22 AM   #70
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If the FAST GUYS have took the time to learn this, it must make them faster. I had a chance to see Truhe run and his car was never flat coming of any jump. Those guys have learned how to get every 10th of a sec out of every lap. I do not believe for one sec that they just do this for show......
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Old 02-03-2011, 09:03 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Black View Post
Ok guys lets end this once and for all...... Turning your wheels in the air DOES HELP....

To begin, when you are leaving the face of a jump and have a downside with no immediate turns afterwards it provides no benefit, as you see in earlier post of Fish Daddy(B.Fischer) not doing it on jumps with no soon to follow turns. However, when you have a downside and jump right afterwards you ALWAYS want to do it. Several reasons, positioning of the car, lateral forces and speed.

Positioning of the car is important. Its pretty basic, you want the car setup to make the smoothest most effiecient turn, the rounder the faster.

Lateral forces of the car.....this is the long section..... When you are landing a jump with a turn immediately afterwards you want to turn the wheels the opposite way of the jump. This puts all of the forces on that side of the car. With this being said, if the jump turns right, have the wheels turned left. This changes the placed weight of the car on the shocks amongst landing. So when you land, most of the lateral weight will be on the right side of the car. So when taking that right hand turn and all of the transitional weight is already on the right hand side of the car, you are able to pick up the throttle quicker, as well as the car being more stabile. The reason this is functional is that the left side of the car has yet to be affected by the redistribution of forces. With that being said, as you are picking up the throttle and already in the corner, THEN the weight is transferred back to the left side, but at this point the car is already through most of the corner and is starting to level out, thus rarely does it upset the car.

Now for you nay-sayers out there. Imagine if you are jumping into the same right hand corner with the wheels to the right. By doing this you have already put all of the transitional weight(lateral forces) on that side of the car. So when you land, muchless carrying speed, your car with either flip due to the left side already being loaded with weight, or the ass end of the car will come around and you will be facing the other direction or the pipe before you will know what hit you.

Most importantly, doing this makes you faster and will help you find those precious tenths of a second, hell maybe even a second.

Now as far as scrubbing speed, there are several ways to do it. I am by no means mixing it up with the MX guys because, well frankly I am not that good on a dirt bike. When hitting a jump you can "load" the jump but approaching the jump fast and easing off of the throttle, thus allowing you to fly just high and far enough to clear any jump without over powering the jump.. keeps the car lower and more controllable....its what we do in 2wd. Secondly, you can hit the jump as hard as you want and jam the brakes right before you leave the lip, this will send the car off nose down and allows the air to push the rear end down. This is fun, fast and rough on equipment. Its fun because it looks kewl and sounds even better. Fast because the car is positioned already to downside and you can already be bringing the power back before you hit the downside. Its rough on the equpiment because you are jamming your throttle servo to full lock on every jump every lap, wears stuff out quick. Also if you over brake the jump, you have to death rev the engine to bring the nose of the car back up.

Pretty sure I covered everything.

Also, if you still dont believe, ask around and find out how Greg Degani murdered everyone at the 2000 worlds. It was because of the transitional turning in the air.
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Old 03-05-2011, 07:01 AM   #72
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Your still scrubbing air time when you drag off the face. This inturn takes your height away keeping you lower instead of staying on it and flying high. You see it in alot of RC racing.
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Old 03-05-2011, 09:57 AM   #73
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You can't scrub a r/c car in the same sense as dirtbike riders do to stay lower in the air. R/C cars don't have a 200lb or so person that can manipulate it like you can on a dirtbike or BMX bike. I use to ride both back in the day. Black has a lot of good info posted, but here's a bit more.

R/C car, turning helps sometimes with control and/or stability of the car in the air depending on it's pitch or roll in the air. Wiggling the wheels sometimes disrupts or stops the car from rolling over in the air as much from a rutted or bad jump face which can sometimes make the car land better or at least on it's wheels when normally it might flip over. Turning or 'scrubbing' the jump for r/c cars is basically just a way to change your driving line to set up after the jumps better. When you're in the air, you have a lot less control and you are slowing down. If you want to go fast, having the tires on the ground works best. Jumping jumps at an angle (when not needed) makes the car stay in the air longer, it's traveling the same distance on the track but has a longer distance it's traveling in the air. The distance on the track is from jump face to jump landing and is a constant in jumping distance. Side view of the jump variable is flight arc and effects the time spent, or wasted, in the air. Higher arc = slower lap times. A top view of the jump the jumping distance in the same if you hit it straight. If you hit the jump at an angle, the line your car travels is at an angle for the same given distance which manes the time spent in the air longer = slower lap times.

The same is true for rhythm sections or timing sections. If you stand beside the jump and trace the lines the car or bike travels in the air and on the ground, more times than not, the line traced that is less curvy will be the fastest. You want the most direct and straight line to go faster....most of the time. However there are times when going big is faster because the additional time you are able to stay on the throttle approaching a jump and the time you are traveling faster in the air immediately after this jump can outweigh the time lost by going big and losing time in the air.

With bikes to jump with a higher flight arc, you can approach jump slower, time your pump or pre-load differently, hit the jump straight, and kind of pull up on the bike. To stay lower, hit the jump faster, allow the bike to come up into your body as much as possible (your body has a lot of influence on the bike), and you can kind of 'scrub' or turn a bit towards the top of the jump to flatten the bike over. This makes the jump face seem longer and flatter giving a flatter flight arc. It changes the effective height of the jump face of where the majority of the mass (bike and person) is at for when you 'leave' the jump.

R/C cars, we can't do this, we don't have a separate body of mass that we can manipulate in the same way. You can sort of control the height of the r/c car though by your approach and speed. It's the same principle, jump lower, hit the jump face as fast as you can, let off the throttle as late and hard as you can while still allowing the car to jump well and with good control in the air. To jump higher, approach the jump slower, accelerate as late as possible and kind of as slow or lazy as possible. The way this works is by the time the shocks/chassis is fully compressed on the jump face. Hitting the jump fast means and decelerating on the face means it's compressed longer, there are two actions forcing the car to stay compressed longer on the jump face. Hitting the jump slower and more lazy gives the car a bit more time towards the peak of the jump for the shocks to extend a bit. The shocks extending is moving the mass of the chassis up and effectively 'pumping' or pulling up on the car like you would on a bike giving a higher flight arc. The circumstances for some jumps, how they are built, and conditions before the jump, means this doesn't hold true for all jumps because you cannot drive differently enough on some jumps for it to make a noticeable difference.
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:57 PM   #74
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I say all of this is almost irrelevant, because about 1% of all R/C drivers can do it effectively. Lots of very valid points, but almost useless when the majority of racers can't carry it out. Michael Schumacher can explain all his techniques to us, but we are not going to win an F1 championship. Most people will break more stuff from wrong landings trying it than will benefit from faster lap times.

In-air steering as a technique os very difficult I don't even try to master it, most of my in-air steering is a "oh $&%^" reaction when the car is too far gone to bring back, .
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Old 03-11-2011, 02:55 PM   #75
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when we see videos of bigger events and tebo ,maifield etc etc are dropping the nose hard on pretty much every jump. are they really hitting the brakes everytime or the car is set up to fly nose down? i assume they are doing it becouse its not every jump that flys that way. just a good %.
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