Negatives to Boiling Plastic Parts?
#16
Tech Lord
iTrader: (148)
hey guys, seems like most posting here have the mugen mbx6t and have broke some arms. I have been running my Mugen for 2 full season's now and have only broke one front a-arm, and i had a pretty bad cart-wheel. I run on a track with lots of huge jumps where alot of the time you flat-land and just dont understand why so many have problems with the a-arms on this car. Now im not accusing any of you of not being able to drive, as im sure most are far better than me, but so far with this car its been a non-issue and parts breaking is at the bottom of my worry list on race day.
#17
hey guys, seems like most posting here have the mugen mbx6t and have broke some arms. I have been running my Mugen for 2 full season's now and have only broke one front a-arm, and i had a pretty bad cart-wheel. I run on a track with lots of huge jumps where alot of the time you flat-land and just dont understand why so many have problems with the a-arms on this car. Now im not accusing any of you of not being able to drive, as im sure most are far better than me, but so far with this car its been a non-issue and parts breaking is at the bottom of my worry list on race day.
#18
Tech Elite
iTrader: (8)
Well I just started to do the boiling method. Arms and Diff cases.
So far no boiled parts have broke.
The question I have is it worth while to tear the whole car down and boil the used parts. At this point I have only boiled new parts.
Great thing about the Mugen though is when you do break an arm it is usually a crack and not a full shatter. Although I have broke it has never caused me to not finish.
So far no boiled parts have broke.
The question I have is it worth while to tear the whole car down and boil the used parts. At this point I have only boiled new parts.
Great thing about the Mugen though is when you do break an arm it is usually a crack and not a full shatter. Although I have broke it has never caused me to not finish.
#20
Well I just started to do the boiling method. Arms and Diff cases.
So far no boiled parts have broke.
The question I have is it worth while to tear the whole car down and boil the used parts. At this point I have only boiled new parts.
Great thing about the Mugen though is when you do break an arm it is usually a crack and not a full shatter. Although I have broke it has never caused me to not finish.
So far no boiled parts have broke.
The question I have is it worth while to tear the whole car down and boil the used parts. At this point I have only boiled new parts.
Great thing about the Mugen though is when you do break an arm it is usually a crack and not a full shatter. Although I have broke it has never caused me to not finish.
And it was totally my fault when I broke the arm. I almost never break parts when racing a quali or a main. But I'm when I'm practicing, my driving is more aggresive and this don't go that smooth.
#21
Tech Regular
iTrader: (21)
Frank as a mugen guy I will say that the 6t is going to be a little more fragile than your losi. Although in 2 years of racing the 6 I have only cracked 1 rear arm. Like the other guy said it didn't put me out of the race just realized it was broken after the race. The fro arms top and bottom on the 6t aren't "weak" but they are probably less durable than the losi stuff. I would boil the front end arms for sure.
#24
Tech Elite
iTrader: (58)
The concept of boiling plastic parts goes back to the material that the parts are made from, which is mostly nylon impregnated plastic, specifically Nylon 6 or Nylon 6/6. The process is better known as conditioning. It does not make the part any stronger overall, it simply allows it to be more flexible, and absorb impact better. "Tougher" would be a better description that "stronger".
Nylon 6 or 6/6 has the ability to absorb moisture, more so than polymers like polyethylene. As a result, the introduction of moisture into the finished part can reduce the brittleness. Be careful though, if the part is brittle due to low moisture content, this will be a good way to increase flexibility. However, if the problem is more related to material degradation during the molding process, conditioning the parts will increase flexibility, but only temporarily, and the brittleness can return over time, once the part is put into use. Murphy's Law says that this will probably happen about half a lap before you do a cart wheel over a big triple
Assuming the part is sound coming out of the mold, it will reach equillibrium naturally through exposure to the atmosphere. If the parts are left in open air, especially in a humid environment (like your spare parts bag in the hot, humid summer months), the process of moisture absorption will occurr by itself, but it will take longer. Conditioning simply accelerates that process.
If you're interested, and like to read techincal papers, there's a very detailed explanation of this process here.
If not, below is the "reader's digest version"...enjoy.
Conditioning plastic parts
Originally by Plasticar
Adding water to the gears works because the material used to make them is nylon. Nylon absorbs moisture, which makes it more flexible and resistant to impact, both of which help it be less likely to break. A common trade name for nylon used in hobby and sporting goods is Zytel, but there are many other brands also.
It is not recommended to actually BOIL the parts, as the higher heat can degrade the material. Rather the suggestion to bring the water just to a boil, then either pour it into another container, or take off the heat and add the parts to sit is a better one. It doesn't take very long to improve the toughness of the gears (or any other nylon parts). 20-30 minutes should be plenty.
This method will not work with any other types of plastic. Delrin, Lexan, none of these are improved in this method. Fortunately, most of the structural parts in RC cars are nylon.
This process does happen naturally, but takes 6-9 months in open air. Once the moisture has been put into the part, it will continue to adjust the level, but this is a permanent condition, as it is mearly accellerating a natural process.
The nylon gears and other parts will not melt in the boiling water. They don't melt until over 200ºC, so unless you have them sitting on the bottom of the pan on high, you are OK. Rather, it is the hot water itself that is the problem. If the water is hot enough for long enough, it will start to break down the plastic itself.
A few mintues on the stovetop should be no problem at all, but you are best as described to remove from heat and let the parts sit in the very hot water that way. That will be more than sufficient to properly condition the parts.
BTW, the majority of the black plastic used in the chassis, drivetrain, suspension pieces is probably nylon and can be conditioned this way if you like. Any of these parts will be harder to break, but will be more flexible. Eventually they will get that way on their own, you are just speeding up the process for your own benefit.
Nylon 6 or 6/6 has the ability to absorb moisture, more so than polymers like polyethylene. As a result, the introduction of moisture into the finished part can reduce the brittleness. Be careful though, if the part is brittle due to low moisture content, this will be a good way to increase flexibility. However, if the problem is more related to material degradation during the molding process, conditioning the parts will increase flexibility, but only temporarily, and the brittleness can return over time, once the part is put into use. Murphy's Law says that this will probably happen about half a lap before you do a cart wheel over a big triple
Assuming the part is sound coming out of the mold, it will reach equillibrium naturally through exposure to the atmosphere. If the parts are left in open air, especially in a humid environment (like your spare parts bag in the hot, humid summer months), the process of moisture absorption will occurr by itself, but it will take longer. Conditioning simply accelerates that process.
If you're interested, and like to read techincal papers, there's a very detailed explanation of this process here.
If not, below is the "reader's digest version"...enjoy.
Conditioning plastic parts
Originally by Plasticar
Adding water to the gears works because the material used to make them is nylon. Nylon absorbs moisture, which makes it more flexible and resistant to impact, both of which help it be less likely to break. A common trade name for nylon used in hobby and sporting goods is Zytel, but there are many other brands also.
It is not recommended to actually BOIL the parts, as the higher heat can degrade the material. Rather the suggestion to bring the water just to a boil, then either pour it into another container, or take off the heat and add the parts to sit is a better one. It doesn't take very long to improve the toughness of the gears (or any other nylon parts). 20-30 minutes should be plenty.
This method will not work with any other types of plastic. Delrin, Lexan, none of these are improved in this method. Fortunately, most of the structural parts in RC cars are nylon.
This process does happen naturally, but takes 6-9 months in open air. Once the moisture has been put into the part, it will continue to adjust the level, but this is a permanent condition, as it is mearly accellerating a natural process.
The nylon gears and other parts will not melt in the boiling water. They don't melt until over 200ºC, so unless you have them sitting on the bottom of the pan on high, you are OK. Rather, it is the hot water itself that is the problem. If the water is hot enough for long enough, it will start to break down the plastic itself.
A few mintues on the stovetop should be no problem at all, but you are best as described to remove from heat and let the parts sit in the very hot water that way. That will be more than sufficient to properly condition the parts.
BTW, the majority of the black plastic used in the chassis, drivetrain, suspension pieces is probably nylon and can be conditioned this way if you like. Any of these parts will be harder to break, but will be more flexible. Eventually they will get that way on their own, you are just speeding up the process for your own benefit.
#25
If you boil stuff, take the whole pot off the stove and let the water cool with the parts in it. You want all of it to cool slowly together. Someone asked about the negatives. The only negative to this is that the arms will become more flexible. If you race in very hot weather, you might not want rubbery arms.
#26
Theres nothing like some front Kyosho A arm stew