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Old 06-30-2010, 05:31 AM   #16
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Does the overall small difference in size really make that much of a difference on the track? I get the gearing part but anybody can change gearing. So what is the big deal. They are a great all around tire for the most part.

I also keep hearing mistake attached to the vtr. Why is it called a mistake when it is actually an advancement in technology that obviously works. hell might as well throw away the bottled water and go back to the hose for a drink. give me a break!

I dont run roar events so I do not worry. I do live in Florida and will not run the Florida state series either. I race because I enjoy it. Hell If I place in the top 5 in truggy at the end of the day it was a great day for me. This is supposed to be a fun hobby. For the ultimate rare few it does provide income. If I am spending my money then I am going to buy what I want to use not what a sanctioning body says I need to use. If I dont agree with the rules then I dont support that event by showing up, paying entry fees and so on.

ROAR is good for one thing in my world. INSURANCE and thats it.
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Old 06-30-2010, 06:35 AM   #17
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ROAR is good for one thing in my world. INSURANCE and thats it.
Insurance! Have you ever heard of any racer using ROAR insurance? I know a fellow race at the carpet nationals a few years back (5 or 6) that hurt himself marshalling, broke his leg. He did not have his own insurance and ROAR DID NOT help him in any way! Please inform me/us as to any insurance claim ever made to ROAR.
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:13 AM   #18
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The tires do not meet the ROAR rules, so unless if ROAR changes the rules for one manufacturer's mistake or not understanding the rules clearly, they will not be ROAR legal. If they do become ROAR legal, then this puts all of the other tire manufacturer's at a disadvantage and a very expensive bill to update their product line which is not the correct thing to do for one manufacturer's mistake. PL is a great company and they make a lot of good products but making others pay for another's mistake is not the correct thing to do.

I understand the rules fine, the mounting bead on truggy wheels is the same 'style' as 1/10 truck or 1/10 buggy with a bead diameter and max wheel diameter(wheel flange OD). Everyone that makes 1/10 truck or 1/10 buggy tires does not have this problem with illegal sized wheels or tire bead diameters. There should not be any debate and on this subject. I think ROAR gets a lot of crap from people thinking ROAR is picking on PL and singling them out when ROAR has not done anything like that. So the race or tracks you race at, depending on the event and how closely they follow the rules will decide if the tires are allowed at that event or not. At a club race I don't see anyone turning away someone b/c they use these tires. At a larger event where there is more scrutinizing going on, they odds are the tires will not be allowed at the event.
While I agree with you about the circumstances, I would love to see all manufacturers switch over to this new style mounting bead. It's just soo much better. The way it should have always been IMO. There's a reason why buggy tires mount the same way. It's stronger, lighter and easier to glue.

I know it would be a major undertaking for other companies to adapt the new style, but it has happened several times already with different design changes to truggy tires. When losi went outside of the box with their truggy tires, everyone adapted. That's how we got to where we are now. It is still a mystery to me how we ended up using T-maxx wheels on out truggies for so long. Losi changed that and invented LPR size tires. The industry adapted. Now Pro-Line has taken it a step further and lost the T-maxx gluing bead for a much better system. I feel that the industry would easily adapt to this change as they have before if they were allowed to.

Innovation is a good thing. Without it we would still be running T-Maxx wheels.

I know you already know all of this Jesse, but some don't.
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:15 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by mattozx6rr View Post
Does the overall small difference in size really make that much of a difference on the track? I get the gearing part but anybody can change gearing. So what is the big deal. They are a great all around tire for the most part.

I also keep hearing mistake attached to the vtr. Why is it called a mistake when it is actually an advancement in technology that obviously works. hell might as well throw away the bottled water and go back to the hose for a drink. give me a break!

I dont run roar events so I do not worry. I do live in Florida and will not run the Florida state series either. I race because I enjoy it. Hell If I place in the top 5 in truggy at the end of the day it was a great day for me. This is supposed to be a fun hobby. For the ultimate rare few it does provide income. If I am spending my money then I am going to buy what I want to use not what a sanctioning body says I need to use. If I dont agree with the rules then I dont support that event by showing up, paying entry fees and so on.

ROAR is good for one thing in my world. INSURANCE and thats it.
It isn't the slight difference in diameter that creates the advantage, but instead the weight saved by the new design. It shaves off a lot of weight from both the tire and wheel. Less rotating mass = quicker acceleration and more agility. It is overall a much simpler, better mounting bead than the standard for truggy tires. Not only is it lighter, but stronger, and easier to glue as well. I'd love to see it become the new standard personally.
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:47 AM   #20
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It isn't the slight difference in diameter that creates the advantage, but instead the weight saved by the new design. It shaves off a lot of weight from both the tire and wheel. Less rotating mass = quicker acceleration and more agility. It is overall a much simpler, better mounting bead than the standard for truggy tires. Not only is it lighter, but stronger, and easier to glue as well. I'd love to see it become the new standard personally.
New stuff keeps this hobby going. ROAR needs to see that.
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Old 06-30-2010, 12:18 PM   #21
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Why is the new forward cab proline buggy body illegal and the jconcepts isnt? i b et someone cried. Proline is always 3 steps ahead of the game and thats why they are ande will be number 1.
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Old 06-30-2010, 12:21 PM   #22
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Man i just wanted to know if i would ever be able to run my favoride truggy tire and it seems i've caused an upROAR. I just think it BS that a company can come up with a great idea and get it shot down because other companies dont want to spend the $ to catch up.
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Old 06-30-2010, 12:55 PM   #23
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Man i just wanted to know if i would ever be able to run my favoride truggy tire and it seems i've caused an upROAR. I just think it BS that a company can come up with a great idea and get it shot down because other companies dont want to spend the $ to catch up.
Agreed!
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Old 06-30-2010, 01:21 PM   #24
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Intresting read,

I would say that "one" day you might see the tire legal, but by then we will be on to the next flavor of the week. I wonder if any mfg. has tried to adopt the bead mounting style of the VTR to a LPR set up. Might work.
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Old 06-30-2010, 01:24 PM   #25
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Perhaps a little perspective on this will help clear up your perception of this situation.

Pro-Line has been making tires for about as long as anyone - perhaps longer than any company that's still in business. They're well aware of the rules governing the sizes of wheels and how they're applied to the products. Add to this the fact that a Pro-Line employee was a member of the fuel off-road committee (now simply the fuel committee) during the time when the development of this product was taking place. Suffice it to say that they have and had all the information they needed to know exactly how to make a product that conforms to the rules. The issue was never about the method of mounting the tires to the wheels, but the mounting diameter of the wheels. They made a wheel that is larger than the rules allow, and that's why it's not legal. It's that simple.

I would like to see them make a wheel that's proper diameter using the same mounting style. I had this discussion with Pro-Line years ago when they first introduced truck tires, while I was working for the magazine. I was curious why they wouldn't use a buggy-style mounting bead instead of something similar to what Traxxas was using. Conceding that the buggy style might be a more universally appealing mounting system, they instead wanted to make wheels and tires that were interchangeable with the Traxxas wheels and tires - makes a lot of sense. Although I don't think there's a particular advantage to one design or the other, they've decided to go the other way with the mounting bead, making them totally non-standard, but that's neither here nor there. Their choice of mounting style doesn't make the tire or the wheel illegal. Pro-Line is free to make any product they want, whether it conforms to the rules or not. But for you guys to blame ROAR that this tire/wheel combo isn't legal is simply ridiculous. It's even more far fetched to expect the rules to change to accommodate ONE tire/wheel line.

Pro-Line has many products that are legal, and they are free to make one that is of legal size if they choose. This isn't about pointing fingers. I know the people at Pro-Line and have had plenty of respect for them and their products for many years. But, you're simply misinformed (the most generous way I can word it) to think that ROAR has any blame or motive in not allowing the use of a product that was intentionally made to NOT be legal.
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Old 06-30-2010, 01:28 PM   #26
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Intresting read,

I would say that "one" day you might see the tire legal, but by then we will be on to the next flavor of the week. I wonder if any mfg. has tried to adopt the bead mounting style of the VTR to a LPR set up. Might work.
There lies the problem. To keep the tire of the same diameter without using an overly large sidewall with the VTR(buggy) style bead, the mounting surface on the rim needs to be slightly larger diameter than the LPR style wheel does. ROAR goes by the mounting surface, not the overall rim diameter. LPR and VTR wheels have almost identical overall diameters, it is the mounting surface diameter that differs. This is what makes the VTR wheel illegal. Without the extra bead "depth" the mounting surface HAS to be larger in diameter. That is what makes the VTR line such a great design though. There is no extra useless rubber on them.
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Old 06-30-2010, 01:40 PM   #27
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Steve, while I agree with some I disagree with other..... It looks like what goes on in Formula 1. someone finds a hole, i.e. the lack of a definition of what constitutes the actual mounting bead, and exploits it and the governing body closes the door on something they weren't clear on in the first place.



and ill save the committee gripe that I have because unlike some racers I have tried in the past to take steps to be a part of those that take action and incite change rather than just complain and all i got was stone walled.
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Old 06-30-2010, 02:02 PM   #28
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Steve, I understand that they made something against the rules, but for years ROAR only enforce the rules it wants to enforce. When losi came out with the forward cab, ROAR should have stepped in then.
Its funny because ROAR makes such a huge stink out of it because THEY DONT LIKE IT. Im more upset about the fact they make a ruling right before a big event. I honestly think that Proline and other companies do not care about the ROAR rules because 90% of racers do not run a ROAR event and Nats is the only race that these rules truly effect. The forward cab bodies, not matter how they look to you personally, the manufacturers cant produce them fast enough and thats the same with the wheels and tires. Despite ROARs evil attempt at trying to dismantlement the racing community with its crooked rules that do not benefit racers in the slightest, those products are selling like a wildfire in windy conditions. Do anyone think that a proline sponsored driver would have won if they were allowed the forward cab and 4 inch wheels? Thats what it comes down to is level playing field and these products do not give an advantage.
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Old 06-30-2010, 04:19 PM   #29
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My advice to the people who make products...make them so people will want them because they are better/faster/cheaper. The rules are only enforced at races where people don't pay for their tires anyway. If the design is better the "racers who buy them" will make them legal simply because that's what they will use and the tracks will sell them.

Rebuild able motors were "illegal" when they first came out...so where lots of things like NIMH and LIPO.
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Old 06-30-2010, 05:36 PM   #30
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mmm..understand a bit and don't..i'm just a small slam racer..don't know much of the rules..so what difference is it between vtr & lpr?any picture to show the difference.it might be easier for me to understand?
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