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Old 06-24-2010, 09:39 PM   #16
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Dezslash,

As mention by creating awareness, we are creating a safer environment for all LIPO users all around the world.

DT
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:31 PM   #17
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First off, I am glad to hear your friends made it out of the fire safely.

I think before this discussion goes further, we need some more information on what exactly happened? This is what I have interpreted so far:

You friend and his family were driving down the road in their automobile and a lipo battery pack randomly combusted like an incendiary bomb. Correct?

How was this battery being transported? Was a lipo sack used?

Why was RC equipment in the automobile at the time of the accident? Were you driving to an RC track or park to use the equipment?

What kind of battery was it? Type. Brand. Cell count. mAh.

How many times had the battery been used?

Did it get balanced regularly?

What was its charge state when it set ablaze, charged, partially discharged, fully discharged?

The answers to these questions and many more are necessary before any more assumptions are made. I think the banning of lipos is excessive and the last thing we need is more litigation to drive up the costs of our products and insurance. If someone was hurt and all the rules and safety precautions were properly followed than the responsible party should step forward. Otherwise we can only hope irresponsible use is not rewarded by attorney fees and insurance payouts. It happens everyday.

More education could help reduce these types of accidents. If safety precautions are not followed than family/friends/assets are at risk. This goes with anything. Lipos are in an RC car only when being used, at all other times they should be stored in a lipo sack or an ammo can to contain the batteries if something happens. Again, I am glad your friends made it out safely. We can only hope everyone stays safe in this hobby, we are all doing this for fun.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:34 AM   #18
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You friend and his family were driving down the road in their automobile and a lipo battery pack randomly combusted like an incendiary bomb. Correct? yes

How was this battery being transported? Was a lipo sack used? no

Why was RC equipment in the automobile at the time of the accident? Were you driving to an RC track or park to use the equipment? Yes...........NO

What kind of battery was it? Type. Brand. Cell count. mAh. I reserve this one. RCtech have rules of brands/flaming issue

How many times had the battery been used? I am unsure

Did it get balanced regularly? I am unsure

What was its charge state when it set ablaze, charged, partially discharged, fully discharged? Charged and disconnected from his rc equipment

End of the day. It is important we understand more about battery. What we buy, who manufacture it and did it manufacture accordance to specs............we are totally unsure of.

As it is categorize as toys battery and most of us ignore it. As mention there's kids who comes into the hobby daily and their parents might not even know the potential danger when they buy toys for their kids.

I only buy the reputated ones....................and have never had problems cause maybe I change my batteries every year and that might minimize my problems.

I can't be sure too, to be very honest. But it needs further evaluation, standards and etc when it comes to battery. Not all lipo battery comes in a casing. Looks at those in RX/TX and even starter box batteries.

As we all are in RC Racing and could have happen to any of us one day. And that's pretty scary for the hobby we all love to be in. More awareness would be good for our hobby.

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Old 06-25-2010, 04:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammin32j View Post
Li-Po are very dangerous battery's. I think sometimes we stop losing respect for them and forget about their dangers. The fact is that they are every where now. They are in cell phones, Lap tops and cameras. I am glad your friend and his family are ok. Maybe this is a bit of a wake up call for the rest of us. My heart goes out to your friend and his family.
I am a very tech savvy person when it comes to technology and you are wrong about that. Laptops, cell phones, and cameras use a Lithium Ion battery for its long battery life abilities where as the RC world use Lithium Poly batteries for their extreme power output. Lithium Ions are very docile and are not anymore dangerous then a regular battery.
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:08 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Bengsch85 View Post
I am a very tech savvy person when it comes to technology and you are wrong about that. Laptops, cell phones, and cameras use a Lithium Ion battery for its long battery life abilities where as the RC world use Lithium Poly batteries for their extreme power output. Lithium Ions are very docile and are not anymore dangerous then a regular battery.
I beg to differ. Li-po and Li-ion are both made up of lithium which is what explodes or catches fire when something goes wrong. I have been in the rc hobby for 20 years and we used Li-Ion and Li-Po in Helis long before rc cars even knew about them. I have personally seen Li-Ion explode. The main difference between a Li-Ion and a Li-Po is the amount of current/AMPs that the battery will give up/the C rating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJCZ4ayioCU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNeeIzaeYDo
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=tC0U...eature=related
These are ALL Li-ion battery's.
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:15 AM   #21
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yet another reason I stick with my Nimh packs. They have done me well, and I see no need for Lipo batteries. I would worry everyday of having a Lipo battery in my shop all day/night while I work and sleep at night. Why? Well lets see....

New ATV - $6000
R/C stuff - about $1200
Lawn mower - $1200
shop/building itself - $1000
sentimental personal belongings - PRICELESS

all this stuff gets destroyed all for wanting a few extra run times - RETARDED!

I would rather have less run time, and have my mind clear of a battery exploding while im not around. Lipo sack? Ha, what a joke, I can't see a sack preventing a explosion
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:19 AM   #22
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ammo case - $20

Good Luck with a ban.
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:42 AM   #23
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Lipo has made this hobby so much better. It's not just about runtime or cycles, you just don't have to do anything besides ensure you don't leave the thing fully charged for days, balance charge, and use low voltage cut-off -- that's it for maintenance. Sure they can go off, but I have a scar from a nickle cell blowing up and have recently had nimh's vent at 225F due to peak being missed by the charger -- they're not terribly safe either. The one that got my arm wasn't being charged -- an exacto rolled up next to it and shorted it out, then in a few moments -- BANG!

I want to hear more details. These things just don't go off without reason. They sit on shelves in warehouses and hang on the wall or in the glass case at hobby stores in shrink wrap -- they're not being maintained there.

I've seen quite a few lipos shorted out, charged and used when puffed, sizzle and smoke, and not one huge fire from one. I know they happen -- but in my experience they're quite stable unless really abused. Constant overcharging without balancing is a good way to make a lipo bomb as well.

We need more information.
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Old 06-25-2010, 09:44 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Razathorn View Post
Lipo has made this hobby so much better. It's not just about runtime or cycles, you just don't have to do anything besides ensure you don't leave the thing fully charged for days, balance charge, and use low voltage cut-off -- that's it for maintenance. Sure they can go off, but I have a scar from a nickle cell blowing up and have recently had nimh's vent at 225F due to peak being missed by the charger -- they're not terribly safe either. The one that got my arm wasn't being charged -- an exacto rolled up next to it and shorted it out, then in a few moments -- BANG!

I want to hear more details. These things just don't go off without reason. They sit on shelves in warehouses and hang on the wall or in the glass case at hobby stores in shrink wrap -- they're not being maintained there.

I've seen quite a few lipos shorted out, charged and used when puffed, sizzle and smoke, and not one huge fire from one. I know they happen -- but in my experience they're quite stable unless really abused. Constant overcharging without balancing is a good way to make a lipo bomb as well.

We need more information.
Agreed! I purchased a lipo and it was out of balance and puffed on arrival. I didn't want the thing hanging around so I took it out back and shot it with a rifle to see what would happen. It was unimpressive to say the least. It was kind of like shooting a box of tissues.

Now as far as accountability goes when it comes to who actually made the lipo, things will get complicated. It's kind of like that magic trick where there is one ball under on of three red cups. The magician moves the cups around and tries to deceive you as to where the ball actually is. There is no doubt in my mind that you will chase these battery manufacturers around for years, years (ya, several years) trying to find out what entity actually made the battery. There will be several lawyers per entity saying they don't know who the other entity is when they are probably all related by blood. Again, this happens everyday when it comes to overseas manufacturing.

I am not saying I like this, hell no, this pisses me off. Being an American, I wish everything I bought was made here on this soil. That's not the way it is though so we deal with it and the problems that arise. We really have no control, that's why I am sitting here ranting on the internet and the corporations and politicians are sitting where they are. If you're friend is looking for some retribution, he better find a solidly established lawyer who thinks this wild goose chase is anywhere close to a good case. You both better put your helmets on and wait to see what comes out on the other side in 3+ years of corporation entity alchemy.
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:16 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Danny Teh View Post
Guys,

They are ok but in the state of shock especially his young daughter.

We all can be careful. No doubt.

But in the event, accident happen who is liable ?

Agenda

We all see they are sanction. By who ? By International organization of course. But where is our form of guarantee ??? If we charge and discharge by manufacturer instruction, are we in a form of guarantee in the event of accident ?

There's too many brands and REBRANDING in the market ? Can we sue them and those who sanction/allow LIPO to be use in RC Racing in the event of big accident ? if it is not abuse.

WE WANT THOSE AREAS COVERED !

------------------------------------------------------

Lipo is widely use ? YES...........but if any reputated electronics brands would have cause fire in our house or etc............man..........we will see you in court. That's some guarantee in the event loss of life/property.

----------------------------------------------------

I am not out for blood in this issue. But people who allow it to be use in RC Racing should bear in mind the consequences. Same with the BP oil thing. You cut corners, you will be liable.

Lipo battery ? If it is BAN, then problems would be minimise. Not quickly but gradually.

DT
I understand you had a tragic situation but you somewhat need to get off your high horse. No one cut any corners with your battery, 90% of the problems with Li-poly is from USER ERROR! Thinking you can sue a company or really change anything by your battery exploding is non-sense. It has happened to many people before and its part of the hobby... stuff happens. That big label on the back of just about all products now covers the manufacturers ass, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.

You should get the new Life batteries.. much safer. And by the way, I have used Lipoly batteries for over a year and a half with ZERO problems.
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Old 06-25-2010, 10:26 AM   #26
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I understand you had a tragic situation but you somewhat need to get off your high horse. No one cut any corners with your battery, 90% of the problems with Li-poly is from USER ERROR! Thinking you can sue a company or really change anything by your battery exploding is non-sense. It has happened to many people before and its part of the hobby... stuff happens. That big label on the back of just about all products now covers the manufacturers ass, USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
+1. Sorry to see things like this happening. Using the charging bag to transport is an absolute must.
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:35 PM   #27
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guys,

i think some of you are missing the point here, although i don't agree with a total ban but some form of regulatory (e.g: 13yo and above to purchase) is actually good. think about it, for every pack of lipo that is sold to RC enthusiasts like us there are probably 99 more packs sold to newbies, young kids, ignorant parents whom has no idea on how to maintain or use a lipo pack properly. almost every single mini heli sold in the toy shops in town has a lipo pack in it, the RTF kit is cheap and easy to fly and almost every kids in my neighborhood has one! think about the potential hazard these thing can create! kids might fly them during the day and store it in their bed room, overtime the pack might vent or burst if left to self discharge over a long period. as it is, the current warning label on the pack is IMHO inadequate at best, does any of you think those young kids that fly mini heli or RTR rc cars know what is the maximum charge rate and minimum voltage of a lipo pack? i really doubt so... to them it is just plug and play...

although some might said it is unfair to penalize the RC enthusiasts but if there are regulations on stricter warning labels and certain age to purchase, which may some how save just one house from burning i think it is well worth the cost...
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Old 06-25-2010, 08:13 PM   #28
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ammo case - $20

Good Luck with a ban.



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Old 06-25-2010, 08:51 PM   #29
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I think roar should ban the use of nitro fuels in their races too because they are flammable and can burn lots of people and set pit lane on fire and its also poisones.

but all kidding aside i know that lipos are dangerous and roar does a good
job of letting you know what they will and will not accept in the guidlines.
and those guidline tell us what must be done inorder to participate with our equipment, which also means it can be dangerous if mishandled and not following the guidlines.

sorry about your friend and his family having to go th ruogh this but im sure
he could have done something to avoid or if anything lessin the the extremity
of the situation.
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Old 06-25-2010, 08:53 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by jeff_ellis_9 View Post
yet another reason I stick with my Nimh packs. They have done me well, and I see no need for Lipo batteries. I would worry everyday of having a Lipo battery in my shop all day/night while I work and sleep at night. Why? Well lets see....

New ATV - $6000
R/C stuff - about $1200
Lawn mower - $1200
shop/building itself - $1000
sentimental personal belongings - PRICELESS

all this stuff gets destroyed all for wanting a few extra run times - RETARDED!

I would rather have less run time, and have my mind clear of a battery exploding while im not around. Lipo sack? Ha, what a joke, I can't see a sack preventing a explosion

Didn't you start a thread crying about your battery dying?
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