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Old 05-23-2010, 11:58 AM   #31
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a lot of good info there... and i am not arguing with you at all., i am just putting out there what i've done with the carb and what the Operation and Care Manual says about the spray bar.... i treated the same way i do my v-spec engine carb., there is also another local guy that runs with me and has an trinity extech2 engine with one of this carbs and he has also used the spray bar hex screw for some fine tunning on crazy weather days.. i am also talkin about very small changes to the spray bar..
I really appreciate all the good info, thanks. I tried to take out the standerd needle and install the turbo needle that went fine, but i noticed that the carb keeps sticking and does not move freely. I swaped it with the carb out of my evo 3 and changed that one over to a turbo needle as well. So I am going to see how that goes now in the morning. Any concerns or cautions there?
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:50 PM   #32
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Is it sticking on the bench, or is it already in the car with the servo installed? I ask because the slide valve tends to stick when it's dry. Once you run some fuel through it, the slide will usually loosen up. There were some issues with the slide valves on some of the engines, and occasionally we'd see one stick. As for the needle, there are usually two needles with each engine. There's a short one with a blunt tip and there's a longer one with more taper and a pointed tip. The standard one with the shorter profile has always worked better IMO than the long one. The long needle simply keeps the mixture leaner in the transition between idle and full speed. the shorter one delivers a little more fuel in the transition.
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:52 PM   #33
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BTW D8, how are you using the fixed spray bar to make adjustments instead of just using the low-speed needle?
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:13 PM   #34
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Is it sticking on the bench, or is it already in the car with the servo installed? I ask because the slide valve tends to stick when it's dry. Once you run some fuel through it, the slide will usually loosen up. There were some issues with the slide valves on some of the engines, and occasionally we'd see one stick. As for the needle, there are usually two needles with each engine. There's a short one with a blunt tip and there's a longer one with more taper and a pointed tip. The standard one with the shorter profile has always worked better IMO than the long one. The long needle simply keeps the mixture leaner in the transition between idle and full speed. the shorter one delivers a little more fuel in the transition.
it is sticking on the bench and it is also the long neck high end needle. so i am switching it with the carb i had in my evo 3 that one is the shorter high end needle. i put the turbo low end needle in it. do you have any good starting point suggestions on the high and low to get it kinda close? thanks for everything.
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:26 PM   #35
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hello,

i got my 1st Buggy engine SIRIO KANAI EVO 4. may i know standard head shim for this engine??
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:10 PM   #36
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rasteinberger - the settings you had last time will get you in the ballpark, but once it's started, you're definitely going to have to adjust it. There's so much that can affect the needle settings that there's no universal answer. Just the brand of fuel you use can change the main needle setting by a full turn, not to mention the glowplug, weather, head clearance, etc.

Pau - The standard settings vary, so there's no easy answer for that one, but if you're going to measure and set it more precisely, set it at 0.6mm.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:35 AM   #37
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rasteinberger - the settings you had last time will get you in the ballpark, but once it's started, you're definitely going to have to adjust it. There's so much that can affect the needle settings that there's no universal answer. Just the brand of fuel you use can change the main needle setting by a full turn, not to mention the glowplug, weather, head clearance, etc.

Pau - The standard settings vary, so there's no easy answer for that one, but if you're going to measure and set it more precisely, set it at 0.6mm.
ok tq for the info. in malaysia, sirio not the famous engine but i like sirio coz that engine got a lot of mid to end power. on 1/10 on-road, i using sirio xxx. very smooth engine.
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Old 05-24-2010, 05:47 AM   #38
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Yes, they're very good engines - among the best. They have had minor consistency issues with the carburetors, but I spend a little time making sure the carbs are well sealed and functioning properly, and the engines run like a Swiss watch with tons of usable power. In fact I haven't seen a brand yet, with the possible exception of OS, that produces great carbs consistently, but fortunately it's not too difficult to remedy.
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:46 AM   #39
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rasteinberger - the settings you had last time will get you in the ballpark, but once it's started, you're definitely going to have to adjust it. There's so much that can affect the needle settings that there's no universal answer. Just the brand of fuel you use can change the main needle setting by a full turn, not to mention the glowplug, weather, head clearance, etc.

Pau - The standard settings vary, so there's no easy answer for that one, but if you're going to measure and set it more precisely, set it at 0.6mm.
Ok Steve, I put the carb off the Evo 3 down in it. It is the one with the short high end needle. It barely wanted to run, it kept gergling with fuel. I leaned out the low end about one complete turn, and the high needle about 3 hours. that is putting the high end needle about 5 and a half turns out, and the low end needle about 2 and on quarter turns out. To me i think that i might want to start more like 3 and a half on the low and 6 on the high. it was running real sluggish and getting hot. To far out i think to really start. I think one of my kids messed with the settings over the past few years lol. I just noticed how far out i am and I dont think that it is good any suggestions? or should i try to drive it out as i adjust instead? Thanks again Steve for the help. It is definetly running better with this carb though as apposed to the old one. Oh one other thing what changes to the engine will i see between the turbo low end needle and the regular? I am running the turbo head, but normally run the regular needle. I see that the turbo is longer.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:28 PM   #40
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If you're at the point where you can get the engine to stay running, you're 80-percent of the way there. The next step is to just fine-tune the needles. It's a lot easier said than done, but there are a few simple steps that will make it easier. Set the low-speed needle first. A lot of people will tell you to start with the main needle, but it doesn't mean much if you can't get it to idle properly.

Get the engine started and warm it up. The biggest mistake most people make is to tune the engine before it's up to temperature. As the engine gets hotter, then fuel mixture leans out and if you tuned it to run well while it's cold, it's not going to be good once it's up to temp.

clean out the engine with a couple quick blasts of throttle. Let the engine settle down to idle speed, then pinch the fuel line. It doesn't matter where you pinch it, just do so in an area where your fingers aren't at risk of getting caught in the gears or burned by the exhaust. The engine should rev up slightly, and then the RPM will drop and the engine will stall. I release the fuel line before then to avoid having to restart the engine all the time. The engine should run for 5 to 8 seconds after you pinch the fuel line. If it wants to stall in 5 seconds or less, then the low speed mixture is probably too lean. If it wants to run longer than about 8 seconds, then the low-speed mixture is too rich. Get this set to the point where the engine idles down smoothly and consistently, and the RPM doesn't increase dramatically. If it does, that means the idle speed is too high and the fuel mixture is too rich. Again, there should just be a minor increase in engine speed.

Then turn your attention toward the main needle. Open it up until the engine is noticeably rich, then run it around the track or parking lot for a few laps (at least a minute) and then recheck it. If the engine is still acceleration poorly, then lean it out a little more and run it around again. Keep making small adjustments to lean the mixture and don't stop until you feel that the engine isn't getting any faster. It should accelerate hard all the way from a dead stop to full speed. Once you stop gaining in these areas, you're right around the proper setting. Turn the needle back the other direction just a little bit, and you should be good to go. You'll need to retune the main needle each time you run the vehicle because the weather is always changing, but this should get you close to an ideal needle setting. As a last precaution, re-check the low-speed needle setting again. Adjustments to the main needle will affect the low-speed setting, so it's good to check it one last time before heading out for some bashing.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:15 AM   #41
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If you're at the point where you can get the engine to stay running, you're 80-percent of the way there. The next step is to just fine-tune the needles. It's a lot easier said than done, but there are a few simple steps that will make it easier. Set the low-speed needle first. A lot of people will tell you to start with the main needle, but it doesn't mean much if you can't get it to idle properly.

Get the engine started and warm it up. The biggest mistake most people make is to tune the engine before it's up to temperature. As the engine gets hotter, then fuel mixture leans out and if you tuned it to run well while it's cold, it's not going to be good once it's up to temp.

clean out the engine with a couple quick blasts of throttle. Let the engine settle down to idle speed, then pinch the fuel line. It doesn't matter where you pinch it, just do so in an area where your fingers aren't at risk of getting caught in the gears or burned by the exhaust. The engine should rev up slightly, and then the RPM will drop and the engine will stall. I release the fuel line before then to avoid having to restart the engine all the time. The engine should run for 5 to 8 seconds after you pinch the fuel line. If it wants to stall in 5 seconds or less, then the low speed mixture is probably too lean. If it wants to run longer than about 8 seconds, then the low-speed mixture is too rich. Get this set to the point where the engine idles down smoothly and consistently, and the RPM doesn't increase dramatically. If it does, that means the idle speed is too high and the fuel mixture is too rich. Again, there should just be a minor increase in engine speed.

Then turn your attention toward the main needle. Open it up until the engine is noticeably rich, then run it around the track or parking lot for a few laps (at least a minute) and then recheck it. If the engine is still acceleration poorly, then lean it out a little more and run it around again. Keep making small adjustments to lean the mixture and don't stop until you feel that the engine isn't getting any faster. It should accelerate hard all the way from a dead stop to full speed. Once you stop gaining in these areas, you're right around the proper setting. Turn the needle back the other direction just a little bit, and you should be good to go. You'll need to retune the main needle each time you run the vehicle because the weather is always changing, but this should get you close to an ideal needle setting. As a last precaution, re-check the low-speed needle setting again. Adjustments to the main needle will affect the low-speed setting, so it's good to check it one last time before heading out for some bashing.
Steve,

Thanks loads man, she is running pretty strong. I am holding between 200-220 degrees it is making solid power and giving a strong blast. When i pinch the line it shuts down in 5-6 seconds. After a blast the idle stays a little higher for about 3 seconds then comes down. Does all that sound good to you? I was also wanting to pick your brain to gain some more knowledge if ok. I was wondering what the difference to the engine is between the standerd needle and the turbo needle. I was also wanting to know the glow plug you recomend, the brand and the heat. I am running 30% nitrotane. I am currently on my last kyosho #7 glow plug and wanting to go with a more common one. I was wanting to know what brand and number you would try, I was thinking a solid medium temp plug, but clearly you would know better than me what to do lol. Any suggestion for the glow plug, and the difference between the 2 needles would be great, Thanks for everything man really appreciate it.
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:07 PM   #42
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I would open up the low-speed needle just an 1/8 of a turn and open up the high-speed needle a little more as well. When you let off the throttle and the idle hangs at high rpm for a few seconds, it means that the main needle setting is a little too lean.

I didn't do much testing between different needles in the main needle assembly. They only really serve one purpose, and once you're done adjusting it, it stays put until you make your next adjustment. So, perhaps one flows better than the other, but don't spend too much time worrying about it. The low speed needle is more dynamic because it sets the idle mixture, but as the slide valve opens, it also regulates the fuel mixture briefly as the carb opens. Needles that are longer with a long tapered section tend to make the transition between idle and high speed a little more lean, and conversely, short needles with a blunt tip make the transition a little more rich. I've tended to prefer the latter, but it's a matter of preference. Once you get most of the tuning fundamentals down, then experiment with the different needles and make up your own mind. I've never seen the needles referred to as "standard" and "turbo," but perhaps it's because I haven't opened an engine manual in 15 years. ;o)

I also haven't heard of a Kyosho #7 plug. Regardless, if you're running a turbo plug and it's a #7, it's a little on the cold side. the Sirio #6 plug seems to work well in these engines. We've run the #5 and found it to be a little too delicate in some conditions, the #6 is on the money, and the #7 is too cold for my preferences. If you can't get a Sirio/Orion glowplug, then maybe you can go to an RB or Novarossi plug in the same heat range. Get one with a chrome/natural housing as it tends to run a little hotter than the plugs with the black oxide treatment.

Make those adjustments to your engine and let me know how it works out.
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:46 PM   #43
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This is good infosteve I always wondered what the diff between the two needles.It seem to make it lean on the low end, the longer needle
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Old 05-25-2010, 05:07 PM   #44
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Too bad these engines are not around anymore!
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Old 05-25-2010, 05:42 PM   #45
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I saw them on the Epic/Trinity website the other day. These versions are not available anymore, but hopefully the new ones are even better.
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