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Old 03-24-2010, 05:30 PM   #196
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Actually reading the info on ROAR site - they only run one 1 official race in the 1/8 and that's Nationals. According to my sources even the regionals have leeway in what can be ran and what cant. So we are only looking at one race. Now with that everyone have a stock body, those will HAVE to be on their list. And most of us buy an additional body anyway so just run your stocker for Nats. And hopefully the track owners around the country are not boners and will allow other bodies cause we all know that no body on the market now or in the near future will be classified as FASTER.

But let all the BIG pros show up to nats with that bulldog body, I will put money on it that ROAR will let them run it. And by the way, working at a Professional Race track that house big time NASCAR races, I will say that NASCAR DO LISTEN TO RACERS AND WHAT THEY WANT, AND BALANCES WHAT THE RACERS WANT AND SAFETY BEFORE RULING. AND THEY DONT DO THIS AT THE START OF THE SEASON, UNLESS IT IS A TRUE SAFETY CONCERN. In NASCAR, manufacturers, drivers, team owners do have a say in most decisions before NASCAR makes it final and thats the same from racing to sports.

Do ROAR charge manufacturers for their stamp?
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Old 03-24-2010, 05:54 PM   #197
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FYI - "Reshape to fit around the Buggy Chassis" has nothing to do with coveriing the wheels.
So you're basically talking about a completely new body which has nothing to do with a 1/8 scale onroad body. Because all onroad bodies I have seen cover the wheels. If you basically just shrink that down to only cover the chassis area, it is not a 1/8 scale onroad body. Again, I don't really see what you are getting at here. Basically a high downforce buggy body? If so, I'm game.
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Old 03-24-2010, 06:03 PM   #198
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You are wrong grass hopper.. Rules for Bodies of all classes have been in place since the class was recognized by our Sanctioning body.

And you have no idea what your talking about with the VTR as well.
Yes, but not rules that would disallow the bulldog bodies until now correct?

And maybe you should explain it to me instead of just saying "you're wrong". Wouldn't that be the appropriate action for the ROAR technical director? To explain the rules?
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Old 03-24-2010, 06:11 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Shuming View Post
Actually reading the info on ROAR site - they only run one 1 official race in the 1/8 and that's Nationals. According to my sources even the regionals have leeway in what can be ran and what cant. So we are only looking at one race. Now with that everyone have a stock body, those will HAVE to be on their list. And most of us buy an additional body anyway so just run your stocker for Nats. And hopefully the track owners around the country are not boners and will allow other bodies cause we all know that no body on the market now or in the near future will be classified as FASTER.

But let all the BIG pros show up to nats with that bulldog body, I will put money on it that ROAR will let them run it. And by the way, working at a Professional Race track that house big time NASCAR races, I will say that NASCAR DO LISTEN TO RACERS AND WHAT THEY WANT, AND BALANCES WHAT THE RACERS WANT AND SAFETY BEFORE RULING. AND THEY DONT DO THIS AT THE START OF THE SEASON, UNLESS IT IS A TRUE SAFETY CONCERN. In NASCAR, manufacturers, drivers, team owners do have a say in most decisions before NASCAR makes it final and thats the same from racing to sports.

Do ROAR charge manufacturers for their stamp?
How much money are you willing to put on that?
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Old 03-24-2010, 06:19 PM   #200
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The only thing on the bulldog that irks me is the flat "bed" behind the cab. Mostly because it would be a heck of a lot more noticeable on my rc8Be with no cooling tower sticking out. Just make proline sweep the back of the cab back to maintain the buggy look and call it a day.
NO!!!! That is what roar wants the companies to do.....bow down to them. The sad thing is that someone at roar got a bug up their a** about the PL body cause they though it was radical/ugly/cool... when the LOSI body (out for at least a year) has had the cab forward design already crowned as a National champ. In the "spirit of rule" (hahahhaha), the PL body should be allowed.
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Old 03-24-2010, 06:21 PM   #201
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Not sure what they're going to charge for body approval, but ROAR battery approval costs $250, plus the battery that is being submitted.
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Old 03-24-2010, 06:29 PM   #202
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So the only logic behind this rule is that the new bodies are more radically designed and take away from the realism of the vehicle? Someone please clarify.

Again, if nothing else is remotely realistic looking or performance wise about these cars, why is ROAR hung up all of a sudden on the cab forward designs? Why does it matter where the cab sits (or if we even have a cab on the body for that matter) on the car if the wheels, speed, tracks, and everything else about 1/8 off road completely unrealistic?

It is true that most of us will never race at a ROAR event or very few and club tracks have better things to do than worry about body designs. However, I think most are just upset that ROAR is even attempting to regulate something like this. It is the principal of the matter more than anything.
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:24 PM   #203
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It is true that most of us will never race at a ROAR event or very few and club tracks have better things to do than worry about body designs. However, I think most are just upset that ROAR is even attempting to regulate something like this. It is the principal of the matter more than anything.
I think ROAR was trying to get something in place before everything got out of hand and you did wind up with something that did not even resemble a body. Not sure how much input the manufacturers had in this rule, but they did have their chance. My take on the whole thing, If you are not planning to run at the Nats, don't worry about it.

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Old 03-24-2010, 07:35 PM   #204
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Come on guys. Which one does it resemble most?





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Old 03-24-2010, 07:41 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by JAMMINKRAZY View Post
Yes, but not rules that would disallow the bulldog bodies until now correct?

And maybe you should explain it to me instead of just saying "you're wrong". Wouldn't that be the appropriate action for the ROAR technical director? To explain the rules?
h

The Rule for Non-Truck Like Bodies has been in the 1:8 Buggy Rules since the class began. No rule was quickly written to respond to a body by anyone.

Is that explained clear enough for you?

Have you even looked at a ROAR Rule Book in your life? They are online if you didnt receive a copy with your membership.

So when you say ROAR did something due to Proline Releasing something someone didnt like, your just wrong.

This has nothing to do with Cab Forward, Middle, or Rear. It doesnt comply with a Non Truck Like Body.

When you claim its not the first time ROAR has done something to like this, and bring up the VTR truggy tire/wheel, again your wrong. For a while, Monster Truck/Truggy Wheel Tires were the flavor and new size of the week. ROAR and the mfg got together to stop the madness, trying to help save racers the ever spending $100 a set each week. All were consulted, input received, spec defined for wheel tire.

Then the VTR released being a larger wheel.
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:04 PM   #206
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The body rules have always been there, just overlooked for years until recent bodies have just been made in the past 1-2 years. You can't expect to be able to produce and use a product that doesn't meet the current rules. You can possibly use that 'illegal' product at many other travel races or club races depending on the track official's decision on which rules they choose to enforce. The racers and manufacturers can and do have a hand in forming the rules, but more times than not products are just deemed illegal and not 'adopted' into legality. The racers need ROAR as much as ROAR needs the racers. If there was no ROAR or rules to follow. Imagine the complaining that would be going on when someone lost to a 1/8 buggy in the same heat as their stock buggy. No rules means no rules to designate what a 'class' is. Or if someone used 4 batteries for more power, or manufacturers started using more exotic and expensive materials or manufacturing techniques, or fuel injection. Everything would be more expensive with little organization on the racing front.

I think the body thing by ROAR is good and a step forward in right direction. Little changes to those sheets of lexan do make quite a difference on the track. If not governed, the bodies could end up looking something like F1 cars 2-3 years ago when they had all those little winglets on them. Looked cool but imagine how much fun and time consuming it'd be to test all that, how easily the body would break, and small changes between body brands would require you to stock bodies to take to the track. I think the next thing would be for ROAR to make a 'conformity box' (F1 and other forms of racing the governing body gives the manufacturers information on what space they are allowed to work within for different components of the chassis body) of sorts giving guidelines of where and what you can do with the body to take away any 'gray area' in the rules. The PL body looks like a truck body and a buggy body, but to me it falls in the gray area of the rules. Some may say it passes as a buggy body, some say it's truggy body. Making a 'conformity box' takes the judgment away and more or less creates a gauge to measure the body with much like a width or wheelbase gauge. Either you pass or don't pass.
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:13 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by Jesse Robbers View Post
The body rules have always been there, just overlooked for years until recent bodies have just been made in the past 1-2 years. You can't expect to be able to produce and use a product that doesn't meet the current rules. You can possibly use that 'illegal' product at many other travel races or club races depending on the track official's decision on which rules they choose to enforce. The racers and manufacturers can and do have a hand in forming the rules, but more times than not products are just deemed illegal and not 'adopted' into legality. The racers need ROAR as much as ROAR needs the racers. If there was no ROAR or rules to follow. Imagine the complaining that would be going on when someone lost to a 1/8 buggy in the same heat as their stock buggy. No rules means no rules to designate what a 'class' is. Or if someone used 4 batteries for more power, or manufacturers started using more exotic and expensive materials or manufacturing techniques, or fuel injection. Everything would be more expensive with little organization on the racing front.

I think the body thing by ROAR is good and a step forward in right direction. Little changes to those sheets of lexan do make quite a difference on the track. If not governed, the bodies could end up looking something like F1 cars 2-3 years ago when they had all those little winglets on them. Looked cool but imagine how much fun and time consuming it'd be to test all that, how easily the body would break, and small changes between body brands would require you to stock bodies to take to the track. I think the next thing would be for ROAR to make a 'conformity box' (F1 and other forms of racing the governing body gives the manufacturers information on what space they are allowed to work within for different components of the chassis body) of sorts giving guidelines of where and what you can do with the body to take away any 'gray area' in the rules. The PL body looks like a truck body and a buggy body, but to me it falls in the gray area of the rules. Some may say it passes as a buggy body, some say it's truggy body. Making a 'conformity box' takes the judgment away and more or less creates a gauge to measure the body with much like a width or wheelbase gauge. Either you pass or don't pass.
Probably the best post of the bunch.
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:33 AM   #208
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Old 03-25-2010, 04:56 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Jesse Robbers View Post
The body rules have always been there, just overlooked for years until recent bodies have just been made in the past 1-2 years. You can't expect to be able to produce and use a product that doesn't meet the current rules. You can possibly use that 'illegal' product at many other travel races or club races depending on the track official's decision on which rules they choose to enforce. The racers and manufacturers can and do have a hand in forming the rules, but more times than not products are just deemed illegal and not 'adopted' into legality. The racers need ROAR as much as ROAR needs the racers. If there was no ROAR or rules to follow. Imagine the complaining that would be going on when someone lost to a 1/8 buggy in the same heat as their stock buggy. No rules means no rules to designate what a 'class' is. Or if someone used 4 batteries for more power, or manufacturers started using more exotic and expensive materials or manufacturing techniques, or fuel injection. Everything would be more expensive with little organization on the racing front.

I think the body thing by ROAR is good and a step forward in right direction. Little changes to those sheets of lexan do make quite a difference on the track. If not governed, the bodies could end up looking something like F1 cars 2-3 years ago when they had all those little winglets on them. Looked cool but imagine how much fun and time consuming it'd be to test all that, how easily the body would break, and small changes between body brands would require you to stock bodies to take to the track. I think the next thing would be for ROAR to make a 'conformity box' (F1 and other forms of racing the governing body gives the manufacturers information on what space they are allowed to work within for different components of the chassis body) of sorts giving guidelines of where and what you can do with the body to take away any 'gray area' in the rules. The PL body looks like a truck body and a buggy body, but to me it falls in the gray area of the rules. Some may say it passes as a buggy body, some say it's truggy body. Making a 'conformity box' takes the judgment away and more or less creates a gauge to measure the body with much like a width or wheelbase gauge. Either you pass or don't pass.
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Originally Posted by madweazl View Post
Probably the best post of the bunch.

Agreed....as always, Jesse is the consumate professional.

I'm always in favor of technological advancement, but there needs to be some guidelines to work within, or everyone would go off in different directions. I would be completely in favor of the "conformity box" approach. This would give the manufacturers the freedom to explore creative or technical innovations, while also providing a reasonably level playing field for the end users. This may not be where the rules are now, but there's nothing that keeps ROAR from revising them to use that approach in the future, should it be deemed more appropriate.

JDCrow, is there a pre-determined schedule for reviewing rules, and proposing / implementing revisions (yearly, quarterly, etc...), or is this something that is done on the fly as needed?

Like others have said, the rules are there, they just haven't necessarily been strictly enforced until now. If you don't agree with them, don't race at ROAR sanctioned events. I like the older style bodies, the new cab-forward bodies, and a great many of the stock bodies, so it's really no skin off my back either way.

I may not agree fully with the timing, or how the enforcement of this rule was communicated, but I'm not a ROAR member (yet), so I wouldn't have seen it in member communications. Regardless, I still haven't seen anything that would prevent me from becoming a ROAR member.
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Old 03-25-2010, 05:47 AM   #210
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You guys are getting WAY too worked up over this. If you like the ugly a** things, buy one, paint it, and run it. Just don't try to do it at a ROAR sanctioned event unless you're willing to take a gamble on being DQ'd for technical reasons.

For my part, unless somebody proves to me they'll lower MY lap times consistently I'm not interested.
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