engine break in and tuning paradox
03-13-2010, 04:25 PM
#1
engine break in and tuning paradox
I have a new ninja (well new rod, crank, bearings, p/s). And am doing my break in. Last one i did i used the heat cycle method and i think i rushed it. I now am putting a quart through before i lean it out to much and i am having the same problem i have always had.
Keeping the temps up without leaning it out during break in. I have put aluminum tape, cotton barrier, more and more aluminum tape, heat it up to 180 run it for 2-3 minutes and it comes in at about 105 degrees. I do NOT wont to lean it out more just to get the temps up.
Should i get a battery powered heat gun and follow it around (that would be funny, and don't think for a sec that i won't try it
)
the last one i had i went by the turorial that is sticked at the top. Well i got about half the life out of that one vs the vspec i had before (broke it in per the manual)
I think this is something that i will always bitch about and annoy people with. I know not to tune to temp but 105?? really?? Should i just cycle for 1 minute until the heat from the gun where's off?
It doesn't matter, i am finished with my first quart and will start leaning it out tomorrow with my next quart. Temps should come up.
SOrry for my rant.
Like i said, it's a paradox. It seems impossible to me to keep your engine rich enough for break in and have the temps at the same time.
I also think it's funny that people say to tune the high speed needle first when the low speed loads up the case and it won't come up quick enough. You need like 300 foot strip.
How many of you tune low and high at the same time?
Keeping the temps up without leaning it out during break in. I have put aluminum tape, cotton barrier, more and more aluminum tape, heat it up to 180 run it for 2-3 minutes and it comes in at about 105 degrees. I do NOT wont to lean it out more just to get the temps up.
Should i get a battery powered heat gun and follow it around (that would be funny, and don't think for a sec that i won't try it
)the last one i had i went by the turorial that is sticked at the top. Well i got about half the life out of that one vs the vspec i had before (broke it in per the manual)
I think this is something that i will always bitch about and annoy people with. I know not to tune to temp but 105?? really?? Should i just cycle for 1 minute until the heat from the gun where's off?
It doesn't matter, i am finished with my first quart and will start leaning it out tomorrow with my next quart. Temps should come up.
SOrry for my rant.
Like i said, it's a paradox. It seems impossible to me to keep your engine rich enough for break in and have the temps at the same time.
I also think it's funny that people say to tune the high speed needle first when the low speed loads up the case and it won't come up quick enough. You need like 300 foot strip.
How many of you tune low and high at the same time?
03-13-2010, 04:32 PM
#2
Tech Adept
iTrader: (28)
I really have no advice to give you but thought I would comment. How in the world could that motor run and only produce temps of 105?
Does it run by itself, without any asistance from a glow ignitor? Is it severely cold where you are at?
Like I said I really dont have any advice, as I am perplexed at this motor even running and only producing temps of 105.
Goodluck
Does it run by itself, without any asistance from a glow ignitor? Is it severely cold where you are at?
Like I said I really dont have any advice, as I am perplexed at this motor even running and only producing temps of 105.
Goodluck
03-13-2010, 04:39 PM
#3
your perplexed? that makes at least 2 of us
I am going to just lean it out more. But i am about a quater turn richer then my normal race tune.
No my temp gun is not broken. Besides the top of the head to me is not a good indication imo of the temp inside the combustion chamber.
***going to check plug***
Took the glo plug off and it was really rich. I don't really understand how at my settings it was so rich. But the O.S. manual says to run it like this.
I ran a little over half a quart like this and still has most of it's pinch. How bad did i screw this motor up
I am going to just lean it out more. But i am about a quater turn richer then my normal race tune.
No my temp gun is not broken. Besides the top of the head to me is not a good indication imo of the temp inside the combustion chamber.
***going to check plug***
Took the glo plug off and it was really rich. I don't really understand how at my settings it was so rich. But the O.S. manual says to run it like this.
I ran a little over half a quart like this and still has most of it's pinch. How bad did i screw this motor up
03-13-2010, 05:05 PM
#5
I try to break my engines-in in warm weather. I run three tanks on the starter
box at a rich idle keeping the temps about 220 degrees using an electric engine warmer. I run about twelve tanks with an engine cozy preheating the engine
to about 210 before every start. My engines temps around 187 degrees.
box at a rich idle keeping the temps about 220 degrees using an electric engine warmer. I run about twelve tanks with an engine cozy preheating the engine
to about 210 before every start. My engines temps around 187 degrees.
03-13-2010, 05:17 PM
#6
105??? I can get there with just the friction from the starter box...something is terribly amiss here...and I'd imagine it's something simple...at 105 you should have nothing but liquid mixed with a cloud of smoke out of the pipe...not good...use your better judgment, yeah...it'll need leaned.
Just looking and listening should tell you a lot about what's going on.
I'm having no problem breaking in motors in Ohio this week...with temperatures in the 50's. Holding heat just fine, with a baby sock on the head.
I heat cycle as well. Get good life outta' my mills...get help.
Just looking and listening should tell you a lot about what's going on.
I'm having no problem breaking in motors in Ohio this week...with temperatures in the 50's. Holding heat just fine, with a baby sock on the head.
I heat cycle as well. Get good life outta' my mills...get help.
03-13-2010, 05:39 PM
#7
well my engine was preheated to almost 200, and most of the pinch is still there.
The settings i started out with on my ninja was 2.5 out on the hsn and the low speed flush with the body. I leaned it 1/8th on the hsn and about 1/4 on the lsn.
What are the break in setting some of you use?
Now i went to take the cooling head off, and it was not near what i tightened it too.
Made me wonder if my screws were to long and making my head too loose. I took the same screws out and put them in my engine block. When it bottomed out the was quite a bit of screw left. I might have got my screws mixed up somehow. Don't know but could be a problem i guess.
The settings i started out with on my ninja was 2.5 out on the hsn and the low speed flush with the body. I leaned it 1/8th on the hsn and about 1/4 on the lsn.
What are the break in setting some of you use?
Now i went to take the cooling head off, and it was not near what i tightened it too.
Made me wonder if my screws were to long and making my head too loose. I took the same screws out and put them in my engine block. When it bottomed out the was quite a bit of screw left. I might have got my screws mixed up somehow. Don't know but could be a problem i guess.
03-13-2010, 06:17 PM
#8
just read the online o.s. manual and what it said for break in is not what i thought.
I am pretty sure my P/s is not going to be good yet again. I am pissed. This is my 5th break in and i still cannot do it right.
I am done. Can't do this anymore. Going to electric.
I am pretty sure my P/s is not going to be good yet again. I am pissed. This is my 5th break in and i still cannot do it right.
I am done. Can't do this anymore. Going to electric.
03-13-2010, 06:25 PM
#9
this is what it says, and i definitley did not do it like this. I ran over half a quart retarded rich. Cannot tell you how mad i am. I mean i am not stupid. Went to college, i understand quantum mechanics and partical physics. Why the hell can't i get this right? Why is there so much bad information when it comes to breaking in a stupid model car engine? AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
ENGINE BREAKIN PER O.S.
How Do I Break In My R/C Car Engine?
The break in process of model engines, especially R/C car engines has been affected by a wide variety of myths and misconceptions. The main one is that the engine must be run at idle for several tanks' worth of fuel before the model is run. There is nothing farther from the truth! In fact, running the engine at idle for several tanks' worth of fuel will not only insure that your engine won't break in properly, but it could also reduce its overall life!
The purpose of the break-in process is to run the engine so that its moving parts will polish each other to a perfect fit. This requires that the engine be run at a variety of throttle settings so that the different parts will be affected by changing pressures and temperatures.
Typically, we start out with a moderately rich needle setting and start driving the car right away. We accelerate to a medium speed and then coast. Turn around and come back the same way. If the high-speed needle is so rich that the engine tends to hesitate a lot when throttle is applied, we'll lean it a bit to eliminate most of the hesitation.
After a few minutes of this, we start accelerating to a high speed and then coast. Turn around and come back the same way. We do this for the remainder of the first tank.
During the next two to three tanks' worth of running, we gradually lean the high-speed needle valve until the engine will run at full throttle at a setting just rich of peak RPM. One way to tell that the engine is on the rich side of peak RPM is to accelerate to full throttle and carefully listen to the engine. It should accelerate up and hold RPM, and not sag back down.
With the CV-series of engines, we'll set the high-speed needle about 2-1/4 turns open and lean from there. When fully leaned, the needle will be between 1-3/4 to 2 turns out from closed. The engine may still run with a leaner setting on the needle, but that setting may be lean enough to allow the engine to gradually overheat and quit. An overheat is a bad thing, and it will cause the piston/cylinder fit to go bad very quickly. "Thermal overload" is just another term for overheating.
If the engine is set too lean, the engine's internal parts can be damaged because they'll be starved of lubrication. Remember, the engine's lubrication is contained in the fuel, and a too-lean setting means too little fuel, which translates into too little lubrication.
Finally, O.S. states in their engine instructions that you should use a fuel that has an oil content of no less than 18% by volume. Many so-called "R/C Car" fuels contain oil in the 12%-14% range. While these may work quite well when the engine's set correctly, low-oil fuels do not leave much margin of error if the engine gets a lean run. Nitro content can be as high as 20% by volume without worry about special engine tuning or setup.
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ENGINE BREAKIN PER O.S.
How Do I Break In My R/C Car Engine?
The break in process of model engines, especially R/C car engines has been affected by a wide variety of myths and misconceptions. The main one is that the engine must be run at idle for several tanks' worth of fuel before the model is run. There is nothing farther from the truth! In fact, running the engine at idle for several tanks' worth of fuel will not only insure that your engine won't break in properly, but it could also reduce its overall life!
The purpose of the break-in process is to run the engine so that its moving parts will polish each other to a perfect fit. This requires that the engine be run at a variety of throttle settings so that the different parts will be affected by changing pressures and temperatures.
Typically, we start out with a moderately rich needle setting and start driving the car right away. We accelerate to a medium speed and then coast. Turn around and come back the same way. If the high-speed needle is so rich that the engine tends to hesitate a lot when throttle is applied, we'll lean it a bit to eliminate most of the hesitation.
After a few minutes of this, we start accelerating to a high speed and then coast. Turn around and come back the same way. We do this for the remainder of the first tank.
During the next two to three tanks' worth of running, we gradually lean the high-speed needle valve until the engine will run at full throttle at a setting just rich of peak RPM. One way to tell that the engine is on the rich side of peak RPM is to accelerate to full throttle and carefully listen to the engine. It should accelerate up and hold RPM, and not sag back down.
With the CV-series of engines, we'll set the high-speed needle about 2-1/4 turns open and lean from there. When fully leaned, the needle will be between 1-3/4 to 2 turns out from closed. The engine may still run with a leaner setting on the needle, but that setting may be lean enough to allow the engine to gradually overheat and quit. An overheat is a bad thing, and it will cause the piston/cylinder fit to go bad very quickly. "Thermal overload" is just another term for overheating.
If the engine is set too lean, the engine's internal parts can be damaged because they'll be starved of lubrication. Remember, the engine's lubrication is contained in the fuel, and a too-lean setting means too little fuel, which translates into too little lubrication.
Finally, O.S. states in their engine instructions that you should use a fuel that has an oil content of no less than 18% by volume. Many so-called "R/C Car" fuels contain oil in the 12%-14% range. While these may work quite well when the engine's set correctly, low-oil fuels do not leave much margin of error if the engine gets a lean run. Nitro content can be as high as 20% by volume without worry about special engine tuning or setup.
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03-13-2010, 06:32 PM
#10
We could handle this for ya at the Speed Shop and put it on a bench in a controlled enviroment ant have it at operating temps yet still letting it run rich. It's a very safe and effective break in. The more you run it like that the worse things will be.
My email is [email protected] if I can help you in any way.
My email is [email protected] if I can help you in any way.
03-13-2010, 06:51 PM
#12
I did about six tanks overly rich. about half a quart. still has alot of pinch. I will just have to lean it out a quater turn on the hsn and go from there.
And i thought the settings i had it on was too lean already.
And i thought the settings i had it on was too lean already.
03-13-2010, 07:31 PM
#14
If you have a 1/10th scale tire foam laying around....it works pretty well to hold the heat in. I did break in on my new engine in @ 40-50 degree weather with a tire foam...and running rich it hit 180-190 in @ 8 min or so of just idling. Without the foam it wouldn't even break 130.
Aluminum Foil, A tube sock.....find something you have on hand to wrap the head and keep the heat inside.
Aluminum Foil, A tube sock.....find something you have on hand to wrap the head and keep the heat inside.
03-13-2010, 07:39 PM
#15
i did motto. Aluminum tape. lots of it. I am taking the cooling head off completly and screwing the head button straight to the engine case. then i can put the tape straight on the block and head button.
Just an idea i had. Do my needle settings sound far off? they don't to me. I will lean it out to within about a hour or two to my final setting.
which i am a hour away from right now.
do you guys just lean your hsn first? or both? should i not even touch the lsn now? what kind of tunning steps do you take?
Just an idea i had. Do my needle settings sound far off? they don't to me. I will lean it out to within about a hour or two to my final setting.
which i am a hour away from right now.
do you guys just lean your hsn first? or both? should i not even touch the lsn now? what kind of tunning steps do you take?