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Old 02-27-2010, 09:20 PM   #46
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Background:

I haven't done a whole lot of racing. I go to the track and play once in a while. I have an engineering degree and hold performance and quality about equal when purchasing any products... be it hunting stuff, hiking stuff, rc stuff or any other stuff.

Kits owned:

Ofna Jammin X1 Pro new, Ofna Jammin X1 Pro used, Losi 8T 2.0 new, Mugen MBX6T new

Thoughts:

I don't have enough experience in RC to push any of these kits to their potential. So performance wise I can't really give any results at this point. Sorry.

Quality and Fit, thoughts...

I've taken the Losi 2.0 apart and put it back together. I've assembled the Ofna and Mugen kits. So far I've found that Mugen has the best quality and fit. The Jammin and Losi seem about the same, the Ofna slightly better then Losi.
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Old 03-03-2010, 10:19 AM   #47
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Driver is the key variable here. Drake and some of the other top level pro's could win with a TCWW (trash can with wheels), provided it was setup correctly.
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Old 03-03-2010, 11:02 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by gameholic2 View Post
your criteria for determining which is better is totaly wrong...
stats testing and trophies??
are you serious?? If these are the criterias that are important to you sell all your Losi stuff and get a Kyosho.
Your average rc racer will obviously look at outright performance but smart drivers really want a car that's durable and doesn't require constant maintenance, If you ever had anything other than a Losi you probably wouldn't have started this thread.
With more realistic criterias such as parts quality durability and ease of Maintenance, Mugen and Xray win hands down the fact that some actualy prefer how they drive is just a bonus.
I had an MBX5 then I went with the losi 1.0 then 2.0 and finaly switched back to the MBX6 and i cant honestly say both brands are good but after a couple of races with the Losi cars the suspension arms were warped upwards With the MBX6 The plastics are much stiffer and durable yet they don't break as you would suspect they would.
Pros don't have the same problems we have, Mike Truhe stated on another forum that he receives a brand new kit before every major race, so obviously he doesn't encounter long term wear issues that the average joe will have.
Do yourself a favour and try the other brand, if you still prefer the Losi at least you can honestly decide based on your own experience.
Yes I am very serious. You can dibble and dabble all you want, the fact of the matter the better claimed car is not where to be found in the US. Where Im at there are alot of serious racers, which you will see if you come to Nats, but out of all the serious racers here, I have seen 2 drive an Xray.Only 2. Im not talking about newbies that run what ever the LHS tells them too, but guys that wrench everyday, race every weekend, I dont see alot. Watchin the Nitro Challenge - I didnt see many. Just like Honda or Toyota IMO makes a better car, you see alot on the road. Mugen has caught on here in the US and they are makin a push to be crowned with AE and Losi, I would have thought that because the Xray is so much better that the 3 time National Champion that I would see in on the podium more here in the US.... Im not saying its bad... I love my Losi and all the so called slop, that i just dont see, have not broken a part and never seen arms tweeked upward.... Call it what you want but I buy what proven not what looks better.
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Old 03-03-2010, 12:00 PM   #49
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Well,

If we try to understand all cars ( i trying from 2week but i m ever lost.. )

What is the good and poor of each car driven by a club/nat driver ?

Xray : Good : Very strong, easy to drive, lightweight, constant in laptime
Poor : not the fastest car in 1 lap, no a big support in US LHS

Mugen : Good : Very strong, Lightweight, fastest lap time
Poor : touchy to drive constant, ball steering system, flex chassis

Losi : Good : Strong, good overall fastest/constant laptime, big support in LHS, fly like a bird...
Poor : not the best quality parts, slop very fast, need a lot of time to maintaining

HB D8 : Good : strong, good overall laptime
Poor : need a lot of hop up to be fast, CVD problems, steering slop, heavy without hopup

AE : Good : strong, good foward traction, constant laptime
Poor : Heavy, jump like a rock, touchy when you drive fast, flip easy.

Anyone have other information to add ?

(in 2009 i owned a brand new HB D8, 8ight 2.0 and RC8B so i know what i m talking about )
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Old 03-03-2010, 12:03 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by geejay View Post
Yes I am very serious. You can dibble and dabble all you want, the fact of the matter the better claimed car is not where to be found in the US. Where Im at there are alot of serious racers, which you will see if you come to Nats, but out of all the serious racers here, I have seen 2 drive an Xray.Only 2. Im not talking about newbies that run what ever the LHS tells them too, but guys that wrench everyday, race every weekend, I dont see alot. Watchin the Nitro Challenge - I didnt see many. Just like Honda or Toyota IMO makes a better car, you see alot on the road. Mugen has caught on here in the US and they are makin a push to be crowned with AE and Losi, I would have thought that because the Xray is so much better that the 3 time National Champion that I would see in on the podium more here in the US.... Im not saying its bad... I love my Losi and all the so called slop, that i just dont see, have not broken a part and never seen arms tweeked upward.... Call it what you want but I buy what proven not what looks better.
What you consider "proven" is 1% car, and 99% marketing. Big marketing budgets allow you to build a big team, and bring in more national-caliber drivers. In the US, Losi/AE = bigger budgets, Mugen/XRay = smaller budgets.

All 4 cars that you mentioned are extremely competitive in the right hands. End of discussion. No need to debate this one any further.
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Old 03-03-2010, 05:52 PM   #51
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The funny thing for me is i have only driven an xray and a mugen.

I know not of this poor quality stuff. The bottom line with theese two companies is they will not put a product out unless it is top quality. I don't care if it's shock oil or wrenchs.

odonnell needs to be mentioned as well. Lots of those here where i am at and they seem to do very well.

one thing that is also funny to me is, i used to have a rc10 graphite about 15 years ago. It was the best quality car out then (ultima as well). When i got back into rc a little over a year ago, i automatically thought of associated. That is what i was going to get hands down.

Until i talked to some people and came on here

am i the only one that like PBS??? Very easy to adjust and greatest range of motion. There is also no slop in the steering.
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:07 PM   #52
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I love my losi. I like the mugen but I can't seem to get over the pillow ball setup. The 2.0 losi has much much less slop than the 1.0. What i see dominate at the telracks I go to are losi, losi, losi. I have had my 2.0 since it was 1st released. I was one of those all paid on the wait list and it has been a great truck. I started driving the buggy in august and I am starting to be able to actually drive it finally. The losi cars are strong, have great parts support and just work very well on the track. I am a little biased but my vote is for losi.
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:14 PM   #53
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The current World Champion (Hot Bodies D8) is not the best car. By Far. None of the cars are the best. Xray's are great cars if you wanna spend the money and have good parts. Losi and Associated (The United Slop mAchines) have slop that a lot of people can not handle.

The best car is the one your racing with, winning with, HAVING FUN WITH..

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Old 03-03-2010, 07:42 PM   #54
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its so true it depends on ur racing style i drive the sh z car and this thing is amazing i can keep up with all the mugen and beat some associated rc8s
pros: light, parts strong, cheap keaps up with expensive cars
cons: parts hard to come by not alot of people use them parts expensive
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Old 03-03-2010, 07:57 PM   #55
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i have ran mugen losi 2.0 zanma ae and now xray i can not comment on xray 10 spec yet because my upgrade kit isnt here why they are not popular in my opinion at local tracks is no set up support really out there and parts will have to be ordered. xray overseas is huge because that is where they sponsor at. there they win alot losi 2.0 is fabulous car but does get loose but is just as fast loose if dont mind working on car alot it is fast mugen didnt work for me. but is fast car just couldnt drive consistent ae broke quite often for me zan ma well short lived experience xray so far quality is good i bought one cause got deal on it and wanted to see if the 10 spec mods make it like a 2.0 losi that dosnt get loose so fast i want a car that drives similar to losi with out waring out so fast losi wins in the states because you can go on there web site down load a setup from one of the pros and know that your car is going to be as fast as you can drive it. not having to worry about set up helps alot which is what i am not liking about the x ray so far. most club racers dont want to find a setup they want to know they have a good set up already alah the losi ae and getting there mugen
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:14 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geejay View Post
Yes I am very serious. You can dibble and dabble all you want, the fact of the matter the better claimed car is not where to be found in the US. Where Im at there are alot of serious racers, which you will see if you come to Nats, but out of all the serious racers here, I have seen 2 drive an Xray.Only 2. Im not talking about newbies that run what ever the LHS tells them too, but guys that wrench everyday, race every weekend, I dont see alot. Watchin the Nitro Challenge - I didnt see many. Just like Honda or Toyota IMO makes a better car, you see alot on the road. Mugen has caught on here in the US and they are makin a push to be crowned with AE and Losi, I would have thought that because the Xray is so much better that the 3 time National Champion that I would see in on the podium more here in the US.... Im not saying its bad... I love my Losi and all the so called slop, that i just dont see, have not broken a part and never seen arms tweeked upward.... Call it what you want but I buy what proven not what looks better.
You're making decisions based on the stuff that you see and totaly disregarding everything else...
I'll have you know that in other parts of the world other brands dominate and Losi cars are nearly non existant...
local markets tend to gravitate towards the car that wins on a national level, In France for example, where Renaud savoya (mugen driver) has won the national championship 2 or 3 years in a row, you see races With 6 mugens in a 10 car field.
Losi wins all the races in my area so it must be the best... Wrong!!
Go to europe where Losi hardly wins anything and you will have a different vision of things.
HotBodies is the World champ, japanese champion (same driver) go figure...
Mugen is the current european Champion, French Champion and German champion (not 100% sure for german)
AE are the UK champs
Kyosho won the sweedish nats
It all comes down to having the best drivers on a given market.
The only place Losi really dominates is in the US with Drake and Truhe, you're basing yourself exclusively on this, that's kinda narrow minded really...
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:16 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by jewn_beef View Post
i have ran mugen losi 2.0 zanma ae and now xray i can not comment on xray 10 spec yet because my upgrade kit isnt here why they are not popular in my opinion at local tracks is no set up support really out there and parts will have to be ordered. xray overseas is huge because that is where they sponsor at. there they win alot losi 2.0 is fabulous car but does get loose but is just as fast loose if dont mind working on car alot it is fast mugen didnt work for me. but is fast car just couldnt drive consistent ae broke quite often for me zan ma well short lived experience xray so far quality is good i bought one cause got deal on it and wanted to see if the 10 spec mods make it like a 2.0 losi that dosnt get loose so fast i want a car that drives similar to losi with out waring out so fast losi wins in the states because you can go on there web site down load a setup from one of the pros and know that your car is going to be as fast as you can drive it. not having to worry about set up helps alot which is what i am not liking about the x ray so far. most club racers dont want to find a setup they want to know they have a good set up already alah the losi ae and getting there mugen
What are you talking about? Xray has an extensive forum where all there team drivers setups are readily available.
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:27 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by jewn_beef View Post
i have ran mugen losi 2.0 zanma ae and now xray i can not comment on xray 10 spec yet because my upgrade kit isnt here why they are not popular in my opinion at local tracks is no set up support really out there and parts will have to be ordered. xray overseas is huge because that is where they sponsor at. there they win alot losi 2.0 is fabulous car but does get loose but is just as fast loose if dont mind working on car alot it is fast mugen didnt work for me. but is fast car just couldnt drive consistent ae broke quite often for me zan ma well short lived experience xray so far quality is good i bought one cause got deal on it and wanted to see if the 10 spec mods make it like a 2.0 losi that dosnt get loose so fast i want a car that drives similar to losi with out waring out so fast losi wins in the states becauses you can go on there web site down load a setup from one of the pros and know that your car is going to be as fast as you can drive it. not having to worry about set up helps alot which is what i am not liking about the x ray so far. most club racers dont want to find a setup they want to know they have a good set up already alah the losi ae and getting there mugen
. Wat wer u saying the zan ma was a well short lived experince
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:36 PM   #59
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i didnt like the shocks and rear end being loose on it but have seen it go fast in other drivers hans and yes there is alot of euro setups for xray but not alot of socal drivers out there with them so is harder to find good set ups for mx style socal tracks that is all i am saying about that i am finding setup stuff just is not as easy as with ae or losi in socal either of them is very easy to find good setup for exact tracks i would run at xray stuff has been harder to find it is out there but not as readily availible but am getting it fig. out
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:53 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by gameholic2 View Post
You're making decisions based on the stuff that you see and totaly disregarding everything else...
I'll have you know that in other parts of the world other brands dominate and Losi cars are nearly non existant...
local markets tend to gravitate towards the car that wins on a national level, In France for example, where Renaud savoya (mugen driver) has won the national championship 2 or 3 years in a row, you see races With 6 mugens in a 10 car field.
Losi wins all the races in my area so it must be the best... Wrong!!
Go to europe where Losi hardly wins anything and you will have a different vision of things.
HotBodies is the World champ, japanese champion (same driver) go figure...
Mugen is the current european Champion, French Champion and German champion (not 100% sure for german)
AE are the UK champs
Kyosho won the sweedish nats
It all comes down to having the best drivers on a given market.
The only place Losi really dominates is in the US with Drake and Truhe, you're basing yourself exclusively on this, that's kinda narrow minded really...
I'm failing to see what you're getting at here. European and American tracks are vastly different. It would only make sense that different vehicles would perform differently. Losi and Associated are American based companies, their cars are designed to work on the type of track they're raced on the majority of the time. To insinuate the Losi isnt as good as brand X because they dont do well outside their market area is just as crazy as claiming one brand is better than the other.

I see all these claims about Drake making the difference. Would Xray do better in the results if he drove for them? If so, would this take any credibility away from Losi? All baseless claims that mean nothing. Flip a coin, chances are, the car is more capable that you'll ever be.
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